The monotony of PVP

Unknown

Does anyone else feel like every pvp is the same of late? It's much more like every event is Lonestar.

Coast/Grind/etc up to 800 or so and then Sentry.
Sentry Hood.
Sentry Hood.
Sentry Hulk.
Sentry Daken.
Sentry Hood.
Sentry Hood.
Sentry.
Sentry.
Sentry.

It's great that there are like 25 3*/4* characters and all. Nice artwork. Cool animations. But 1 character in every freaking team. Come on devs with your excuses about metrics. People who actually play see the exact same thing. It's really kinda boring and destroys an otherwise good game when you put in a mechanic that breaks the game. Playing non-stop doesn't break the game but something where you can win a match without much if any thought is just silly.


oh Sentry.

Unknown

You are preaching to the choir.

I ranted about having these great characters, but we cannot use them largely due to Sentry.

http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14848

Unknown

I like using Sentry myself. But what with recent nerfs and all, he has suddenly become a predominantly used character. I just hope this doesn't mean he's next on he nerf schedule...

Unknown

The only reason to not use Sentry is if you can't be bothered to shield anyway and want to win as many games as possible before your rating drops off a cliff. Even then, just because Sentry defends very strongly it might still be quicker to hit a score of say 800 compared to anyone else even though Sentry is likely a bit slower or uses more health packs. Yes, if you don't use full boosts it doesn't always make sense to immediately Sacrifice into World Rupture, and that's if you even have the AP to do so. But while a team like Patch + Magneto wins quick and don't need health packs, a lot of time you'll be spinning in circles because this team isn't nearly as strong as Sentry on defense so winning quicker/safer doesn't mean much.

Unknown

Well, they nerfed Mags, who was the other one you saw all the freaking time.

Now they just have to nerf Sentry and we should be good for a while.

But in D3's defense, if you play competitive games a lot, there is ALWAYS a flavor of the month. A purportedly overpowered character or combo that everyone abuses.

When Sentry is nerfed, I'm sure someone will come up with the new OP.

My guess would be black panther, personally.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Rico Dredd wrote:

I like using Sentry myself. But what with recent nerfs and all, he has suddenly become a predominantly used character. I just hope this doesn't mean he's next on he nerf schedule...

Who might make it into the Nerf schedule. I can only think of five that could be considered. Of these, only Sentry really qualifies. I had a Thor nerf in my 15 Suggestion Poll, and it was by far the least popular item by an overwhelming majority. People are generally fine with everybody on this list except for Sentry. So, yes -- if there's a schedule, he's on it. On the other hand, grinding with him is expensive. If he's a top revenue source, he'll stay as he is.
Sentry
Black Panther
Hulk
Thor
Wolverine (Patch)

Next we have the mostly balanced characters, that no-one really wants to either buff or nerf. Some tweaks are possible, such as for Captain America's Yellow, but in general all these characters are fine as they are or got introduced recently enough to keep them stable for awhile.
Nick Fury
Wolverine (X-Force)
Beast
Captain America
Captain Marvel
Daken
Deadpool
Falcon
Human Torch
Magneto (classic)
Psylocke
Punisher
The Hood
Ares
Black Widow (original)
Magneto (Marvel Now)
Storm (classic)

Then there are the characters that need help.
Invisible Woman -- Change Force Bubbles cost to 11 AP. Make Invisibity Black.
Iron Man (Model 40) -- Remove AP drains. Drop Salvo to 15 AP, and make it Black or Purple. Make Recharge variable cost 6 ooo . 8 ooo . 10 oo . 12 oo . 14 oo.
Black Widow (grey) -- Bump up health. Drop Pistol cost to 12 AP and make it Yellow.
Storm (Mohawk) -- Bump up health. Drop Lightning Strike to 9 AP, and let MotE destroy 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 team-up tiles.
Spider Man -- Change Web Bandages to a useful Green Ability.
She-Hulk -- Drop Reprieve to Green 7 AP.
Daredevil -- Disarmed traps return AP-1.
Loki -- Give him Avoid. Or anything else.
Doctor Doom -- Give him anything. An environment power. Anything.
Ragnarok -- Give him anything. An environment power. Anything.
Bullseye -- Give him anything. An environment power. Anything.
Moonstone -- Drop Control Shift to 14 AP.
Bag Man -- Drop costs of all powers.

onimus wrote:

When Sentry is nerfed, I'm sure someone will come up with the new OP.

