*** Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius) ***

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Comments

  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    2.) You get the attack tiles on a match, not with the number of special tiles you match. Example. I match 3 tiles that have 2 world rupture cd tiles in them. I don't get 2 x 2 for 4 attack tiles. I only get 2, it says whenever you make a match that includes special tiles. You won't get the attack tiles if you blow one up because of match 4 tile destruction line, it has to be in your match 4.
    The Recovery tile from XF Wolverine can be triggered by being in the same row as a match 4, even though the ability text says "matched" too.
    Recovery - Yellow 9 AP
    Wolverine's healing factor repairs his wounds, and he ferociously lashes out if interrupted. Places a 3-turn Yellow Countdown tile that heals for 1187 damage when activated. If the Countdown tile is matched, Wolverine destroys 6 random tiles, dealing 32 damage per tile. Does not generate AP.
    Level 2: Heals Wolverine for 1662 or deals 45 damage per tile.
    Level 3: Heals Wolverine for 2137 or deals 58 damage per tile. (Max: 4243 / 113)
    Level 4: Heals Wolverine for 3086 or deals 83 damage per tile. (Max: 6128 / 164)
    Level 5: Heals Wolverine for 4985 or destroys 9 tiles and deals 83 damage per tile.
    Max Level: Heals for 9989 or destroys 9 tiles and deals 164 damage per tile.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I'm suprised by the number of people wanting to build him 5/5/3. Everyone realizes that he creates attack tiles eattack.png not strike tiles strike.png? there's a biiiiigg diference. Its free damage, and having 2 139 attack tiles are nice, which with a strike tile can eat away. Is the consensus that green is so bad that I'm going to go 5/5/3 or is that people actually think that black makes strike tiles.

    Here are 2 things about black.
    ==========================
    1.) To clarify it makes attack tiles not strike tiles
    2.) You get the attack tiles on a match, not with the number of special tiles you match. Example. I match 3 tiles that have 2 world rupture cd tiles in them. I don't get 2 x 2 for 4 attack tiles. I only get 2, it says whenever you make a match that includes special tiles. You won't get the attack tiles if you blow one up because of match 4 tile destruction line, it has to be in your match 4.

    Yes, i believe green is that bad. I would rather get 2 attack tiles on an ability that i know will activate than +2 turns of stun and +2 ap denial on an 11(!) ap ability that im never going to cast (exact same reasoning as fastball special)
  • A straight line of destroyed tiles is considered a "match" by everyone but Hawkeye. I'm pretty sure random tile destruction will not trigger the X-Force tile.

    The main argument for 5/5/3 is that his green is terrible. I was leaning 5/4/4 but then, and you could get away with that build probably, but his green is just awful. So so awful.

    If his green is intentionally bad so as to be used by a level 350 PvE guy and not be world ending that isn't great game design.

    @NorthernPolarity, you are right not every ability can be CtS or RotP, but this ability can't even SEE those abilities from where it's standing. If you took 7 AP off it, and all the damage out, made it 5 green to rando stun a guy and kill a CD tile, it would be a good utility ability. The poor amount of damage for the increased cost makes it terrible. Heck, you could make it cost 8 and I'd still value it more than the 12 for damage ability. Hybrid abilities tend to be bad because they do 2 things half way for a terrible cost. Either make it a utility power or a damage power, not both. Or increase the damage to be at least on par with Wind Storm.
  • IlDuderino
    IlDuderino Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
    For those already well in 3* land I can see that this guy has his uses, though I feel bad for anyone transitioning who ends up with Octavius, Beast, She-Hulk etc as their first usable 3*
  • Yes, i believe green is that bad. I would rather get 2 attack tiles on an ability that i know will activate than +2 turns of stun and +2 ap denial on an 11(!) ap ability that im never going to cast (exact same reasoning as fastball special)
    It's 12 AP. icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lerysh wrote:
    Hybrid abilities tend to be bad because they do 2 things half way for a terrible cost. Either make it a utility power or a damage power, not both. Or increase the damage to be at least on par with Wind Storm.

