PVE Scaling Question

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What determines the levels of your opponents in PvE? I aka ways thought each event was separate and the enemies scaled up in difficulty as you won fights and that this was the same for everyone. However I'm beginning to get schooled with my 3*s in the current PvE, while 1st place in my bracket has me by a few thousand with a best character being a lvl60 Bagman. Obviously I'm wrong as to how this works.
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  • HairyDave
    HairyDave Posts: 1,574
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    Mr Bagman user there is seeing MUCH lower levels than you before the community scaling kicks in.

    He might be getting a bonus for levelling the man of bags too icon_lol.gif

    Check out the rest of his roster too - if there's a low-covered Steve Rogers he could be powering through on match damage alone.
  • Unknown
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    While no one knows for sure, it definitely includes these two components:

    1. How well you're doing on this event.
    2. How well the community is doing on this event.

    Some additional factors that we're not quite sure that seems to be involved are:

    1. The level of the characters you used to win recently.
    2. Past performance on PvE events.

    It might be possible to dramatically lower your PvE scaling if you won many games in a row with a low level team, though that's of course easier said than done, and of course you got to stick to using the low level team or it'll quickly readjust itself.
  • Unknown
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    Also, it seems to me that the current event doesn't reset the scaling like the subevents before. So the scaling will probably skyrocket towards the end.

    My highest node is lv 250+ already. Haven't seen such high level nodes for ages in pve.
  • Unknown
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    lvl 275 for me.

    Just waiting and see if the scaling goes down.
  • Unknown
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    I get why personal scaling is a thing, but I still don't see any reason why community scaling still exists. It seems to only exist to make the game worse.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
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    HairyDave wrote:
    Mr Bagman user there is seeing MUCH lower levels than you before the community scaling kicks in.

    He might be getting a bonus for levelling the man of bags too icon_lol.gif

    Check out the rest of his roster too - if there's a low-covered Steve Rogers he could be powering through on match damage alone.

    What, is there an actual bonus for using Mr Bag or are you just joking? (I sold a softcapped Bags back in the day, when I still had the pokemon gotta catch them all mindset. Game sure disabused me of the idea quick.)

    But yes, I am totally enjoying Mr Rogers' big... shield in this pve.
  • HairyDave
    HairyDave Posts: 1,574
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    I'm just joking but in the last couple of PVEs my top 10s have had people with Bagman either as their highest character or at least put a decent amount of ISO into him. I just assume I'm being punished for not having him on my roster icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Unknown
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    HairyDave wrote:
    I'm just joking but in the last couple of PVEs my top 10s have had people with Bagman either as their highest character or at least put a decent amount of ISO into him. I just assume I'm being punished for not having him on my roster icon_e_biggrin.gif

    It's about time you knew he is Top Tier !

    And that calls himself a veteran !

    icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Unknown
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    Baltias wrote:
    Also, it seems to me that the current event doesn't reset the scaling like the subevents before. So the scaling will probably skyrocket towards the end.

    My highest node is lv 250+ already. Haven't seen such high level nodes for ages in pve.

    I am seeing level 327 characters. I really wish I knew how it worked. Even though I have a chance to beat them, the fights take forever! Every opponent is sitting at 15k+ health.
  • Unknown
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    rooter wrote:

    I am seeing level 327 characters. I really wish I knew how it worked. Even though I have a chance to beat them, the fights take forever! Every opponent is sitting at 15k+ health.

    I seem to be keeping my levels down by picking a team that just about beats the node. Say it is a trivial group of lvl 80's then I break out a 1 star team and win taking the quite a bit of damage and repeat. The big guns only come out for the really hard nodes or speed clearing near the end of the subs/events.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Sumilea wrote:
    rooter wrote:

    I am seeing level 327 characters. I really wish I knew how it worked. Even though I have a chance to beat them, the fights take forever! Every opponent is sitting at 15k+ health.

    I seem to be keeping my levels down by picking a team that just about beats the node. Say it is a trivial group of lvl 80's then I break out a 1 star team and win taking the quite a bit of damage and repeat. The big guns only come out for the really hard nodes or speed clearing near the end of the subs/events.

