The X-Men's Version of "Play Hard" = Cheat

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Psykopathic wrote:

Natsu-dragneel612 wrote:

So could someone explain how this can be picked apart easily. I am honestly just curious to understand both sides opinions about this.

Naz said he doesn't have to use shields because he has "his own server" to delay us being able to be seen. Which would mean we unshield, attack on some delay, and then re shield. Yet somehow having some magical undetectable server that delays us being hit keeps us from shielding. Which is what it's helping us do. Apparently.

Get it yet? He was being sarcastic about us cheating. Gave the lamest possible story as to how we did it. Now every1 is falling for it.

why would he be sarcastic about cheating? he was trying to recruit him to join the alliance. He seemed pretty serious to me. Let's see some bank statements showing how much hp you are buying per pvp. It could def make sense, remember the first sentry pvp? mickey got up to 1300 on the first day because of the delay in attacks and points so they were hitting seed teams for 25 points all the way to the top. If you could somehow manipulate that, it would allow for crazy scores.

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Psykopathic wrote:

Natsu-dragneel612 wrote:

So could someone explain how this can be picked apart easily. I am honestly just curious to understand both sides opinions about this.

Naz said he doesn't have to use shields because he has "his own server" to delay us being able to be seen. Which would mean we unshield, attack on some delay, and then re shield. Yet somehow having some magical undetectable server that delays us being hit keeps us from shielding. Which is what it's helping us do. Apparently.

Get it yet? He was being sarcastic about us cheating. Gave the lamest possible story as to how we did it. Now every1 is falling for it.

Ahk I think I sort of understand. I think my problem is I don't know jack about servers lol. But it does sound like it wouldn't keep you hidden from players, and would be something the Devs would probs have noticed already, even if I do think the Devs aren't the best I still think this is something they would notice.

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JoshBot3000 wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

OK I see ladder and Colognoisseur and wyp and a few others on. Some of yall with some sense take a look at the stuff naz said. Tell what part about what he told josh makes any sense? The story is so unbelievably easy to pick apart. I am seriously lmao at any1 who is falling for this.

Brady I didn't post this because I wanted D3 to look into it, which they are. Actively

Asking game players to comment on this shows a lack of sensitivity to the point. This is a matter for D3 to investigate. Not for you to defend nor anyone to prosecute. Honestly all your defending comes off as PR spin to deflect attention away from the issue at hand. Hopefully all these people will also ask for this thread to be closed & for D3 to finish & make a public announcement. If its true, everyone should get sandboxed. If not the game devs should say 100% clean & everyone here should say "sorry, it looked like something else but you are confirmed legit."

also THERE IS LOTS MORE EVIDENCE of malfeasance in my possession that is not posted here but that D3 has

We must all wait for D3

nuff said

I've been asking for a public announcement since day 1. My comments r directed a lot more at jozier buy u can't tell me u don't see how silly that story is.

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Natsu-dragneel612 wrote:

So could someone explain how this can be picked apart easily. I am honestly just curious to understand both sides opinions about this.

Yeah. We have a ton of evidence on the game protection from cheats -- I mean that it is completely missing. So creating exploits is just a matter of willingness. What is said in the chat is definitely doable technically.

Whether it was actually done and actually used by someone, or actually used by the named parties I can't tell, but it really beats me why on earth one would talk about it in so concrete terms if it was just made up.

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Colognoisseur wrote:

After the last round of this when Ice IX was asked within the Q&A he mentioned Flo98 by name and said he/she is an outlier when it comes to style of play. That indicates to me that Flo98 was looked at and at least on a surface level no obvious impropriety was found.

Actually it only implies DU decided to not pursue the case or issue an action. I can think a long list of reasons for that even if they are internally convinced the play is foul.

Certainly if some group keeps up foul practices with passive or active help from developers will not make our position any better.

(we had several topics even half year ago about how trivial it would be to make most kind of cheats completely impossible by proper server-side management of account data, no change ever happened in that direction so I ust assume DU likes the game this open to any client-based exploit.)

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Psykopathic wrote:

Get it yet? He was being sarcastic about us cheating. Gave the lamest possible story as to how we did it. Now every1 is falling for it.

Look If I had my IQ halved to that 183 would still refrain from talking completely plausible **** meant as sarcasm, especially when already subject to which hunt from many directions.

So I just use Occam's razor until BETTER source of information turns up.

Can you at least clarify for us if Naz is actually a smart guy or an **** dumb one acting up? If you explicitly vote for the latter I rest the remainder of the case as that actually puts in some sense.

