***** Ghost Rider (Robbie Reyes) ***** - Rebalance Details (10/26/21)

ThaRoadWarrior

Interesting variation: replace Knull with OML. This protects you from Kitty teams until you are ready to fire your first power, at which point OML will create strikes passively. At lvl 452, reluctant hero drops a pair of 396pt strikes every power, which compares pretty favorably to Knull who by player turn 3 has only created one 336pt strike anyway. I re-spec’d C4rol to generate more AP, and now every time you fire anything you get some burly strikes. You are trading out Knull’s modern health and match damage for the true heal and probably faster strike generation. May work better on Wanda teams as well.

Wonko33

so what do you guys like him at? 5-3-5?

ThaRoadWarrior

I like him at 5/3/5, same as I always ran him.

Borstock

I took TRW's advice and tried some Knull/OML teams with C4rol and GR in PvP. It definitely works. Part of the problem was I sold my max-champ C4rol, so I was only working with a lvl 296. But it didn't feel like a viable option against any of the metas (which I think TRW even said).

Another issue is that most all of the 4* characters don't play up in PvP anymore. You pretty much have Polaris,  counters to Polaris, and Coulson when you want to use Hawk5ye. I'm personally more comfortable using GR with Phil and Clint, though it's not as fast as the old WorthyCap shenanigans.

Overall, I like the buff. He will absolutely be viable boosted, now.

ThaRoadWarrior

I just discovered Goblin can generate 1,000pt strikes of you drop his purple CD on black tiles; I only ever used it on red for direct damage or blue for the stun. His powers are pretty expensive to use against real teams in simulator, but you can get those tiles up to high values in pretty short order.

HoundofShadow

Goblin is a swiss knife to me: Strike tiles, protect tiles, up to 27 aps steal, 2-turn team stun (if all 3 cds are resolved), direct damage, up to 12 random tiles destruction.

I mostly use his pumpkins for aps steal and stun.

jredd

hopefully not a 1-off. there's a few handfuls of old characters that are in far more desperate need of a boost that RR. 

HoundofShadow

For the past 3 rebalances (Dr Ock, Archangel and Ghostrider), reviews have been underwhelming.

Here's the rating I'm sensing from both forums:

Intention to rebalance old 5*: 5/5 rating
Execution: 2/5 rating
Usability: usable only when boosted

Overall, I say they've been tanking as far as rebalancing characters is concerned. They have tried three different rebalancing methods:

1) total overhaul of abilities: Dr Ock
2) some tweaks: Archangel
3) a combination of 1 and 2: Ghost Rider

All rebalances seem to be pretty much a failure.

I mean, players should be upfront and say that they want rebalanced characters to be as good as BRB/Kitty/Apocalypse etc. If it's going to be as good as GED, Onslaught etc, the dev is wasting their time because players will use them only when boosted. They should just continue releasing new characters instead.

ThaRoadWarrior

If you aren’t going to rebalance characters in a way that makes them viable against the good characters, what’s the point?

Bzhai

I wish they would start by updating the less problematic classics first.

For example: Phoenix, Green Goblin, Silver Surfer, Black Bolt, Hawkeye are pretty good mechanics wise, just need to adjust their numbers.

HoundofShadow

Precisely. This year they have many "DOA" or "mediocre" 5* released. If new 5* with better match damage and health aren't used, then what's the point of rebalancing 5* if they aren't as good as meta? At best, it's a good PR exercise to keep the hopes up.

Kolence

HoundofShadow said:

For the past 3 rebalances (Dr Ock, Archangel and Ghostrider), reviews have been underwhelming.

Here's the rating I'm sensing from both forums:

Intention to rebalance old 5*: 5/5 rating
Execution: 2/5 rating
Usability: usable only when boosted

Overall, I say they've been tanking as far as rebalancing characters is concerned. They have tried three different rebalancing methods:

1) total overhaul of abilities: Dr Ock
2) some tweaks: Archangel
3) a combination of 1 and 2: Ghost Rider

All rebalances seem to be pretty much a failure.

I mean, players should be upfront and say that they want rebalanced characters to be as good as BRB/Kitty/Apocalypse etc. If it's going to be as good as GED, Onslaught etc, the dev is wasting their time because players will use them only when boosted. They should just continue releasing new characters instead.

I don't know who these mythical players you keep referencing are, Hound... Please remember to use words like "some", "many", "few", "a tiny minority of" or the like, so your statements don't sound so definitive in cases they're not really.

I can speak only for myself, though.

As far as GRRR rebalance, I'm happy his health (match damage too) has been updated. That makes him more durable, at least for this moment in time. Red is also clearly better for the fortification, as well as damage, same as Black. However, Green is much less reliable now. For 9 AP, and the stuff it does, it should have been fortified too. At the very least, it should have been able to keep the fortification when jumping, once you fortify it, like Kity's repeater. I trully don't understand the logic about these powers with repeaters that are:

1) not doing anything or nothing much, up front, when fired
2) are expected to "tick" a few times, or survive for several turns in other words, to actually achieve some effects
3) don't have several tiles to start with when fired
4) cost 8+ AP
5) don't have any (beneficial) effect if matched away or destroyed
[ 6) may have a count of 3 turns ]
... and still are not fortified.

They just don't survive long enough to do what they're expected to do. 

In this case, it is a Countdown now. But it acts like a Repeater in many ways, it actually was a Repeater before, so I think it's warranted to look at it and compare with somewhat similar powers.

You mentioned BRB, Kitty and Apoc. I'm so glad.

Let's see their CDs or Repeaters and what they do...