With Buffs, Sentry can reliably wipe out the enemy team in three rounds, especially with Daken/Hood helping. No other characters come close to that. There are dozens of teams that can reliably win, but not in three rounds.

babinro

As a sentry player I look forward to him getting nerfed. He's not even close to being as broken as Mags but he's still too strong offensively.

I've argued that the cost of the green skill should change but the more I think of it the more I'd like that power to just go away entirely. Even if WR cost 19 green AP it still just ends battles compared to say IM40 or GSBW. I'd like this skill to change to something different entirely which has nothing to do with individually triggering damage via strike tiles.

Alas, I know nothing about Sentry's lore and couldn't even begin to offer a replacement skill that would be appropriate.

Unknown

If/when Sentry gets nerfed you'll likely suddenly see a lot of The Hood since Sentry, Magneto, and Daken (who is also nerfed somewhat) are the only guys that can kill him quick enough before Dormammu's become overwhelmingly powerful. Now Dormammu is only broken in D3's favor because Dormammu either slows down the game if you're attacking The Hood or it forces a super slow paced game of Hood vs Hood (two Dormammu's cancel each other out and Hood has no offense to speak of) so maybe they don't care as much, but they really should because attacking Hood is one of the most painful experience in MPQ when you don't have those 3 guys that can put him away really fast. Thor might get a stay of execution because there is X Force now, who functions awfully similar as he does (tons of HP, tons of damage, tons of synergy, but also needs tons of AP to do his thing), or that might just hasten his demise because D3 want people to get X Force for the new big & dumb guy.

Unknown

PVP's boring. It's been boring for ages. Part of the reason I tank so heavily is to spend as little time as possible doing PVP. It's the least fun or interesting part of the game, and has been for months. It's stale, stagnant, and dull. I don't understand why anyone would enjoy it. If there was enough content in the game, I wouldn't do it at all, but it's all there is to do a good chunk of the time, and it's the only way to get covers in any significant numbers.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

PVP's boring. It's been boring for ages. Part of the reason I tank so heavily is to spend as little time as possible doing PVP. It's the least fun or interesting part of the game, and has been for months. It's stale, stagnant, and dull. I don't understand why anyone would enjoy it. If there was enough content in the game, I wouldn't do it at all, but it's all there is to do a good chunk of the time, and it's the only way to get covers in any significant numbers.

I play PvP very little but just because I don't like it doesn't mean those who like it have to suffer. I'm not talking about like diverting all resources to PvP. Fix Sentry and do something about the watch-the-grass-grow fights of Hood vs Hood and that should get rid of everything that's unbearable with PvP. It won't be anywhere balanced but at least it wouldn't be an exercise in futility.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Phantron wrote:

If/when Sentry gets nerfed you'll likely suddenly see a lot of The Hood since Sentry, Magneto, and Daken (who is also nerfed somewhat) are the only guys that can kill him quick enough before Dormammu's become overwhelmingly powerful.

Hood hasn't been changed in almost a year. Almost any rainbow team can take him down -- at the open, pick one color and stick to that. He can't drain a color that has 9 or less tiles on the board, so drop something to 9 or less with the first match that has other matches available. Or go for TU tiles. Figure out something that will be safe from his drain, and go for that.

It's Hood's teammates that will take you down. Thor, Captain America, and Human Torch in particular. Hood by himself is a pushover. Hood with teammates is tricky to beat without using a counterhood, but quite doable. Hood offers many strategies, but so do many other characters.

Sentry will likely still be formidable, but he won't be easily winning by turn 3 if they do it right. Halving his counters to a diagonal and doubling their damage would fix him, since it would halve the multiplier on strike tiles. With that, Captain Marvel and Hulk would stick around to say hello to Sentry after a World Rupture.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Phantron wrote:

If/when Sentry gets nerfed you'll likely suddenly see a lot of The Hood since Sentry, Magneto, and Daken (who is also nerfed somewhat) are the only guys that can kill him quick enough before Dormammu's become overwhelmingly powerful.

