Character rankings 9/14 edition: voting ended

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  • WobbyWobby Age Unconfirmed Posts: 286 Mover and Shaker
    Update -- I'm back from vacation and trying hard to catch up with real life (grinding for Fury in the Heroic PvE didn't help), having finished only about a quarter of the writeups. I'll keep plugging away but it'll realistically be at least another week if not more. I'll post a new thread once it happens.

    Thanks for your patience! We have some new stuff in this version of the results so hopefully it will be worth the wait.

    Boooo real life!

    bluecrit.png purplecrit.png whitecrit.png yellowcrit.png
  • Pwuz_Pwuz_ Posts: 1,167 Chairperson of the Boards
    Update -- I'm back from vacation and trying hard to catch up with real life (grinding for Fury in the Heroic PvE didn't help), having finished only about a quarter of the writeups. I'll keep plugging away but it'll realistically be at least another week if not more. I'll post a new thread once it happens.

    Thanks for your patience! We have some new stuff in this version of the results so hopefully it will be worth the wait.

    Thanks for the update.

    We all appreciate your hard work.
  • Thanks for the hard work, we appreciate it!

    Oh, and go ahead and slot Devil Dino into the top slot icon_e_smile.gif Unless they make BagDino icon_eek.gif
  • vudu3vudu3 Posts: 928 Critical Contributor
    I'll keep plugging away but it'll realistically be at least another week if not more.
    I know what's going on here ... he's sharing the results with his alliance members so they can get a head start on everyone else!

    Pst, hey guys! Consensus is that X-Force and Sentry are pretty good. Put some ISO into them before everyone else finds out!
  • Question, either for mischief or the general forum: Would separating the one and two stars from this list and forming a second list work as well as an individual 1/2 star vote?

    My personal opinion is that it would show the same results, and then we wouldn't need two votes but rather just two posts. I don't think there would be any surprise or even necessarily value in doing it, but it's worth considering.
  • I don't vote for this because I don't have enough personal experience on 3* and above rarities. I'm pretty knowledgeable about 2* though. You should separate the list as 1-2 and 3-4 star.png chars and also have one unified list for OP players (like the one you have now).
  • Pwuz_Pwuz_ Posts: 1,167 Chairperson of the Boards
    Question, either for mischief or the general forum: Would separating the one and two stars from this list and forming a second list work as well as an individual 1/2 star vote?

    My personal opinion is that it would show the same results, and then we wouldn't need two votes but rather just two posts. I don't think there would be any surprise or even necessarily value in doing it, but it's worth considering.

    IF the game were well balanced, then the split would be along the star.png lines, then OBW wouldn't rank higher than MOST 3* characters (and Invisible Woman).

    Seeing that OBW is the most powerful 2* character says a lot of how awesome she is. Seeing that OBW is more powerful than many 3* characters says she's broken.
  • Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. Her utility is amazing, and a lot of 3 stars are just bad. You're right that the game isn't perfectly balanced, because yes, it would go by stars if it was.

    The thing is I'm not sure it's about balance (concerning OBW, not the 3 stars) but rather a lack of a similar-character in the 3 star range. While there are characters that have denial or healing in the 3 star range, they simply do not have the net worth in support that OBW offers. Spiderman could maybe fill that gap if he wasn't so meh, but he doesn't have denial, he has prevention (less useful). Another example is Hood: great for denial and speed, but he won't stop countdowns like OBW could after they've been placed.

    She just hits such a sweet spot in terms of utility. She's less of a problem than the high damage characters, though. They set the bar as to what is/is not good damage, thus forcing characters who can't put up great damage quickly/for low ap into a low tier (Daredevil). Ares (or Thor-Lite) is a great example for this argument: why the hell is a 2 star better at damage (through abilities) than ANY three star?

    In short, I think it's the 3 stars that aren't balanced well rather than OBW. I don't think she'll rank as highly this round thanks to True Healing but we'll see, yea?
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    I could see myself running oBW in _Versus_ prior to level shift despite the fake healing change since she would still be fairly close to squishier 3*s (Hood had some 4k+ health prior to level shift, standard characters like Magneto/Patch/Punisher/Daken had 5800 health which oBW could take on), but not after the level shift. She's not broken; it's just the better half of the 3*s that suck outside of PvE.
  • Pwuz_ wrote:
    Question, either for mischief or the general forum: Would separating the one and two stars from this list and forming a second list work as well as an individual 1/2 star vote?

    My personal opinion is that it would show the same results, and then we wouldn't need two votes but rather just two posts. I don't think there would be any surprise or even necessarily value in doing it, but it's worth considering.

