***** Ghost Rider (Robbie Reyes) ***** - Rebalance Details (10/26/21)

123457

Comments

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    Yeah, we get what we get and don’t get upset, but I do think it’s worth communicating what matters to us. Robby was one of the better “internally consistent” designs before, and now he is slightly disjointed because of what feels like an arbitrary change. He would have been good with the red and black changes and a number pump and dump. I have to imagine that he was given another CD to force some Hawkeye synergy, or maybe Abigail? But for me that was not a successful change and I’d rather have kept his old power by a long shot.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    I am pretty confident his damage output would have been much higher if it had been left alone, so that’s probably what happened. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    Probably, they find it too strong if they kept the 300% tiles destruction increment and aps gained with the increase in match damage. Of course, they could dial down the % and aps gained, but it might be met with a worst impressions than
    changing the power totally.

    Let's assume they presented the rework GR with say:

    100% tiles damage destruction bonus and ap cap of 1 ap per green/black/red.

    How would you have reacted? I expect 100% of the knee-jerk reaction to be 100% "nerf"!

    With a new power, at least the reactions are split, and not a 100% negative reaction.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    By that you mean 100% additional damage, and no matter how many repeaters went off you would only gather a single AP of each color?

    yes, that would have been a nerf but at least you could still run him with Sighclops and use green as an anti-hulk and anti-thor, and any AP gain you got is far and away superior to 0 AP gain.

    I admit that I am probably biased since he was my transitional 5* and I had to use him a TON until I got Doom champed, but to me Hell Ride was his X factor, chain whip being way too vulnerable to the then-prevalent Kitty meta and the now-prevalent Wanda meta to use, and his black being fine when you got the AP, it feels like his soul has been removed.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    Yes, and yes, I agree it's still better than nothing. 

    Probably first impression was a big factor. Over time, players might think that it's better than nothing, but they'll still remember it as a nerf. I think one of the reworked 4* gave such impressions. Was it Mr Fantastic?


  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mr. Fantastic and 4* Kingpin were both sort of nerfed, Kingpin's was only a buff if he is paired with goons in PVE on the opponent side but he absolutely became less useful for players who can only partner him with tile movers. HIs black used to be fireable any time, and better with CDs out, and now it can't be fired at all unless at least one CD is in play. As I understand it, Mr. F has been touched more than one time though, so my perception of the most recent rework was definitely a step down from what I believe was the buff he'd been given previously.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,502 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kingpin was both nerfed and buffed at the same time but it was only the player who suffered as he normally comes in PvE with some handy countdown generating goons which made his new black power just fine and dandy...against us.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Only his black power was nerfed? How about purple and yellow? I quite like his purple power to generate tons of yellow aps. 8 I think?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/26649/kingpin-wilson-fisk-updated-8-22-17

    You can see his original kit behind the spoiler tag
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Actually I find his current black power better since he can deal AoE but you need 3 cds. His black power, while cheap (6ap), deals Level 5 - 2309 + 2959 bonus damage. Maybe, back then, in August 2017, 6 black aps for this amount of damage is considered high?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    The big nerf was that you didn't used to need a CD in play to fire it at all. Now you have to have fired his yellow unless he is partnered with someone else who creates CDs to do anything with it. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,502 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    The big nerf was that you didn't used to need a CD in play to fire it at all. Now you have to have fired his yellow unless he is partnered with someone else who creates CDs to do anything with it. 

    This and Kingpin's yellow is not cheap but also actually does decent things that you would be happy for the countdown tiles to resolve to achieve.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    His yellow is actually superior to Coulson's in some ways, so running the two of them together even with that much overlap was pretty good in those old days.
  • MoosePrime
    MoosePrime Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    The big nerf was that you didn't used to need a CD in play to fire it at all. Now you have to have fired his yellow unless he is partnered with someone else who creates CDs to do anything with it. 
    Also, it used to destroy the countdown tiles, now it removes them.  The old way triggered 4* Deadpool's Countdown for What damage, the new way does not.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    That's a good synergy. Was he paired with Medusa back then before his nerf?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    He was only used when boosted
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    With that in mind, it doesn't seem to be a big deal.  :D
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    The current mega-boost 5* game is very reminiscent of the state of the 4* game when I transitioned to 4* play tbh. If you have them, you're using the boosted characters with whatever synergy you can muster, if you don't have them you're definitely not feeling too cool about hanging on to points unshielded lol. Back then, it was pretty difficult to cover older 4*s like Kingpin and C4ge, who seemed so hard-hitting to me on boost weeks. I was doing things like trying to figure out if certain characters were boosted more frequently than others so I could make sure I had at least one boosted character every week, stuff like that. I never figured out that pattern if there was one. I think there must be players doing that now with the 5* boost weeks.

    I had KP set as my bonus hero target for ages with no luck at all for the longest time. Then by the time I had him, this change went into effect, and he was like...not good really. It's fine, he wasn't key to anything I was doing, but it's not unlike the Danver5 situation for me where I spent something like 3 months finishing her up and then only had her for a month before the silent nerf went into effect. Only difference is that we got a whole announcement and explanation thread for Kingpin, and i think they ran System Reboot along with it to give everyone a cover. 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,012 Chairperson of the Boards
    I can only speak from my personal experience of actually using 4* Kingpin competitively during a time when 4* were the top of the metagame.

    Kingpin was a damage dealer.  His yellow was quite bad but self-fed so it was castable.  Also at this time there was very little of value to do with yellow AP so there wasn't much use as a feeder.  You'd cast purple then yellow, then use his black to blow up those CD tiles for good cheap damage.

    I do remember using him with Deadpool.  I don't remember using him with Medusa.  I think by the time Medusa showed up, we'd moved to a 5* metagame.  Deadpool and Kingpin are both quite old.

    He was actually a pretty solid, internally consistent design.  I have no idea why he was nerfed.  By the time that happened I wasn't using him for anything.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    I mean, he wasn't "nerfed" because we were using him for anything, he was "rebalanced" to be a better leader of goons in PVE. That may have coincided with SCL9 or 10 launching, and they may have wanted that for difficulty? I can't recall that clearly when that was in relation to those things. He is definitely a better opponent now though.

Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.
Sign In
Register

Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.
Sign In
Register

Quick Links

Categories