    There are more decent to really good hybrid builds out there
    =======================================================
    Human Torch--5/4/4
    Captain Marvel--4/5/4
    Colossus--4/5/4
    Daken---5/4/4
    Daredevil---4/4/5
    Falcon--5/4/4
    IM40--5/4/4
    Storm--4/5/4
    Patch--4/4/5
    Ares--4/4/5
    OBW--multiple hybrids 5/4/4, 4/5/4
    Storm(classic) 5/4/4

    Some of these are just as good if not better than max 2 builds and some just don't matter
  • CrookedKnight
    CrookedKnight Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hybrid abilities as in a single power with two "major" effects (damage, stun, finely targeted tile change/destruction, etc), not a hybrid build.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hybrid abilities as in a single power with two "major" effects (damage, stun, finely targeted tile change/destruction, etc), not a hybrid build.


    ahh. Well what about

    Surgical Strike
    Avenger's Assemble
    Escaple Plan
    Hypersonic Punch
    Molotov Cocktail
    Intimidation
    Psi-Katana

    Intersting how most are black.hmmmm
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Hybrid abilities as in a single power with two "major" effects (damage, stun, finely targeted tile change/destruction, etc), not a hybrid build.


    ahh. Well what about

    Surgical Strike
    Avenger's Assemble
    Escaple Plan
    Hypersonic Punch
    Molotov Cocktail
    Intimidation
    Psi-Katana

    Intersting how most are black.hmmmm

    Sounds vaguely racist
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    Just got to read all of his abilities at max. He is not anti sentry he is anti Mohawk Storm. More precisely and anti hailstorm. They must be getting ready to change Storm....again... just a thought does anybody even use Mohawk Storm on a regular basis??

    From a story line perspective I can see the next PVE have villians buffed and Storm will definatly be on the other side and the DR will be your only defense against HAILSTORM!!!! D3 has seen how deadly and broken 1* storm used to be and feel having her be the enemy will show how strong Storm really is and that you need the Dr to defete her!!! icon_rolleyes.gificon_lol.gif
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    Are you ready for the best use of Green AP in the game!!! This green slices, it dices, if it was a real thing it would also clean the dishes for you. Some people think the Dr green is week? Let me tell you does any green in the game do as many things as the good Dr?

    Look at the damage he does to the ennemy team!! 783 AOE damage: Think about it this way an AOE attack that won't make Hulk Angry icon_cool.gif You don't need special blue tiles like beast's green to get an effect like this!!

    But wait there is more...

    3 turn stun- finally I can stun icon_beast.pngicon_blackwidow.pngicon_daredevil.pngicon_invisiblewoman.pngicon_ironman.pngicon_storm.pngicon_hammer.pngicon_maggia.pngicon_bro8.pngicon_yelena.png when they are not in front icon_redface.gif Don't worry about choosing who you want to stun the Dr will choose for you. He is a briliant sicentest don't you know!!

    But wait there is more...

    5 enemy AP destroyed- What color don't they need? ATTACK!!! icon_e_wink.gif. Look AP denile is the name of the game and the DR can do it. Late in the game and your ennemie is about to fire off a huge power you have a 17% chance that they won't be able to attack you. May the odds be ever in your favor!

    But wait theres more...

    Countdown tile destroyed- I am taking you down Sentry icon_razz.gif World rupture will be a think of the past as the Dr will garuntee 1 CD to be destroyed. What 15 more CD? the Dr is too busy doing other things to worry about the other 15.

    Where can you find a green power that will do more than the DR. This power can be yours at level 5 for 4 easy instalments of 1250 HP after you win the first cover!! For all of those who act now D3 will be running a special event where you can win some extra green covers for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Hybrid abilities as in a single power with two "major" effects (damage, stun, finely targeted tile change/destruction, etc), not a hybrid build.


    ahh. Well what about

    Surgical Strike
    Avenger's Assemble
    Escaple Plan
    Hypersonic Punch
    Molotov Cocktail
    Intimidation
    Psi-Katana

    Intersting how most are black.hmmmm

    You forgot Photonic Blasts.

    Escape Plan, Molotov Cocktail, Psi-Katana are not hybrid skills. They are damage skills. They do damage using in game elements of strike.png or attack.png but they are still 100% damage.