    IF the game were well balanced, then the split would be along the star.png lines, then OBW wouldn't rank higher than MOST 3* characters (and Invisible Woman).

    Seeing that OBW is the most powerful 2* character says a lot of how awesome she is. Seeing that OBW is more powerful than many 3* characters says she's broken.
    OBW may be ranked above quite a few 3 stars, but that doesn't mean she's "More powerful" or better than those 3 stars on any given team.

    Part of this list is looking at value versus rarity.

    What I mean by that is:
    In the June 14th rankings, OBW was ranked at 7th, ahead of Hood, Hulk, Lazy Cap, Sentry, HT, Psylocke, Falcon, GSBW, Spider man, Doctor Doom, Rags, Invisible Woman, Loki, Daredevil and Xforce.

    Now, she was better than some of those characters, like Daredevil and Xforce(at the time), but for most of those characters, she was ranked ahead of them because, as a 2 star character, she was someone you wanted to level and build your 2 star team with.

    Since you can't skip the 2 star phase, unless you just purchase a 3 star team, OBW is more valuable than those lower tier 3 star characters. Not because she is, apples to apples, stronger or more useful. But more because of how strong she is for how rare (or not rare) she is.

    Look at any person's roster. Chances are they have a max level OBW. Not because she is better than having a max leveled 3 star, but because she was essential before 3 stars were available to most players.

    I am well into the 3 star phase of the game now (3 maxed level, 4 more over level 125, 2 of which have max covers) and I am well aware of who the good 3 star characters are. I have many 3 stars with near max covers but I don't level them because they wouldn't improve my team at all, like Psylocke and Punisher. Compared to the top tier 3 star characters, these characters are not worth the iso to level up to 166, just to be ignored for Daken, Patch, Hulk, Cap, Thor etc.

    However, if you told me I could sell OBW and they would instantly become level 166, I would do it. Because any level 166 character is better than any level 94 character, with a few notable exceptions, such as Daredevil.

    Case in point:

    If you have a team of Character X + Character Y + OBW, chances are substituting OBW with Hood, Hulk, Cap, Sentry, HT, Psylocke etc would make that team better. It's simply the ISO barrier that keeps lower tier 3 stars from being more common place.
  • vudu3 wrote:
    I'll keep plugging away but it'll realistically be at least another week if not more.
    I know what's going on here ... he's sharing the results with his alliance members so they can get a head start on everyone else!

    Pst, hey guys! Consensus is that X-Force and Sentry are pretty good. Put some ISO into them before everyone else finds out!
    Pretty sure everyone and their mother knows that Xforce and Sentry will be, if not 1 and 2, both in the top 5 for this list.

    Now, if you were to say this about Captain Marvel and Deadpool, I could see your logic.

    But for the most part, the top 12 is set in stone. The only thing to determine is what order they sit in. My personal opinion:

    Sentry
    Xforce
    Nick Fury
    Lazy Thor
    Black Panther
    Hood
    Lazy Daken
    Lazy Cap
    Hulk
    Captain Marvel
    Magneto
    Deadpool
  • I'm pretty sure Patch will be in the top 10. I don't see deadpool and Captain Marvel being in the top 12. People haven't been ranking Human Torch very high or so it seems. He is better than Hulk, Captain Marvel, & Deadpool on offense not so good on defense. I'm not sure what the % should be for offense counting more than defense but in 40 battles in a pvp I'm attacked 5 to 10 times. That's 80% - 90% score impacted by wins against losses. No one can control how many points you lose while being attacked and maybe I get attacked less because of the level of the certain teams I use. The majority of the time you want the best offensive team you have climbing up the ranks. What to do with Human torch tinykitty health, let someone tank for him (I didn't level mine up all the way with all of his covers Patch & Daken still tank for him). Maybe more people worry about defense than I know about but there is no way they should be weighed evenly in character rankings.
  • I'm pretty sure Patch will be in the top 10. I don't see deadpool and Captain Marvel being in the top 12. People haven't been ranking Human Torch very high or so it seems. He is better than Hulk, Captain Marvel, & Deadpool on offense not so good on defense. I'm not sure what the % should be for offense counting more than defense but in 40 battles in a pvp I'm attacked 5 to 10 times. That's 80% - 90% score impacted by wins against losses. No one can control how many points you lose while being attacked and maybe I get attacked less because of the level of the certain teams I use. The majority of the time you want the best offensive team you have climbing up the ranks. What to do with Human torch tinykitty health, let someone tank for him (I didn't level mine up all the way with all of his covers Patch & Daken still tank for him). Maybe more people worry about defense than I know about but there is no way they should be weighed evenly in character rankings.
    Patch may be in the top 10. I personally think he went down on the list when Magneto was nerfed.