_RiO_

Natsu-dragneel612 wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Natsu-dragneel612 wrote:

So could someone explain how this can be picked apart easily. I am honestly just curious to understand both sides opinions about this.

Naz said he doesn't have to use shields because he has "his own server" to delay us being able to be seen. Which would mean we unshield, attack on some delay, and then re shield. Yet somehow having some magical undetectable server that delays us being hit keeps us from shielding. Which is what it's helping us do. Apparently.

Get it yet? He was being sarcastic about us cheating. Gave the lamest possible story as to how we did it. Now every1 is falling for it.

Ahk I think I sort of understand. I think my problem is I don't know jack about servers lol. But it does sound like it wouldn't keep you hidden from players, and would be something the Devs would probs have noticed already, even if I do think the Devs aren't the best I still think this is something they would notice.

If the game communicates over plain old TCP, then -even on an encrypted connection- the only thing you'd need to do is set up a personal SOCKS proxy that buffers outgoing traffic awaiting a manual release. Then use the window awarded by the buffered outgoing traffic to finish all your matches flipping the switch and letting the queued traffic roll through and then quickly reshielding. (I think there are even some generic SOCKS proxies with that kind of functionality built-in.)

But ofcourse that is something that would only work if the developers forgot to check for and sanitize against weird timestamps on TCP packets. Sure, preventing packet timing attacks is something that competitive games even as old as freakin' Quake III got right, but hey; I'm sure we can count on the developers to foul that one up...

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Psykopathic wrote:

u can't tell me u don't see how silly that story is.

We very well saw several times what server lag does with the game. When you played games and score was not registered until much later. And you got points based on well outdated scores. And others saw you at low points so not attacked. Not from exploit (though we can't tell if it was just internal problem or induced), just "naturally". Whoever was around at the proper time could gain a huge advantage.

We know their server is all too happy to be confused by all kind of stuff from forged resources to timing. I just don't get after playing this long how you come up with the "silly" part.

Demiurge_Will

pasa_ wrote:

Actually it only implies DU decided to not pursue the case or issue an action. I can think a long list of reasons for that even if they are internally convinced the play is foul.

We've banned every player that we've found cheating.

(We can never know if we've caught everybody, of course.)

(we had several topics even half year ago about how trivial it would be to make most kind of cheats completely impossible by proper server-side management of account data, no change ever happened in that direction so I ust assume DU likes the game this open to any client-based exploit.)

Most of what has been written on this forum about how cheating works is inaccurate.

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Demiurge_Will wrote:

We've banned every player that we've found cheating.

(We can never know if we've caught everybody, of course.)

Wow, thanks for the first official note. So we then can assume all the people flagged out by jozier in recent threads and still in the game are considered legit by DU.

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Most of what has been written on this forum about how cheating works is inaccurate.

Maybe, but the description how your server accepts any kind of **** (and all MY posts in the genre that surely exceed 100) are properly accurate. What leaves your design naked to exploits, all kinds, even if actual ones might be described inaccurately on the forum.

I hope you don't deny that purchases of all kind of goods DID happen using forged HP and ISO. And that games using instakill or hull healts WERE actually accepted by the server.

Then with some chance got annuled much later, after the fact on reports or some heuristics. But you still did NOTHING to cure the root of the problem that would prevent the whole mess for good.

DubbaHuss

Most of what has been written on this forum about how cheating works is inaccurate.[/quote]

So glad you chimed in to give us this vague non-answer, not like it's important or upsetting or anything that the top team in the game may be running circles around any anti-cheating mechanic you may have in place.

_RiO_

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Most of what has been written on this forum about how cheating works is inaccurate.

Oh come on! Other threads on these forums have had links to sites that were offering trainers for download that would hand players one-hit-kill and infinite health. Trainers that are being maintained with each and every patch release of the game and that have updates released no later than a day after official patches! It's bloody freaking ridiculous!!

Don't you think it's about damn time your people did something about that **** instead of dismissing the entire argument because 'most of what has been written' here was inaccurate?

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

(we had several topics even half year ago about how trivial it would be to make most kind of cheats completely impossible by proper server-side management of account data, no change ever happened in that direction so I ust assume DU likes the game this open to any client-based exploit.)

Most of what has been written on this forum about how cheating works is inaccurate.

Since I'm assuming you've worked to counter all the cheats you know how to counter, what makes you so sure about the accuracy or inaccuracy of the cheats you AREN'T countering right now?