    This makes sense. I vaguely recall reading on here that part of the personal scaling is a result of remaining health when you leave a battle.
  • Unknown
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    Does that mean if you have spare characters lying around, it's worth it to charge underpowered into a battle and lose purposefully?
  • HairyDave
    HairyDave Posts: 1,574
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    daibar wrote:
    Does that mean if you have spare characters lying around, it's worth it to charge underpowered into a battle and lose purposefully?
    It can't hurt and you might stumble onto a combo that you didn't know would work well.
  • MarvelMan
    MarvelMan Posts: 1,350
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    Not sure how successful the suicide match route is. I played a decent bit the second day (into top 50, barely) then suicided my whole roster above 30 before calling it a night. Nodes were at ~130 when I stopped, and I had run a good dozen losses, including multiple with my main team by using up my health packs on them. Next day....nodes at 240. Played up to #2 before the refresh....nodes now at 280. I just dont get it. Suicided my roster again this morning....who knows if it will help. As people said above, its not that the 280 is that bad, 288 Yelena is MUCH better than 288 Jug, its just that it takes a long time.
  • Unknown
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    MarvelMan wrote:
    Not sure how successful the suicide match route is. I played a decent bit the second day (into top 50, barely) then suicided my whole roster above 30 before calling it a night. Nodes were at ~130 when I stopped, and I had run a good dozen losses, including multiple with my main team by using up my health packs on them. Next day....nodes at 240. Played up to #2 before the refresh....nodes now at 280. I just dont get it. Suicided my roster again this morning....who knows if it will help. As people said above, its not that the 280 is that bad, 288 Yelena is MUCH better than 288 Jug, its just that it takes a long time.

    I think community scaling is more responsible this time out, though the scaling combined with the death goons has also meant there are a lot more all-or-nothing battles. Community scaling is one of the dumbest things they do in this game, and I don't understand what purpose it serves. At all.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ben Grimm wrote:
    I think community scaling is more responsible this time out, though the scaling combined with the death goons has also meant there are a lot more all-or-nothing battles. Community scaling is one of the dumbest things they do in this game, and I don't understand what purpose it serves. At all.
    One purpose it serves is to provide a downside to doing nothing and then trying to rubberband the **** out of the event, but i'd be happier if they'd get rid of both, rather than having them play off one another like that.
  • Unknown
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    simonsez wrote:
    Ben Grimm wrote:
    I think community scaling is more responsible this time out, though the scaling combined with the death goons has also meant there are a lot more all-or-nothing battles. Community scaling is one of the dumbest things they do in this game, and I don't understand what purpose it serves. At all.
    One purpose it serves is to provide a downside to doing nothing and then trying to rubberband the **** out of the event, but i'd be happier if they'd get rid of both, rather than having them play off one another like that.

    I can see that, but given that it punishes people who have playing from the beginning as much, if not more (because we have personal scaling too, and a little scaling is usually fine, but a lot isn't) I don't think it's successful. The people who start late get some community scaling but little to no personal so they still have it easier, maybe much easier. I think all it does is make PVE worse.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ben Grimm wrote:
    The people who start late get some community scaling but little to no personal so they still have it easier, maybe much easier.
    You're probably right; but think how much easier it would be for them without community scaling. That said, I still think we're on the same page here. I much preferred the PvE they ran with no rb and neglible scaling. It actually rewarded you for just >playing<, not for figuring out the optimal way to game the system.
  • Unknown
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    The problem with scaling and rubberbanding is they're juggling a whole lot of things all at once. They want everyone, regardless of roster strength or time availability, to feel like they can compete. At the same time they don't want anyone to feel too comfortable, because they're trying to push people in various ways to spend money. In the end it feels awkward and unfair, because it is awkward and unfair. It seems like there should be a more graceful solution that's not such a mess without sacrificing their business goals.
  • Unknown
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    Thugpatrol wrote:
    The problem with scaling and rubberbanding is they're juggling a whole lot of things all at once. They want everyone, regardless of roster strength or time availability, to feel like they can compete. At the same time they don't want anyone to feel too comfortable, because they're trying to push people in various ways to spend money. In the end it feels awkward and unfair, because it is awkward and unfair. It seems like there should be a more graceful solution that's not such a mess without sacrificing their business goals.
    The answer is to make PvE actually mean PvE and not PvP with goons. That means they'll mainly only have to fine-tune progression rewards and it takes the pressure off players. In turn, they'll have more time for more important things, i.e. character balance, actual new and interesting content, anti-cheat, bug fixes.