    He doesn't have that many great pairings anymore. Doesn't fit with Sentry, Hulk, Thor or Cap. If you pair him with Hood or Deadpool, you're missing a tank. He is a good match with Daken and Black Panther, but ultimately he is pretty hard to match well in teams.

    I personally weigh characters on a 75/25 split between defense and offense, respectively.

    Offense is never a bad thing, but you can win with pretty much anyone in this game. Defense, on the other hand... Anyone can beat your team. And unless you have a Sentry, X force, LThor or Hulk to deter people from attacking you or even occasionally losing to you, you'll be attacked constantly once you get around 600.

    Teams that are all offense are so easy to beat when you're attacking them. And unless you plan on being shielded for every second past 600 or 700 points, defense is far more important to climbing.
  • Pwuz_Pwuz_ Posts: 1,167 Chairperson of the Boards
    onimus wrote:
    Patch may be in the top 10. I personally think he went down on the list when Magneto was nerfed.

    He doesn't have that many great pairings anymore. Doesn't fit with Sentry, Hulk, Thor or Cap. If you pair him with Hood or Deadpool, you're missing a tank. He is a good match with Daken and Black Panther, but ultimately he is pretty hard to match well in teams.

    I think you're right for this set of rankings, but during this PvE, I think I've found him a great partner in Doc Ock. It's certainly nice when you plan to use Berserker Rage so that you've got a few purple matches lined up, and then those purple matches spit out an extra attack tile. Very effective.

    This could change depending on the next wave of characters getting released, but I think Patch will make a rebound in the December rankings thanks to Doc Ock.
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    *spits her tea all over the room*
    Doc Ock will make Patch more viable?
    Doc Ock?
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    On a more serious note, true healers are going to be valuable regardless of much else, and Patch does have strong if expensive/risky abilities.
  • HairyDaveHairyDave Posts: 1,574
    Patch is still top 10 easy. You just need to modify how he's used - no more Berserk + spam attacks for the win.
  • Look at any person's roster. Chances are they have a max level OBW. Not because she is better than having a max leveled 3 star, but because she was essential before 3 stars were available to most players.

    Oh wow, yeah. I hadn't really considered that point of view: that a character's ranking could reflect not their utility inside of end game (3/4 star range) but rather their utility in the game overall. She absolutely out-ranks most 3 stars and 2 stars because she's so valuable to the budding 2 star and transitioning player-base, much like Storm and M-Widow.

    Interesting.

    With that logic she should be a top ten character for suresies.

    Thanks for the insight.
  • Patch's regen makes him top 5 for me; he's absolutely essential for sustained play. The big difference is that I think 3/5/5 is now his ideal build, since it makes the enemy strike tiles much more manageable.
  • Ben Grimm wrote:
    Patch's regen makes him top 5 for me; he's absolutely essential for sustained play. The big difference is that I think 3/5/5 is now his ideal build, since it makes the enemy strike tiles much more manageable.
    I won't deny one bit that Patch is great for sustained play.

    In the Black Panther PVP, I just climbed from 0 to 550 with him and Daken and didn't use a single health pack. The only reason I stopped is because you don't want to be too high with a day and a half left to go.

    But at my last fight, I substituted Patch for Hulk.

    Because Patch is terrible on defense.

    He literally throws the game for your team on defense. I cannot count how many times I've instant KO'd an enemy team just by putting hulk in front of Patch and waiting for berserker's rage.

    You may be straying away from it on offense, but your AI isn't.

    And that's why I couldn't justify him being in the top 5 or 10. He is too risky once you get into competitive play. He is strong when you're matched up against level 94 teams and he saves you a lot of health packs (before I had patch, I could get maybe 300 on my first run before I ran out of packs for Hulk).

    And, as you've eluded, his green is weird because you don't really want to use it unless a) there are several purple matches available to quickly eliminate their tiles or b)they will die from the rage and subsequent matches.

    a) is just by random chance and b) is bad because you should be able to use your abilities throughout the game, not just at the very end.

    The problem is, I don't really think 3/5/5 is the answer either. Because 14 red is just difficult to come by. If I power farm it, I can get it after one person is downed, maybe. But ultimately, that cuts out a large part of his offense. Plus, what AI will ever farm 14 red?

    He has a lot of pros, such as saving health packs, but he also has a lot of cons. The top 5 seems like a stretch to me. He may be top 10, based on how people feel about his drawbacks, but I think he is 13th or 14th in the game. Still very strong. But not strong enough to garner a top 10 spot.
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