Please cancel losing points in tournaments

Demiurge_Will

Il Palazzo wrote:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Thanks for this feedback, y'all. I don't post here often, but I read a ton of the posts here and I really appreciate the insight of this community.

tl;dr: We're not happy that progression rewards are so unattainable, and we're making some changes in the next update that should help a bit. But the fact that high-end PvP uses a competitive rating system means that, ultimately, at some point your rating will level out until your team gets better or you come up with new strategies.

long: We want the top end of most PvP events to be more about player skill, team composition, and character advancement than about the amount you play (it's about both, but initially, our PvP events skewed towards playtime too strongly). This means that at some point, we want the score to work like a rating system. Until / unless your characters or your skill change, you'll eventually arrive at a rating that roughly reflects your team and you, and from there things will feel "zero sum".

We're finding the balance between a rating system where backsliding is difficult and you get to progress no matter what - like things work when you have a low rating - and one where skilled players with superior teams can find success in a reasonable amount of time.

It's not cool that the progression rewards are so unachievable, though, and I'd like to fix that. I expect that upcoming changes to PvP events in the next major update will both give you more options for protecting your rating and raise the average score for everybody. After I see how that plays out, I expect to revisit the progression reward thresholds and make sure the best rewards are within reach.

So... after seeing how it plays out, far end progression prizes for tourneys are stretched out by 400 more points, and shield training HP high end reward mysteriously chage from 500 to 100. And a well timed, delayed retaliation can still make you lose 49 points in one fight.
Way to go!

Yep! And the number of folks attaining the high-end rewards went up by a factor of 25x-200x (depending on the reward) relative to pre-shields.

Unknown

I certainly don't think that has done anything to promote player skill or successfull team composition though so I assume there is more work to be done?

I'm not complaining but the progressions rewards are being won because people have more points as they can 'save' them, not because they got better at the game. From the your earlier post it sounded like you more interested in implementing an ELO type system which..well, which would be fantastic.

Unknown

As described by several people on the forums previous, an ELO system doesn't work here because human players are far superior to AI, especially when you factor buffs in. What we have currently appears to be some variation on ELO, as far as I can tell.

Demiurge_Will

abuelo wrote:

I certainly don't think that has done anything to promote player skill or successfull team composition though so I assume there is more work to be done?

Matchmaking changes (first off, trying to help folks who are caught in matchmaking "islands" with either very few matches worth more than a couple points or very few matches that seem possible to win) and some other tweaks to PvP are on the way, yep.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Matchmaking changes (first off, trying to help folks who are caught in matchmaking "islands" with either very few matches worth more than a couple points or very few matches that seem possible to win) and some other tweaks to PvP are on the way, yep.

Good to know those situations are on the radar, thanks, Will.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Matchmaking changes (first off, trying to help folks who are caught in matchmaking "islands" with either very few matches worth more than a couple points or very few matches that seem possible to win) and some other tweaks to PvP are on the way, yep.

Wow.

Do you also eliminate the chance to gain benefits from losing games (aka tanking)?

Unknown

I think only one person at a time should be able to attack you. I had a shield and #22 and my shield ran out with 12 minutes to go. In those twelve minutes I lost 100 points and went down to 76 and didn't get storm Mohawk. That REALLY made me mad. I worked hard for that and lost it all in twelve minutes. I didn't have time to get a shield to go all the way since I would be gone for the rest of the time. This SERIOUSLY needs to be fixed or this will soon become a 3* game

Cragger

Necromancy!

Why not wait 12 minutes when you originally put up the shield? Properly timing shields is rather important. Surely things were less intense at x+12 minutes than it always is at the last moments of a tournament.

Unknown

Cragger wrote:

Necromancy!

Why not wait 12 minutes when you originally put up the shield? Properly timing shields is rather important. Surely things were less intense at x+12 minutes than it always is at the last moments of a tournament.

I played as long as I could until I teed off and we weren't aloud to Use cellphones on the course. I think it's just silly to be able to lose 150 points in twelve minutes. This honestly needs to be fixed ASAP

Unknown

Twelve minutes? Please. I lost 228 points in 3 minutes (coming out from a match myself) in season2 around the 850 points range.

Cragger

IamSethW wrote:

Cragger wrote:

Necromancy!

Why not wait 12 minutes when you originally put up the shield? Properly timing shields is rather important. Surely things were less intense at x+12 minutes than it always is at the last moments of a tournament.

I played as long as I could until I teed off and we weren't aloud to Use cellphones on the course. I think it's just silly to be able to lose 150 points in twelve minutes. This honestly needs to be fixed ASAP

When that twelve minutes encompasses the last five minutes of a tournament it is entirely plausible, believable, and rational. Most players break shields in the last five minutes to win as many points as they can before others are able to attack them and retaliate against their wins. A shield that doesn't cover the last minutes of play is a shield wasted.

When I am playing a PvP event, I am making about 150 points every twelve minutes. Had one person hit you repeatedly for that total, it would be shenanigans. But five to ten players out of the 10,000+ players in an event all hitting you over five to ten minutes is just going to happen.

Unknown

I shouldn't be able to lose 123 points just while I'm fighting a match! Shielding yourself is all well and good if you have the real life money to spend on hero points, but if you don't, it's simply not a viable option every time you want to win a decent prize in a tournament. Besides, with the numbers so clustered, you can drop several places just by not fighting while you're behind a shield. Something needs to give here...

