PVE Reward Structure

Unknown

atomzed wrote:

Also, now that the progression reward is so easy to get now, it's almost a 3* cover for anyone who participated.

I have to agree with this. That is why I said "Except the two last PVEs". And I have also made a comment on the Deadpool VS MPQ page about how nice it is to actually drop rubberband to minimum and remove the need to play the last hours of the event. So finally something is happening in the PVE department.

There are many suggestions and they all have pros and cons. The important aspect is that the devs are trying to do something about it.

Nellyson

simonsez wrote:

Nellyson wrote:

I remember one event, I think it was Falcon covers, but I had over 80K+ and took somewhere in the 20-50 region. My buddy, who was obviously in a different bracket had about 35-45K, but took first.

There's no way in hell you two joined your brackets at the same time. The only way this scenario is even remotely possible, is if it was a 9 day event and he skipped the first 3 subs and started playing on the last day.

Nellyson wrote:

I say this because it was incredibly infuriating that I had about a 10% chance of getting all 3 Colossus covers. Shouldn't that be a 100% chance?

No! But I'm glad one of you "PvE shouldn't be competitive" people finally confirmed what I've always been assuming... you want to turn it into something like an "everyone gets a trophy" little league.

No actually he didn't. I don't remember the event, but it wasn't one of the long ones. Also, yeah, that's exactly what I want. Trophies for all! No, I said you could make the cover progression as high as you want, but everyone should have a chance to get it. Chance for everyone and not just the top 150 people. By making it a progression instead of ranking you in a bracket, you give yourself that chance to get it, rather than hoping you do better than someone else. If you want to make it competitive, then make the rewards different instead of the new character. Make it the last character that was released so people still want those covers. Especially since they make the new character the essential 100% of the time in the next event, why can't everyone get it and not just the top 100-150 people in each bracket? Does that sound right? This is not about everyone getting a trophy because they would still have to make it to that progression. Not everyone can do that unless they put in the time to do it. That way if everyone can get them, they'll have to open up roster spots. And honestly, why is PVE supposed to be competitive anyways? Isn't that what PVP is for?

Unknown

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but why can't PVE play just like the Prologue? PVE events are supposed to be a story. Why can't random covers be given out at certain points in the story like they are in the Prologue? Thor, Wolvie, and Storm were given out in the Prologue. I understand that new characters probably can't be given out to the same extent that those were, but my line of thinking is that if you can get through the entire story, then you should get a nice reward. When any new character is released through PVE, make it so that you get 1 random cover of the new character if you complete all the nodes in the story and leave getting the rest of the covers from token pulls and PVP.

*edit: The only issue with this approach is that Demiurge won't have the benefit of community nor personal scaling. They would have to change the way PVE works to be based off your roster strength in order to make the PVE challenging enough for every player.

Unknown

Mondo wrote:

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but why can't PVE play just like the Prologue? PVE events are supposed to be a story. Why can't random covers be given out at certain points in the story like they are in the Prologue? Thor, Wolvie, and Storm were given out in the Prologue. I understand that new characters probably can't be given out to the same extent that those were, but my line of thinking is that if you can get through the entire story, then you should get a nice reward. When any new character is released through PVE, make it so that you get 1 random cover of the new character if you complete all the nodes in the story and leave getting the rest of the covers from token pulls and PVP.

*edit: The only issue with this approach is that Demiurge won't have the benefit of community nor personal scaling. They would have to change the way PVE works to be based off your roster strength in order to make the PVE challenging enough for every player.

They tried it with the hulk and it seemed to work. Also there is the hp you get from the current deadpool node.

Nellyson

They do need more prologue story. Something you can play whenever you want. No time limit. No end day. No brackets. That would be nice.