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gamar wrote:

Since I'm assuming you've worked to counter all the cheats you know how to counter, what makes you so sure about the accuracy or inaccuracy of the cheats you AREN'T countering right now?

_RiO_ wrote:

Oh come on! Other threads on these forums have had links to sites that were offering trainers for download that would hand players one-hit-kill and infinite health. Trainers that are being maintained with each and every patch release of the game and that have updates released no later than a day after official patches! It's bloody freaking ridiculous!!Don't you think it's about damn time your people did something about that **** instead of dismissing the entire argument because 'most of what has been written' here was inaccurate?

DubbaHuss wrote:

So glad you chimed in to give us this vague non-answer, not like it's important or upsetting or anything that the top team in the game may be running circles around any anti-cheating mechanic you may have in place.

pasa_ wrote:

Maybe, but the description how your server accepts any kind of **** (and all MY posts in the genre that surely exceed 100) are properly accurate. What leaves your design naked to exploits, all kinds, even if actual ones might be described inaccurately on the forum. I hope you don't deny that purchases of all kind of goods DID happen using forged HP and ISO. And that games using instakill or hull healts WERE actually accepted by the server. Then with some chance got annuled much later, after the fact on reports or some heuristics. But you still did NOTHING to cure the root of the problem that would prevent the whole mess for good.

As brief as his post was, I'm thinking his post is being interpreted it in a far broader sense than intended. We are playing armchair quarterback. Some of us might know game development better than others, but they still have more information than we do. And please don't bash Demiurge_Will. Has anyone noticed that IceIX doesn't visit anymore?

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Actually it only implies DU decided to not pursue the case or issue an action. I can think a long list of reasons for that even if they are internally convinced the play is foul.

We've banned every player that we've found cheating.

(We can never know if we've caught everybody, of course.)

(we had several topics even half year ago about how trivial it would be to make most kind of cheats completely impossible by proper server-side management of account data, no change ever happened in that direction so I ust assume DU likes the game this open to any client-based exploit.)

Most of what has been written on this forum about how cheating works is inaccurate.

We have lots of examples of people using 1 hit kill hacks that are still floating around active.

over_clocked

stephen43084 wrote:

you may not be using jailbreak or root , but if you are playing by a different set of rules than everyone else, by definition you are cheating you violating the spirit of the rules and gamesmanship.

Uh, what's wrong with jailbreaking and rooting a phone? Serious question here Mine is Lenovo from China and I needed to manually root it to customize it better for my country, it displayed leftover hieroglyphs and stuff. Nuthin' else.
Oh wait I'm on Steam anyway.

Sadly the tweet is no longer seen. I would probably recognize sarcasm if there was any. But then again if it's Naz...

Unknown

Naz said a bunch of stuff. I saw what he said. Only those that know Naz, or know the details of what Naz claims to have done can really begin to have an opinion. I dont know Naz and I dont know the details (the facts, notwithstanding his statements) so it's pretty much just gossip. Its nothing worth repeating.

over_clocked

Yep, thanks anyway, Bugpop, curiosity killed the cat

In hopes that Will visits again:

What about Season brackets changing post-factum? I can understand once (presumably a cheater or two get sandboxed) but shouldn't the bracket size then stay that way? It's not the first Season ending that I notice bracket changing sizes willy-nilly back and forth post-factum. Today's one hour and 10 minutes span:



Just curious as to what is happening.

Unknown

sms4002 wrote:

Let's see some bank statements showing how much hp you are buying per pvp. It could def make sense, remember the first sentry pvp? mickey got up to 1300 on the first day because of the delay in attacks and points so they were hitting seed teams for 25 points all the way to the top. If you could somehow manipulate that, it would allow for crazy scores.

Sure - want my tax return and drivers licence too?

That sentry pvp was during their server glitch when everyone else was making out like bandits on the previous pvp (it was the overlapping friday ones) which i had already shielded out. So I gained on sentry and got left behind on the other one.

Not everyone wants to play the game the way x-men do, but this is like accusing late bracket entrants of "cheating" their way to a bracket win with only 10 minutes play. If you don't like the game mechanics that's fine but we didn't design it.....

And if we did have our own laggy server then our scores would be much higher than they are

Unknown

mikeydollar7 wrote:

And if we did have our own laggy server then our scores would be much higher than they are

Naz explicitly said in that chat fragment the the applicant is NOT supposed to go really high to avoid this very attention. So they would not be if he enforces this policy by actually kicking deviants.