Please cancel losing points in tournaments

Unknown

And let me explain a bit here.
I am not a competiteve person, really. Its not about winning (though with current sistem it looks like the one winning is not the one doing most matches, but the one lucky to be locked in matches with sleeping/lasy/inactive ppl - like in tournoment were i was going up not by playing, but by others loosing in my bracet), its more about threshold prises.
Its really annoing trying to reach sertan number of points for 5-10 fights in a row and always come a bit short.
Is there any need for such frustrations?

And, well... the best should win tournaments, not the luckiest ones.

Unknown

The recent tournament was again strange. I found that the rankings were so clustered around 500 that losing a battle would take me from 6th to 40th. If I won two battles I would jump to first but then losing another battle dropped me to 23rd.

GuntherBlobel

I agree. The current system needs a major overhaul of some sort. The recent frustrations with 25 pt losses highlights it. Perhaps, a very small loss would be acceptable, but still, count me in with those frustrated that so much progress is being lost after a day of work or an evening of sleep.

How about a system that ratchets, so that you only lose 10 percent of your highest score progress? That way if you progress to 500, you could stop playing and know that you will still have at least 450 pts when you come back.

Unknown

GuntherBlobel wrote:

I agree. The current system needs a major overhaul of some sort. The recent frustrations with 25 pt losses highlights it. Perhaps, a very small loss would be acceptable, but still, count me in with those frustrated that so much progress is being lost after a day of work or an evening of sleep.

How about a system that ratchets, so that you only lose 10 percent of your highest score progress? That way if you progress to 500, you could stop playing and know that you will still have at least 450 pts when you come back.

A trailing stop loss. Interesting idea.

TheHood

+1 I totally agree!
Please!

Dayv

Misguided wrote:

GuntherBlobel wrote:

I agree. The current system needs a major overhaul of some sort. The recent frustrations with 25 pt losses highlights it. Perhaps, a very small loss would be acceptable, but still, count me in with those frustrated that so much progress is being lost after a day of work or an evening of sleep.

How about a system that ratchets, so that you only lose 10 percent of your highest score progress? That way if you progress to 500, you could stop playing and know that you will still have at least 450 pts when you come back.

A trailing stop loss. Interesting idea.

Or the losses could continue, but slow down the farther you get from your high water mark, to discourage people making a huge push and just walking away completely.

Unknown

That "No Mans Land" tournament really pissed me off. Not only did I reach 790+ points just to get kcocked down to 600+ points after 5 battles. This happened 3 times. Whats even worse was that I found out that not only if you skip your attacker that they can come back and kill you again for another 30+ points in a matter of 5 minutes, this can happen multiple times. Needless to say I finished top 50 after 5 hours of non stop grinding. What was the point

Snickity

I grinded the final 3 hours of "No Man's Land" and I may have stayed even. I was up big for a while, almost reaching 700 pts (I was shown that I hit 720 but I never got the reward for 700 pts, I was hit for over 50 pts, during that fight. To start the last hour I was in 1st, 60 pts clear of second, but every battle would get me negative net points, hitting as low as 575 pts, and I ended up barely hanging on to stay in the top 8. I normally only fight battles that will get me 25+ points but some retaliations were still costing me more than I had gained. I was going to stay back in the pack for the black BW Original but felt my team was strong enough to win so I pushed for first, I ended most fights with full health(Storm-Modern, Moon, BW-Original). If I would've finished in the 9-20 range I wouldn't have gotten a cover that I could use and that would've sucked.

The most frustrating part of the end of tournaments is that it's not the people I'm competing against taking my points, it's people in other brackets. Breaking up match-making and bracketing is a recipe for frustration, imo.

Unknown

I felt like I got cheated in No Man's Land. I was in the top 5 in the last 5 minutes of the event and I finished a 25 point battle as it ended, only to end up in the top 50 instead and receive Original Black Widow covers I already had. I even anticipated the backlash and played two hours to try and save my spot but to no avail. Fortunately, I fared better in the first Widowmaker, but I was pushed out from the top 4 to the top 20 in a matter of minutes even though I continuously played for multiple hours until the event's end.

Once you get to a high enough rating, retaliations are virtually useless. You are lucky to gain the same amount of points that you lost, and by the time you are finished with that battle, two to three more people would have attacked you as well. It's worse than a zero-sum game at the final hours of the event. Any and all attempts to get a healthy sum of rating points are lost in the blink of an eye.

Also, this system make it impossible for players to achieve the rewards for 800-1000+ rating points, and many players on the forums can corroborate my claims. It's almost insulting to have such a carrot (rewards you can't get) and stick (losing hundreds of points for not playing for a few minutes) mechanism in the game.

