True Healing Discussion (Live 6/25)

mohio

Another question, let's say I am using Patch/Spidey. If my Patch gets damaged and starts regen'ing, but then spidey "fake-heals" Patch back to max, will Patch be able to "true heal" himself back to full in the subsequent turns? It seems like he *should* be able to, but under the current rules of the game, I don't think he will.

Spoit

Narkon wrote:

They try to make sense of temporary and "true" healing and they offer an explanation with the nerf to try and justify the change. How about you make a change that makes sense and cut down the time it takes to fully heal a downed character? 8 hours to heal a hero? I guess you really want to to drive away people, don't you?
So how can we heal heroes now? Oh, wait, I guess I should say offer 'true' healing to our heroes. Only with healing packs? How about dropping the ridiculous HP price for healing packs then?
Sigh. P2P all the way.

I'm not seeing an explanation?

Unknown

jozier wrote:

Spidey is now legitimately the worst character in the game.

Spidey: "Hey, I have more HP than bullseye"

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

- Ares (Dark Avengers): Sunder - This ability is more a moment of weakness than actual damage, so Ares gains health back when the weakness passes.

This description probably needs to be changed, since it would logically imply that if Ares wins a match before the cooldown ends, he should get that health back.

IceIX

gamar wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Discussion? Guess we are supposed to GUESS that the heck the terms temporary and other words mean?

How about writing down in plain English up front and/or provide some example of what happens in-game and after the game.

I assume it works like D&D's temporary hit points:

Certain effects give a character temporary hit points. When a character gains temporary hit points, note his current hit point total. When the temporary hit points go away [in MPQ I assume this is when the battle ends] the character’s hit points drop to the noted hit point total. If the character’s hit points are below his noted hit point total at that time, all the temporary hit points have already been lost and the character’s hit point total does not drop further.

Pretty much exactly correct. Temporary Healing abilities will heal for that battle only, then those hit points will go away. True Healing abilities will heal just how abilities currently do in-game.

Unknown

Does temporarily healing still effect your scaling in events?

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

- The following abilities are considered temporary healing:

- Black Widow (Original): Anti-Gravity Device - This ability uses gravitic fields that lets heroes fight more easily despite injuries. It doesn't heal them of these injuries however. - Spider-Man (Classic): Web Bandages - These bandages help heroes fight through pain but do not provide actual healing. - She-Hulk (Modern): Reprieve – She-Hulk allows for the team to take a rest from combat for a moment and gather their strength but does not heal any wounds.

[/list]

So if I am reading this correctly, once a match is finished, the "temporary" healing goes away and downs our heros?!?

If this is truly the case, then you guys are going in the wrong direction!!!
Not to say that healing hasn't been over abused, because it has. But it is not the players fault that these mechanisms have been over abused.

1- BECASUE YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GAVE THEM TO US! 2- Because MMR and Scaling are so tinykittied up most of the time, that our only choice is to use a healing character if we want to sustain play time.

And since I have been a member of this forum, my opinion of the Dev's and the game has improved, but if this is the
direction we are going, then it's going to slide right back to my "this is a cash grab" mentality. Because honestly, if
you are changing the "healers" power to remove the heal at the end of the battle, but not fixing game play issues first,
it just screams: "GO BUY HEALTH PACKS!"

Not to beat a dead horse, but there are so many game play fixes that are needed.

-MMR not matching people correctly. -Scaling (over and under) -AI cheats (powers triggering early, CD tiles remaining when they shouldn't be there.) -People being greyed out of events (Causing us to lose covers, HP, and ISO) -Servers crashing (which has gotten slightly better, but there is still work to be done) -etc etc etc

And what you are rolling out instead of game play fixes is nerfs to the healers? Are you serious?!?

Can I please just have my money back now? I won't even be greedy. Just give me the $40 back that I spent this past week.

Unknown

This is the worst change they've made so far. The healing system is really and truly broken even more than it was before. This risks rendering the game unplayable.