    Surgical Strike is a special breed, it's a hybrid skill that is awesome. Does buckets of damage, drains AP, gives you AP, has a big but not outrageous cost, the perfect example of what all hybrid skill should strive to be.

    Hypersonic Punch's damage per AP is 279, aka terrible. The reason this skill is at 5 is because Photonic Blasts is also terrible and redflag.png has more competition so redflag.png gets less covers.

    Avenger's Assemble, Photonic Blasts, and Intimidation are ALL, the 3's of the 5/5/3 builds for those particular characters. (Unless you use Sentry/Hood in which case you don't care about Hood's damage, but the utility of his hybrid power becomes worth 9 AP). The reason for this is simple, hybrid powers are bad. Unless you are getting a bonus for no cost, as the case with Surgical Strike.

    Armed and Dangerous' Damage/AP ratio is so laughably bad (195 per AP at 3 targets) that it should be taken out all together and the support ability of the power should be increased, or the AP cost reduced. I would build Otto 5/3/5 in a heartbeat if his green could A) Destroy more than 1 CD consistently, or 2) Cost 6 green, did no damage, and had a higher AP drain to replace the levels where damage boosts happen.

    Armed and Dangerous - Green 8 AP
    The fury of Doctor Octopus is unleashed as his metal arms strike, constrict and mangle all his opponents at once. Stuns a random enemy for 1 turn, reduces enemy AP in their strongest color by 3, and destroys a random enemy Countdown tile.
    Level Upgrades
      Level 2: Stuns a random enemy for 2 turns Level 3: Destroys 5 AP of the enemy's strongest color. Level 4: Stuns a random enemy for 3 turns. Level 5: Destroys All AP of the enemy's strongest color.
    Max Level: 783 damage to enemy team, 3 turn stun, 5 enemy AP destroyed, 1 Countdown tile destroyed
    This is a functional power. It works OK at 3 but provides a nice boost at 5. Fluff needs to be rewritten, maybe renamed because it no longer attacks, but it only does one thing, and does it well. This would also let Otto fight Sentry, as you take greentile.png and then use that to destroy his redtile.png, giving you time to implement your game plan against him.

    Armed and Dangerous - Green 12 AP
    The fury of Doctor Octopus is unleashed as his metal arms strike, constrict and mangle all his opponents at once. Deals 182ish damage to all enemies, then stuns a random enemy for 1 turn.
    Level Upgrades
      Level 2: Deals 50% more damage to the enemy team. Level 3: Deals 50% more damage to the enemy team. Level 4: Deals 50% more damage to the enemy team. Level 5: Stuns a random enemy for 2 turns.
    Max Level: 2066 damage to enemy team, 2 turn stun
    This power is also functional. It isn't the same damage as CtS or Sniper Rifle, but it can at least SEE those champions of destruction from where it's standing. And a free 2 turn stun isn't too shabby on top. Even as I wrote it up here to a "tolerable" level tho, it's still kinda worse than Wind Storm so...

    Why is his green destroying a CD anyway? Isn't that what his blue is for? If you want to toss that little extra in there, as a "this is how Otto rolls" distiction, then it needs to not affect the power's AP cost. The problem lies with the concept that all powers have to somehow be distinct from each other and thus ways of doing damage get more and more complex. There is no reason to tack on these bells and whistles just to give the power distinction. Actually, considering a power than just does X damage to the enemy team without any other attachments whatsoever doesn't exist, it would be fine to just have this power be CtS light and do 2200 to 2500 team damage, the end. If you want the stun for "tentacle constriciton" or whatever, then just copy Wind Storm. I promise, that the power works almost identically to an existing power but in a different color and for 3* damage won't make anybody angry.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lerysh wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Hybrid abilities as in a single power with two "major" effects (damage, stun, finely targeted tile change/destruction, etc), not a hybrid build.


    ahh. Well what about

    Surgical Strike
    Avenger's Assemble
    Escaple Plan
    Hypersonic Punch
    Molotov Cocktail
    Intimidation
    Psi-Katana

    Intersting how most are black.hmmmm

    You forgot Photonic Blasts.

    Escape Plan, Molotov Cocktail, Psi-Katana are not hybrid skills. They are damage skills. They do damage using in game elements of strike.png or attack.png but they are still 100% damage.