There has to be a better way to quantify a player's participation and skill in PVP events. Players want to feel the thrill of going up the ranks, not fear from having their progress yanked away without warning. The suggestions posted in the forums are a great start (i.e. trailing stop loss), and personally I think that either limiting the point loss or number of retaliations to a certain amount per hour/day would be a great idea and would allow dedicated people to make those high rating rewards. Please don't take this as destructive criticism, but an opportunity to make the game better for everyone.

Demiurge_Will

Thanks for this feedback, y'all. I don't post here often, but I read a ton of the posts here and I really appreciate the insight of this community.

tl;dr: We're not happy that progression rewards are so unattainable, and we're making some changes in the next update that should help a bit. But the fact that high-end PvP uses a competitive rating system means that, ultimately, at some point your rating will level out until your team gets better or you come up with new strategies.

long: We want the top end of most PvP events to be more about player skill, team composition, and character advancement than about the amount you play (it's about both, but initially, our PvP events skewed towards playtime too strongly). This means that at some point, we want the score to work like a rating system. Until / unless your characters or your skill change, you'll eventually arrive at a rating that roughly reflects your team and you, and from there things will feel "zero sum".

We're finding the balance between a rating system where backsliding is difficult and you get to progress no matter what - like things work when you have a low rating - and one where skilled players with superior teams can find success in a reasonable amount of time.

It's not cool that the progression rewards are so unachievable, though, and I'd like to fix that. I expect that upcoming changes to PvP events in the next major update will both give you more options for protecting your rating and raise the average score for everybody. After I see how that plays out, I expect to revisit the progression reward thresholds and make sure the best rewards are within reach.

Unknown

Hmm, interesting. Looking forward to it, cheers for the update

Unknown

Thanks for the information.

Hopefully this means the SHIELD tourney will become viable again.

Unknown

As a relatively new player, this sounds promising. Thanks for the news!

Unknown

Right now the only thing that distinguishes how good a player is the amount you play. It's just not that hard to win your game and still have full health due to healing powers, so the only thing that separates two players using a turtle strategy is the speed they kill (which usually isn't going to be very different if both turtle) and how often they play. The point total fluctuate so much precisely because just about everyone can win decisively almost all the time. There's no skill involved in protecting your rating or obtaining your rating when everyone wins with nearly full health on all their characters. The only distinguishing factor is who plays more, and who is lucky enough to not get retaliated as much (or have the most intimidating team, even though you still won't win on defense). The fact that your rating is relatively static is not a bad thing. The fact that your rating pretty much only depends on how many player's screen your name showed up on in the last 60 minutes of a tournament is a very bad thing.

Crazze47

I won't go to much into the uphill battle that leads to the cliff that is the current system since everybody above has already described. Though I would like to get into another issue with the tournaments which is how huge of a difference there is between offense and well whatever little defense their is. As the attacker you get boosts and can target whoever you wish making it easy to destroy any synergy a team has by picking off low health/integral members of the team before they have the chance to do what I use them to do in a fight as the attacker.

To fix this problem I would suggest that for pvp tournaments disabling boosters and the ability to choose your target( would work same way it does for attack whoever made the last match is the current target.) The biggest issue I can think of for the targeting thing would be not being able to choose who you stun but a pop up similar to when you choose tiles for certain abilities to pick who you use the stun ability on would fix that. I am guessing a lot of people won't like this idea (since it would make it harder to win some matches) and from a development stand point I don't know how it would work. Still I think it would go a long way to making skill and your team a bigger factor in your ranking.

Again I definitely agree something needs to be done about point loss since it is very extreme but I think something like this would help with the whole reward skill vs time thing.

EDIT: Removed my stupidity about reading joined dates as post dates thanks to those below that pointed it out to me.

Unknown

Crazze47 wrote:

Did this update happen? The post from the Dev was two months ago. I am still seeing and experiencing the same problem that was comment on by the OP and almost everyone else that posted.

Re: Please cancel loosing points in tournaments

Postby Demiurge_Will » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:34 am

Nemek

Hey, 12 hours can sometimes feel like 2 months under certain conditions.

(I, too, sometimes misread the Join Date for the post date.)

Unknown

Nemek wrote:

(I, too, sometimes misread the Join Date for the post date.)

I see it now!

Crazze47

/sigh well I feel stupid now. Well glad to know an update is in the works then.

Unknown

My 2 cents:

Retaliation, and losing points, is something that will have to be there in one way or another.

However, the flaw currently is that you finish one match to see 5 people retaliate against you. There is no way to keep up with that. Make it so you can only lose a certain amount of points in a certain time frame, or something, an amount about half of what you can gain in one win. Or, make it so you can only be challenged by another person X times in a certain time frame.

Spoit

The problem is that the only playtime that really matters is the last 10 minutes or so, and that it's essentially a roulette wheel whether you can find more worthwhile opponents than can find and hit you, neither of which really involve skill or grinding