On a side note: Are the brackets not broken up by character level? It's gotten to the point where the only fights I'm given are at least twice (lots of times more than that) my level, and I'm only getting 19 points per fight. ((Which is pointless when I know I'm going to have lost at least 50 by the time I finish, and I'm going to be half dead. Something just seems really really off on that.)) Challenging is one thing... impossible to get what you want, especially when you were already there, is another. Can't improve if you can't get the covers to do so!

GAH! I SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO FALL FROM 69 to 197 IN AN HOUR WHILE I'M PLAYING!!! This is such ****!

Unknown

So is work all being done on this anymore? Regardless of how far i level my guys, at 650 to 700 points i hit a wall. That i cannot move part because everyone is 166+, but worth less than 25 points. So even if i go in boosted so i can win, the fights take so long and the progress is so little, I've lost four times that while i was playing. I guess i have to grind until i can put together a 166 team which will run my scaling in pve where those chars aren't featured....

KrazyKeylime

maybe add a feature to allow a fellow character in your roster to stand guard and take a hit for you. this can be a 1 hit ko or like 2500 per block. it gives you some thing to do with remaining team members while grinding

MaskedMan

The thing that bothers me the most about the losses is that (since I'm not a high tier player yet) there is no way to get my progression awards (event and season) score up to the higher rewards because I can't get one event past 600 (hit 700 once) before being pummeled into submission often losing 50-100 points WHILE PLAYING. You win a hard fight for 13 points only to be told that nets you out to a 90 point loss.

I understand the PvP ranking part of it that is to be expected IMO, I just hate losing season rankings at the end of events. PvP should be PvP. Eliminate shields and progression penalties.

Unknown

Apollo Chaos wrote:

That "No Mans Land" tournament really pissed me off. Not only did I reach 790+ points just to get knocked down to 600+ points after 5 battles. This happened 3 times. Whats even worse was that I found out that not only if you skip your attacker that they can come back and kill you again for another 30+ points in a matter of 5 minutes, this can happen multiple times. Needless to say I finished top 50 after 5 hours of non stop grinding. What was the point

Amen! There were soooooo many times I was one match away, won the match, only to find out I was again 3 matches away...

Eventually, about the 7th time I ran out of health packs, I just quit. It is was possible to officially drop out of the tournament, I would have.

OneLastGambit

The Magic Wombat wrote:

Apollo Chaos wrote:

That "No Mans Land" tournament really pissed me off. Not only did I reach 790+ points just to get knocked down to 600+ points after 5 battles. This happened 3 times. Whats even worse was that I found out that not only if you skip your attacker that they can come back and kill you again for another 30+ points in a matter of 5 minutes, this can happen multiple times. Needless to say I finished top 50 after 5 hours of non stop grinding. What was the point

Amen! There were soooooo many times I was one match away, won the match, only to find out I was again 3 matches away...

Eventually, about the 7th time I ran out of health packs, I just quit. It is was possible to officially drop out of the tournament, I would have.

So weird I was just reading this thread a few minutes ago. Doesn't seem like this issue has yet been rectified. It is not balanced that you can go into a match near the threshold for a progression reward, win and then come out further away from that progression.

Is it possible devs to change the game so that any deductions to your points are made AFTER your additions. That way the game mechanics stay the same but nobody gets mad that they slid down the progression rewards right at the moment they should have attained it. The end result as far as leaderboards go, is the same as the current system, but this one small change would help out plenty of people playing for progressions instead of placements. In particular the 2* crowd since you have no chance of decent placement when running a largely 2* roster.

Crowl

OneLastGambit wrote:

So weird I was just reading this thread a few minutes ago. Doesn't seem like this issue has yet been rectified. It is not balanced that you can go into a match near the threshold for a progression reward, win and then come out further away from that progression.

Is it possible devs to change the game so that any deductions to your points are made AFTER your additions. That way the game mechanics stay the same but nobody gets mad that they slid down the progression rewards right at the moment they should have attained it. The end result as far as leaderboards go, is the same as the current system, but this one small change would help out plenty of people playing for progressions instead of placements. In particular the 2* crowd since you have no chance of decent placement when running a largely 2* roster.

The simplest solution seems to be to keep two totals for an event, a purely cumulative one for progression rewards and the current variable one that would be used for placement rewards, they would obviously need to adjust the scores required to get progression rewards to take into account people no longer losing points but at least people would have fixed targets to aim at rather than the current situation where you can lose progress even while winning a match.

Green83

As a new player I would love to support the plan of tracking two seperate scores:

* Rankings / placement score
* Cumulative for progression rewards

I do not have a capped roster (my highest charachter is 76) and with PVP events I constantly run into teams with capped 94 rosters. While I can beat them when using powerups, I try to climb up the rankings that way.

However after I beat a certain team for lets say 20 points, I come out of a battle and am beat by a team having (boosted) characters in the 120's region and I lost another 30. If I want to retalliate that team (which is basicaly unbeatable for my lower chars) I only gain 9 points out of it.

It is frustrating that I wont be able to climb to the 800 reward treshold that way. Hope this is indeed being considered, as it's just impossible as a new player to get the covers you need.

Nightglider1

Progression awards should be a reward for playing, period. I agree that there should be two scores - your cumulative progression score and your "placement" score. If the devs think that this would make the Legendary token too achievable at 1300, then bump up the required score. I play PVP for progression rewards, not placement rewards, and am considering sitting out Season XX because the constant score fluctuations are just too demoralizing.