    Surgical Strike is a special breed, it's a hybrid skill that is awesome. Does buckets of damage, drains AP, gives you AP, has a big but not outrageous cost, the perfect example of what all hybrid skill should strive to be.

    Hypersonic Punch's damage per AP is 279, aka terrible. The reason this skill is at 5 is because Photonic Blasts is also terrible and redflag.png has more competition so redflag.png gets less covers.

    Avenger's Assemble, Photonic Blasts, and Intimidation are ALL, the 3's of the 5/5/3 builds for those particular characters. (Unless you use Sentry/Hood in which case you don't care about Hood's damage, but the utility of his hybrid power becomes worth 9 AP). The reason for this is simple, hybrid powers are bad. Unless you are getting a bonus for no cost, as the case with Surgical Strike.

    Armed and Dangerous' Damage/AP ratio is so laughably bad (195 per AP at 3 targets) that it should be taken out all together and the support ability of the power should be increased, or the AP cost reduced. I would build Otto 5/3/5 in a heartbeat if his green could A) Destroy more than 1 CD consistently, or 2) Cost 6 green, did no damage, and had a higher AP drain to replace the levels where damage boosts happen.

    Armed and Dangerous - Green 8 AP
    The fury of Doctor Octopus is unleashed as his metal arms strike, constrict and mangle all his opponents at once. Stuns a random enemy for 1 turn, reduces enemy AP in their strongest color by 3, and destroys a random enemy Countdown tile.
    Level Upgrades
      Level 2: Stuns a random enemy for 2 turns Level 3: Destroys 5 AP of the enemy's strongest color. Level 4: Stuns a random enemy for 3 turns. Level 5: Destroys All AP of the enemy's strongest color.
    Max Level: 783 damage to enemy team, 3 turn stun, 5 enemy AP destroyed, 1 Countdown tile destroyed
    This is a functional power. It works OK at 3 but provides a nice boost at 5. Fluff needs to be rewritten, maybe renamed because it no longer attacks, but it only does one thing, and does it well. This would also let Otto fight Sentry, as you take greentile.png and then use that to destroy his redtile.png, giving you time to implement your game plan against him.

    Armed and Dangerous - Green 12 AP
    The fury of Doctor Octopus is unleashed as his metal arms strike, constrict and mangle all his opponents at once. Deals 182ish damage to all enemies, then stuns a random enemy for 1 turn.
    Level Upgrades
      Level 2: Deals 50% more damage to the enemy team. Level 3: Deals 50% more damage to the enemy team. Level 4: Deals 50% more damage to the enemy team. Level 5: Stuns a random enemy for 2 turns.
    Max Level: 2066 damage to enemy team, 2 turn stun
    This power is also functional. It isn't the same damage as CtS or Sniper Rifle, but it can at least SEE those champions of destruction from where it's standing. And a free 2 turn stun isn't too shabby on top. Even as I wrote it up here to a "tolerable" level tho, it's still kinda worse than Wind Storm so...

    Why is his green destroying a CD anyway? Isn't that what his blue is for? If you want to toss that little extra in there, as a "this is how Otto rolls" distiction, then it needs to not affect the power's AP cost. The problem lies with the concept that all powers have to somehow be distinct from each other and thus ways of doing damage get more and more complex. There is no reason to tack on these bells and whistles just to give the power distinction. Actually, considering a power than just does X damage to the enemy team without any other attachments whatsoever doesn't exist, it would be fine to just have this power be CtS light and do 2200 to 2500 team damage, the end. If you want the stun for "tentacle constriciton" or whatever, then just copy Wind Storm. I promise, that the power works almost identically to an existing power but in a different color and for 3* damage won't make anybody angry.

    Just from a design perspective, I'm pretty sure they designed blue to deal with massive amount of relatively low power tiles (hailstorm, WR, etc) because it's too inconsistent to hit a single, important CD tile. That's why the green hits CD tiles: to give doc ock a more rounded ability set for dealing with all forms of special tiles as it can specifically snipe cd tiles.
  • Which is cool, great even, as long as it doesn't up the relative cost of the power to do so. If you gave me an exact copy of Windstorm that also destroyed a CD tile, for 12 green, I'm in.