Hood hasn't been changed in almost a year. Almost any rainbow team can take him down -- at the open, pick one color and stick to that. He can't drain a color that has 9 or less tiles on the board, so drop something to 9 or less with the first match that has other matches available. Or go for TU tiles. Figure out something that will be safe from his drain, and go for that.

It's Hood's teammates that will take you down. Thor, Captain America, and Human Torch in particular. Hood by himself is a pushover. Hood with teammates is tricky to beat without using a counterhood, but quite doable. Hood offers many strategies, but so do many other characters.

Sentry will likely still be formidable, but he won't be easily winning by turn 3 if they do it right. Halving his counters to a diagonal and doubling their damage would fix him, since it would halve the multiplier on strike tiles. With that, Captain Marvel and Hulk would stick around to say hello to Sentry after a World Rupture.

Neither the AI nor the board will often cooperate with the 'pick a color and get 9 AP' even if you have a good move in every color, and realistically if it's not yellow or green, then you probably can't kill The Hood with it because the other colors are relatively weaker. I think people are so used to The Hood being killed by Sentry/Daken/Magneto that they can't imagine what it's like if you don't have one of those 3 way overpowered characters that can get rid of him by turn 5. But two out of three is being nerfed and Sentry probably will be nerfed in some way too. If the nerf to Daken did its job then you'll see teams eventually settle on Hood versus Hood. If people think Sentry bombing each other is bad, wait until you have Hood versus Hood fights where you can't Sentry bomb each other. And yes you can say Hood versus Hood is totally fair, but it's only slightly faster than a Bullseye versus Bullseye fight. The game should not subject people to such pains to remain competitive.

Unknown

When you have a character that can singlehandedly wipe out a team of max 166s in less than 2 minutes, something is definitely wrong (not to mention the 10k+ health that he has).

Dauthi

Phantron wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Phantron wrote:

If/when Sentry gets nerfed you'll likely suddenly see a lot of The Hood since Sentry, Magneto, and Daken (who is also nerfed somewhat) are the only guys that can kill him quick enough before Dormammu's become overwhelmingly powerful.

Hood hasn't been changed in almost a year. Almost any rainbow team can take him down -- at the open, pick one color and stick to that. He can't drain a color that has 9 or less tiles on the board, so drop something to 9 or less with the first match that has other matches available. Or go for TU tiles. Figure out something that will be safe from his drain, and go for that.

It's Hood's teammates that will take you down. Thor, Captain America, and Human Torch in particular. Hood by himself is a pushover. Hood with teammates is tricky to beat without using a counterhood, but quite doable. Hood offers many strategies, but so do many other characters.

Sentry will likely still be formidable, but he won't be easily winning by turn 3 if they do it right. Halving his counters to a diagonal and doubling their damage would fix him, since it would halve the multiplier on strike tiles. With that, Captain Marvel and Hulk would stick around to say hello to Sentry after a World Rupture.

Neither the AI nor the board will often cooperate with the 'pick a color and get 9 AP' even if you have a good move in every color, and realistically if it's not yellow or green, then you probably can't kill The Hood with it because the other colors are relatively weaker. I think people are so used to The Hood being killed by Sentry/Daken/Magneto that they can't imagine what it's like if you don't have one of those 3 way overpowered characters that can get rid of him by turn 5. But two out of three is being nerfed and Sentry probably will be nerfed in some way too. If the nerf to Daken did its job then you'll see teams eventually settle on Hood versus Hood.

I think it is in this regard that people overlook quick cast abilities like Thor's red (especially maxed), Psylocke, Daken's blue and purple (etc). Once changes are implemented I think more people will realize the value of quick kill abilities. Hood dies really fast and the AP he gains is randomized but usually possible to effect on top of that. Most of the time I watch his team gains colors they don't need before he is knocked out.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

PVP's boring. It's been boring for ages. Part of the reason I tank so heavily is to spend as little time as possible doing PVP. It's the least fun or interesting part of the game, and has been for months. It's stale, stagnant, and dull. I don't understand why anyone would enjoy it. If there was enough content in the game, I wouldn't do it at all, but it's all there is to do a good chunk of the time, and it's the only way to get covers in any significant numbers.