BRB - only 6 AP, fortified, superb AP generation feeding itself plus green AP also. 
Kitty - free tile, fortified, good damage, shuts down other characters who would rely on one or a few special tiles - unless they can gang up to confuse it...
Apoc - not fortified but 4 tiles, still only 7 AP, boosting his own cheap multi-hit powers if not others' (as a cherry on top, provides protects for BRB when they team up)

There are even more synergies when you pair up some of these three, both between them and with other powers they bring, but nevermind.

Now, don't get me wrong, Robbie's new Green is not quite as bad as Danvers' repeaters (or Cyclops') for instance, and being a fast, repeating Countdown now, it opens some new (or older...) synergies for him, like Hawkeye or Carol. But it's still too unreliable for its cost, at least on pvp side, these days. I think. We'll have his pvp real soon and we'll all be able to try it in practice some more and see how he fares!

TheEyeDoctorsWife

HoundofShadow said:

Precisely. This year they have many "DOA" or "mediocre" 5* released. If new 5* with better match damage and health aren't used, then what's the point of rebalancing 5* if they aren't as good as meta? At best, it's a good PR exercise to keep the hopes up.

This was the reaction I was expecting from the forum , “ If you aren’t making it a meta don’t even bother because we don’t give ….” Although I do love a good carrot dangling by the devs . 

Tony_Foot

Isn’t this what so many people wanted with old classics, a health and match damage buff? It’s all I wanted as I can carry on ignoring them and hoard for ones I want with less pressure.

The moment they start buffing these classics to meta or near meta so many F2P players like myself who didn’t champ them all are in trouble. Splitting between and rework vault and chasing latest would be beyond us.

I would be happier if they did a better job on latest releases. They don’t have to be meta, but having some use once or twice per week would be something. 

Bad

That was a good rebalance. A classic 5* and hence a character not representing any threat now has changed for to be like a new 5* release. This is a point that always should be appraised.
To say if he is not meta don't bother to rebalance it's pitiful. Someday players will learn that this game is not about meta nor broken characters but about synergy and variety.
No broken character super fast super though will be released again, imo.
His green:
Before they were random repeaters that the only good thing they did was giving AP. Depending on luck creating them on top of board, and not matching bottom rows, his usual destination  was the useless bottom line one surrounded by special tiles or TU or yellow purple blue. I don't see the great appeal in that.
Now it appears and disappears in all the board. And the tiles destroyed don't give AP. Obviously this power it's not for him anymore. It's a power for board manipulation for to create synergy with another characters. I think it's pretty funny, a lot more then previous one. 
Personally if I had that character champed I would be really glad and I would use him with new joy.

HoundofShadow

Those players I'm referring to are largely players who want the dev to rebalance older 5*, but when the rebalance is done, their comments are typically usable when boosted, which is pretty much the same as when they were not rebalanced, and they never made it known that they want the rebalanced character to be as good as meta. So, they continue to ask for rebalance of old 5* but short of telling rhe dev that they want rebalanced characters to be as good as meta characters.

I think it's quite pointless to compare every rebalance or new release to meta characters. The reason why a meta is considered meta is because you have trash tier, bottom tier, mid-tier and whatever tier around to compare with. If every character is good or meta, does good characters exist or they are simply the bare minimum? On top of that, meta characters have pretty much made some players "lazy": Lazy to think, lazy to strategise etc. They want quick, easy and simple wins. 

ThaRoadWarrior

I wasn’t suggesting he be rebalanced to BE meta, just to be viable to play when these other characters exist. 9ap to drop a CD that might do 5-7k damage the following turn is not a viable power in today’s game. In the case of Ghost Rider, if nothing else has changed but his health and match damage, and a slight cost reduction on his green to say 7, he could actually have been a counter to iHulk for clogging up and continuously removing green from the board. Now he is at least as vulnerable to all the same old characters he always was. 

Daredevil217

They should have just worked a board shuffle into his red or black powers. That’s it. Kept all the other powers the same, with the new buffs. Or have his green state that when one (or all) of his repeaters hits the bottom row, the board shuffles. That wouldn’t make him OP and would actually make him more fun/synergistic. Imagine looking forward to that third repeater hitting the ground rather than dreading it. 

Now before I get lumped into Hound’s strawmen, even if I don’t love the new Green, I love the rebalance on the whole and hope many more get the same treatment. But that’s because for me, boosted 5s ARE my PVP meta now. So only use when boosted is a great compliment. They get to be meta for a few events then some other “non-metas” become meta for the next few. And so on. I think god boosts may have been the single best thing that happened to me as a 5* player. And that’s a big statement given shards are a thing. Variety is just that important. So jumping up 20 spots in the rankings (arbitrary number and yeah I know I have to update those rankings) might not mean much if he’s not top 5, but on the weeks he’s boosted it might mean the difference between still riding the bench and being the guy you build around the next few events (depending on the other three boosted). 

So, thank you for the cool new toy!

entrailbucket

I wrote a really obnoxious long-winded thing in another thread about two kinds of MPQ players and how they don't understand each other and can't talk to each other, and this is just...that.

For players who want to compete and win stuff, this buff is irrelevant.  Robbie didn't help you win before and he won't help you win now.

For players who don't care about winning, Robbie gets much better and becomes a fun new thing to try out and build around.

Both attitudes are valid depending on each player's goals.

helix72

I don’t feel like every character has to be meta, but some toons are so bad that even when boosted they’re not useful (e.g. Ultron). If they went from “not useful when boosted” to “useful only when boosted”, I’d still call that a success.