    (Why do you quote posts right above your post man, your 2 sentence point got really really long when I read my whole post again)
  • Pwuz_
    Pwuz_ Posts: 1,186 Chairperson of the Boards
    wymtime wrote:
    Are you ready for the best use of Green AP in the game!!! This green slices, it dices, if it was a real thing it would also clean the dishes for you. Some people think the Dr green is week? Let me tell you does any green in the game do as many things as the good Dr?

    Look at the damage he does to the ennemy team!! 783 AOE damage: Think about it this way an AOE attack that won't make Hulk Angry icon_cool.gif You don't need special blue tiles like beast's green to get an effect like this!!

    But wait there is more...

    3 turn stun- finally I can stun icon_beast.pngicon_blackwidow.pngicon_daredevil.pngicon_invisiblewoman.pngicon_ironman.pngicon_storm.pngicon_hammer.pngicon_maggia.pngicon_bro8.pngicon_yelena.png when they are not in front icon_redface.gif Don't worry about choosing who you want to stun the Dr will choose for you. He is a briliant sicentest don't you know!!

    But wait there is more...

    5 enemy AP destroyed- What color don't they need? ATTACK!!! icon_e_wink.gif. Look AP denile is the name of the game and the DR can do it. Late in the game and your ennemie is about to fire off a huge power you have a 17% chance that they won't be able to attack you. May the odds be ever in your favor!

    But wait theres more...

    Countdown tile destroyed- I am taking you down Sentry icon_razz.gif World rupture will be a think of the past as the Dr will garuntee 1 CD to be destroyed. What 15 more CD? the Dr is too busy doing other things to worry about the other 15.

    Where can you find a green power that will do more than the DR. This power can be yours at level 5 for 4 easy instalments of 1250 HP after you win the first cover!! For all of those who act now D3 will be running a special event where you can win some extra green covers for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

    billy-mays,A-C-212916-13.jpg
  • I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not that crazy about Doc Ock. I thought they would have put more thought into his abilities. I'll be playing the story just because I know he's going to be needed for future events. But, he's really not someone I'm going to waste ISO on to build. Pretty disappointed... icon_e_confused.gificon_e_confused.gificon_e_confused.gificon_e_confused.gificon_e_confused.gificon_e_confused.gif
  • emaker27
    emaker27 Posts: 285 Mover and Shaker
    He seems extremely situational and mostly for PvE. Because in PvP there are plenty of strong characters that don't put down special tiles, rendering 2 of his powers completely useless; leaving him with a very weak and semi unpredictable 3rd power. Sure you can use him to attack those Sentry players, but you've opened yourself up to a 200 point loss as others attack that weak team.

    I'd put him a little below Falcon. There are uses, but not many.
  • Unknown
    edited January 2015
    I really wish they wouldn't make such hyper-situational abilities, because they're tuning them such that they're basically worthless outside of those specific situations. We saw it with Captain Marvel's red, and now Doc Ock is cranking that up to 11.

    The fundamental problem is that in PvP, you will be attacked by other people, and you have no control over what team they use. So it's not a case of "I'm gonna attack this guy and use Doctor Octopus because it'll counter his characters". Instead, it's "Doctor Octopus would be handy for this specific match-up, but if I use him, I'll be a giant target for other attackers and lose even more points than I would gain".

    Unless they fundamentally redesign the way that PvP works such that you don't lose points on being attacked, having counter-pick characters like Doctor Octopus simply doesn't work.

    And even apart from that, his powers are pretty thoroughly mediocre to begin with. Destroying 5 AP from a single color that you can't even choose? Swapping 8 pairs of tiles and praying that it hits special tiles? Stunning a random target? Blowing up a random countdown tile?

    His abilities aren't just situational, they're providing relatively lackluster effects that are stuffed full of RNG. I wouldn't even consider him as a counter-pick in PvP because I can't rely on his powers to do anything I want them to.
  • Where do I start my petition for a Superior Spider-Man reskin?
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Where do I start my petition for a Superior Spider-Man reskin?
    When you find it, let me know.