FadeToOne

I think giving everybody a pile of tokens every PvE is a bit much, but there are definitely things that can be improved in how PvE works. The simple fact that the concept of "rubber banding" even exists should be proof enough that there is a fundamental problem here. When it comes down to it, PvE is a timing based system. You play the nodes at the right times, you get a cookie. Someone plays a ton but still gets overtaken by people that played a little at the right times. If I was somebody who spent 10 hours a day for a month leveling up some demon warlock llama character to level 75 in WoW, I'd be pretty irritated if some other guy only played 1 hour per week and managed to also have a level 75 demon warlock llama after a month. I realize that's not quite the same thing, and this is a mobile game, and all that... and I certainly don't have a good alternative idea... but that doesn't mean we should all just accept what the current format is like sheep, particularly if we've been playing the game longer than other people and feel entitled to think our opinion is the right one.

While we're at it, PvP isn't perfect either. A guy can get in an early season bracket and do pretty well, only to get in the 50-100 ranking and get 5 tokens, whereas some lazy player could jump in late in the season, play about as well, and pull a top 25 pretty easily and get 20 tokens for substantially less effort. You could argue that the first guy got more covers from the extra events he played, but given how the bracket system works for both PvP and PvE, the game is rewarding luck instead of effort.

That's all my opinion, barfed almost incoherently into a keyboard. Take it or leave it.

Lidolas

Avengers Alliance, another mobile game, has two major types of events: Spec Ops and PvP. The PvP format is similar to MPQ. The top % people earn the hero and all the goodies, with less goodies for lower %s. The Spec Ops are story related. Anyone and everyone has the opportunity to earn the heroes offered there by completing the missions. The missions can be difficult and there are always missions that require having heroes that are difficult or expensive to obtain. I know the format wouldn't translate exactly to MPQ, but some tweaking could be done. I don't understand why new characters need to be limited to a % of people. These heroes aren't trophies. They are usable parts of the game. I'd be all for D3 handing out trophies, medals, kudos, etc. to the top performers. But please, don't limit new heroes that will be required in future events to a minor % of the player base.

FadeToOne

Lidolas wrote:

Avengers Alliance, another mobile game, has two major types of events: Spec Ops and PvP. The PvP format is similar to MPQ. The top % people earn the hero and all the goodies, with less goodies for lower %s. The Spec Ops are story related. Anyone and everyone has the opportunity to earn the heroes offered there by completing the missions. The missions can be difficult and there are always missions that require having heroes that are difficult or expensive to obtain. I know the format wouldn't translate exactly to MPQ, but some tweaking could be done. I don't understand why new characters need to be limited to a % of people. These heroes aren't trophies. They are usable parts of the game. I'd be all for D3 handing out trophies, medals, kudos, etc. to the top performers. But please, don't limit new heroes that will be required in future events to a minor % of the player base.

Yeah, that brings up another problem. The need to have a required character for a PvE means that if you don't have him, you can't get as many points to earn the next character. So you either have to get lucky initially and ride the wave, or it's significantly harder to progress.

simonsez

Nellyson wrote:

I said you could make the cover progression as high as you want, but everyone should have a chance to get it. Chance for everyone and not just the top 150 people. By making it a progression instead of ranking you in a bracket, you give yourself that chance to get it, rather than hoping you do better than someone else.

But you do understand that they would just set a score that, on average, only 150 people would reach, right? The only difference would be that late-starting let-me-join-a-lazy-bracket people would have to change their strategy, and that would actually be a good thing.

Unknown

There really isn't a good way to fix the reward structure.

-If you place the new characters as point progression rewards they will make sure only about 30% of the base actually receives the first cover let alone the other two. Which would then bring up the issue that newer people trying to break into three star land would have even less of a chance of a getting a three star character.

-If you were to put all three covers in a node/nodes they would be forced to make the node a challenge thereby stopping people from getting them again. Except those already in three star land they won't have an issue. Or people would complain because the scaling would allow only the newest people to collect the covers and veterans would be screwed.

-If you changed the pve to specifically number of nodes you can clear (a node being worth 1 victory point) people would be up in arms about the amount of time they have to dedicate to the game or how it is just an attempt to make it P2W.

Also the OP though trying to make a different structure for the end of an event is admirable it doesn't make sense. If I get the #1 spot and get a free 40-token pack for my trouble I'm guaranteed at least 10,000 ISO if I get zero useful covers which would then make whoever really gets the first few one spots an unfair advantage over everyone else.