I play PvP very little but just because I don't like it doesn't mean those who like it have to suffer. I'm not talking about like diverting all resources to PvP. Fix Sentry and do something about the watch-the-grass-grow fights of Hood vs Hood and that should get rid of everything that's unbearable with PvP. It won't be anywhere balanced but at least it wouldn't be an exercise in futility.

It was boring before Sentry was introduced; it'll still be boring if he's nerfed. It'll just be boring with different people.

Unknown

PvE is just as boring if not more so.

I prefer PvP since there's no scaling or rubberbanding or "featured character required".

Unknown

MikeHock wrote:

PvE is just as boring if not more so.

I prefer PvP since there's no scaling or rubberbanding or "featured character required".

In PVE you'll at least make some concrete progress whenever you win a match. On of the things that makes PVP so tedious - besides the fact that there's much less team variety in PVP - is the defensive losses. You can come out of a hard fought victory down points. In PVE you'll at least get points out of a win. You can have an hour in PVP where you win every match you play and are still down points at the end of it.

Bowgentle

Ben Grimm wrote:

It was boring before Sentry was introduced; it'll still be boring if he's nerfed. It'll just be boring with different people.

Actually, if/when Sentry is nerfed, I think we'll see a LOT more variety.
If Sentry stops trivializing defense, Fury, Hulk, BP, LT, maybe even Deadpool, Marvel and She-Hulk will suddenly become viable.
I'd love to play Fury, but it just makes no sense right now when he falls to Sentry as easily as everyone else.

I assumed roster depth would become much more important after true healing - instead PVP became The Sentry Show. Remove Sentry, and maybe, just maybe, roster diversity will start to mean something.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

MikeHock wrote:

PvE is just as boring if not more so.

I prefer PvP since there's no scaling or rubberbanding or "featured character required".

In PVE you'll at least make some concrete progress whenever you win a match. On of the things that makes PVP so tedious - besides the fact that there's much less team variety in PVP - is the defensive losses. You can come out of a hard fought victory down points. In PVE you'll at least get points out of a win. You can have an hour in PVP where you win every match you play and are still down points at the end of it.

Yep, defensive losses suck big time, but I really just use PvE for ISO since I find it to be a crapshoot and rarely win a cover when a new character is released. The rotation of the same PvE events get monotonous.

Unknown

I still like PVP. Can't stand PVE anymore. At least with PVP, despite all the Sentry teams, there's still more variety and a feeling of competition. Racing to raise your rank and get shielded in time before attacks and all that. And consequences of losing/being attacked. PVE is just grind the same damn nodes over and over again and if you lose it doesn't even matter. and what do you get out of it? you have to spend hours and hours grinding away to beat the other grinders, usually for a week or more straight, just to get the same amount of 3 star covers that you can get every 2 days or so per PVP in a fraction of the time spent? Bleh. If I wasn't in an alliance that expects at least some effort in pve I would just stop doing it entirely.

Unknown

The raw nuts and bolts. This is a match 3 game with a variety of characters and abilities. All rewards and point systems have little to do with the fun part of the game. Using a variety of enemies to play against a different set of enemies is fun and sometimes challenging. Who can triple buff hop and shield more often than the next guy with the exact same party every time is not. Oh and yes you can use anyone. Right that argument. Well if you want stupid fast wins you use sentry. You can't have any variety as long is there's a character who can do like 12k to each of 3 enemies on his own in 3 turns. May as well make a character who let's you win automatically for 20hp and 240 ISO without bothering to load the fight screen.

D3 is aware sentry is broken. Very very broken. They're looking into it carefully because of all the people who went out and fully covered him with cash so they could also be competitive. They obviously have to be careful with their comments and deflect to metrics and what not to avoid blame but the fact is that he was intentionally released as broken to make cash. Fine his time is up already. Can we have variety back?