I'm going to beg everyone: whatever you do DO NOT BUY HEALTH PACKS. It's only going to encourage this sort of thing. I had debated actually spending some money during the sale but - since ICEIX hinted something like this was coming, didn't. I'm glad. They're not getting my money until they fix the healing system. Period. This breaks the game.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

Narkon wrote:

They try to make sense of temporary and "true" healing and they offer an explanation with the nerf to try and justify the change. How about you make a change that makes sense and cut down the time it takes to fully heal a downed character? 8 hours to heal a hero? I guess you really want to to drive away people, don't you?
So how can we heal heroes now? Oh, wait, I guess I should say offer 'true' healing to our heroes. Only with healing packs? How about dropping the ridiculous HP price for healing packs then?
Sigh. P2P all the way.

I'm not seeing an explanation?

I meant how they split the healing to true and fake healing and they offered a believable explanation like with Sunder "... This ability is more a moment of weakness than actual damage... ".

IceIX

ZenBrillig wrote:

IceIX wrote:

- Ares (Dark Avengers): Sunder - This ability is more a moment of weakness than actual damage, so Ares gains health back when the weakness passes.

This description probably needs to be changed, since it would logically imply that if Ares wins a match before the cooldown ends, he should get that health back.

Hmm, interesting point and not sure if it's been otherwise over looked. I'll poke around in the bug database and see if that's the case. It's somewhat of an edge case as most uses of Sunder (that isn't done by the AI) don't end matches before it resolves, but it's still something to look at.

Unknown

If those vague smoke signals are supposed to mean anything, I'm guessing that Spidey will now have locked down his role as "Worst 3*" to go along with his long-term position as "Worst 2*." Heckova job, Parker.

Based on other games that use temporary health, I expect it works like this:

Health pool of 1000, has taken 700 damage, currently at 300 health. Healed by OBW for 500. Health pool now holds two values--300 "real" health and 500 "temp" health for 800 total. Next hit is for 200 damage, which is subtracted from the "temp" health pool buffer. Now at 300 "real" and 300 "temp". Healed by OBW for 500. Health is now 300 "real" and 700 "temp"; the last 100 healing is wasted overflow. So long as future damage in the fight does not cut all the way through the "temp" pool and reduce "real" health, at the end of the fight, that hero's health will be set to its "real" value--300/1000.

If this is the actual implementation and I'm not missing details--which would be easy, it's not like the OP was an actual explanation or anything--"healing" will actually work as a buffering damage shield that requires the hero to have already taken damage to be effective. Naturally, OBW will be a required member in every 2* team, since she can't benefit you any more on the bench--"working as intended", no doubt, since we rarely see her in play any more at the 2* or 2*->3* transition level.

Edit: Oh great, now Ares' Sunder will have another unfixable bug attached to it. "Edge case," my ****.

Unknown

So yeah, thank You for another feature which makes players' life harder.

Thank You.

Der_Lex

Without any further explanation, this sounds an awful lot like 'better spend money on health packs from now on if you want to play more than 3-5 nodes in a row'.

Which is an awfully big stick when compared to the improved progression reward carrot.

IceIX

Miaomew wrote:

Does temporarily healing still effect your scaling in events?

No.

Dayv

I think the big question is whether the characters revert to the lower of their final health and health at time of the first healing, or whether they simply lose the full value of healing from their final health. If it's the latter, a whole lot of characters healed in a battle will come out KO'ed.

Second biggest question is how temporary and true healing will interact. I will be shocked if that isn't bugged on release.

Unknown

Now it makes sense why they added the extra HP in pvp progression. It is offered so "freely" because we will need it to pay for healing packs. And here I thought they were generous. Better start stockpiling HP, or even better, start playing a "true" F2P game.

Unknown

Another thing - this makes the game truly pure pay to win. People who can afford to buy health packs will dominate the leaderboards, and everyone else might as well quit. This could truly kill the game.

Spoit

Is there any plans to change any of the other systems to accommodate these? Or is the 8 hours of downtime for 3*s working as intended?

MajinDavid

When will this start?

Dayv

Will skill descriptions be updated to make the distinction clear? The She-Hulk one "gives allies a burst of health" already avoids using the word "heal" specifically, so I'm guessing this is at least intended.