Discussion on the value of Killmonger and Onslaught

System
System Posts: 911 Critical Contributor
edited October 2020 in MPQ Character Discussion
This discussion was created from comments split from: MPQ 7th Anniversary Details.

Comments

  • Omegased
    Omegased Posts: 282 Mover and Shaker
    DAZ0273 said:
    am already building up LT's in a nice pile as Killmonger ...don't really interest me so was going to be looking at Heimdall depending also on what 5*DP turns out like.
    No doubt I will be tempted even though Apocalypse in particular is a lost cause without some sort of feeder.
    For what it's worth, Killmonger is great. His red power alone can be absolutely devastating depending on the rest of your team.
    I have him with Profx/Onslaught, and if I get a good match four - the games over. If I don't? get enough red and, then the games over. WIth Cascades, his red has taken down 2 and a half champed 5s in some games. There's a lot of chance, but it's extremely powerful
  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 982 Critical Contributor
    Omegased said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    am already building up LT's in a nice pile as Killmonger ...don't really interest me so was going to be looking at Heimdall depending also on what 5*DP turns out like.
    No doubt I will be tempted even though Apocalypse in particular is a lost cause without some sort of feeder.
    For what it's worth, Killmonger is great. His red power alone can be absolutely devastating depending on the rest of your team.
    I have him with Profx/Onslaught, and if I get a good match four - the games over. If I don't? get enough red and, then the games over. WIth Cascades, his red has taken down 2 and a half champed 5s in some games. There's a lot of chance, but it's extremely powerful
    Killmonger/America/Karnak made a joke of everything in Balance of Power. Personally I feel his red is slightly superior to Jessica's, which itself is a very solid power. It's also generally superior to Thor's, although I'm not sure how it measures up to Havok's.

    His purple is also a great nuke, on par with Prof's and superior to Loki's.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 5,453 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2020
    Omegased said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    am already building up LT's in a nice pile as Killmonger ...don't really interest me so was going to be looking at Heimdall depending also on what 5*DP turns out like.
    No doubt I will be tempted even though Apocalypse in particular is a lost cause without some sort of feeder.
    For what it's worth, Killmonger is great. His red power alone can be absolutely devastating depending on the rest of your team.
    I have him with Profx/Onslaught, and if I get a good match four - the games over. If I don't? get enough red and, then the games over. WIth Cascades, his red has taken down 2 and a half champed 5s in some games. There's a lot of chance, but it's extremely powerful
    Killmonger/America/Karnak made a joke of everything in Balance of Power. Personally I feel his red is slightly superior to Jessica's, which itself is a very solid power. It's also generally superior to Thor's, although I'm not sure how it measures up to Havok's.

    His purple is also a great nuke, on par with Prof's and superior to Loki's.
    I agree with you on KM's red, and think that JJ is a pretty god comp for him.  I think he is someone who is likely be thought of better in a few months time than he was on release, and am currently trying to decide if I should go for him + heimdall + DP, or wait for the next 5* release (sorry onslaught, I don't think you make the cut).  I think KM will settle in to a place just behind the PVP meta, but with a chance to go up if/when some other meta character that relies on critical tiles comes along. 
    But I must part with you comparing his purple nuke to Prof's.  It can't be spammed, costs more ap, is unlikely to do much more damage, and can't get anywhere near to the utility of Prof'x 6-in-1 power.

  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 982 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:
    But I must part with you comparing his purple nuke to Prof's.  It can't be spammed, costs more ap, is unlikely to do much more damage, and can't get anywhere near to the utility of Prof'x 6-in-1 power.

    True that. I was purely comparing their base damage and AP costs (21553 for 8 AP for Prof, 23204 base for 10 AP for Killy). But yes, as an all-round skill Prof's Purple is far superior. Probably the best purple power in the tier.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,446 Chairperson of the Boards
    Do people think Killmonger is better than Onslaught? I champed both and find Onslaught more useful to be honest.

    Yeah KMs red is nice, but it can backfire as well. His Purple is eh, and his Black is incredibly niche.

    Onslaughts Green is also nice and his Blue helps get him even more cascades. Purple sucks though.

    I prefer Onslaught but maybe I'm wrong. I don't mind being proven wrong. I just don't see it yet.

    Doesn't matter in the long run since neither is meta, but I'm liking the discussion!
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 5,453 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ok first of all, I have absolutely no idea why I was flagged. I was making a joke about Killmonger's Black power being named "Repatriation", and how DAZ only has Killy's Black covers. People were actually triggered by that? To those who flagged, PM me what your thought process was.

    Back to the conversation. Yes, Onslaught is generally more useful than Killy, who is more niche. I just like having Killy as an option for a Red/Purple outlet, as my only other Red/Purple is BeardCap. I just wish his Black was more consistent. For example, when the enemy matches a Crit tile, always steal say 3 Red AP and deal a small amount of damage. And lock every Crit tile generated, not just the ones generated by match-5s.

    I think this is just a case of snark not translating to text.  I would not (and did not) flag your post.  but I can see why it might seem a bit off to someone scanning the thread quickly.  especially given the character at issue and the, ah, current salience of race in american public discourse.
    Anyway, re: KM v. Onslaught
    I think KM's black is the most interesting thing about him, and the reason he might someday have a role in the meta.  He is the currently the best 5* in the game for punishing enemy cascades and criticals, and we know from the (now long ago) meta run of Jeanbuster that this can be a winning tactic in PVP.  I would like the power a whole lot more if had better damage mitigation built in, as punishing the enemy for critical matches doesn't much good if the match damage still drops your team. 
    I have a harder time ranking onslaught.  His green is a nice enough damage dealing passive, but because it destroys the tu tiles, it's a game of diminishing returns (and also doesn't play nice with okoye).  His blue is a decent power for causing predictable cascades, but requires good board luck to cause massive cascades or deal massive damage.  His purple is the only invis in 5*  tier at the moment, which has value, but it's also unusually fragile invisibility, which is a concern.  Overall, I think I would come down on "Onslaught has slightly more value right now because of his high health and obvious pairing with Prof, but I think KM has more upside if the right partner or opponent comes along because that black passive could be nasty in certain metas.  Heimdall seems noticeably more useful to me than either of them due to true healing and ap/fortification shenanigans."
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 945 Critical Contributor
    Anyone anyone that is hating on KM has not used him with Karnak/Chavez. All currently boosted in this event conveniently. 

    Just melting opponents.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 5,453 Chairperson of the Boards
    jp1 said:
    Anyone anyone that is hating on KM has not used him with Karnak/Chavez. All currently boosted in this event conveniently. 

    Just melting opponents.

    That would be a really fun team for sure.  but is it really viable in PVP?  Maybe when both 4*s are boosted, but otherwise won't teams like hulkoye or gritty or apoc just burn down the 4*s in a few turns?
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,492 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    jp1 said:
    Anyone anyone that is hating on KM has not used him with Karnak/Chavez. All currently boosted in this event conveniently. 

    Just melting opponents.

    That would be a really fun team for sure.  but is it really viable in PVP?  Maybe when both 4*s are boosted, but otherwise won't teams like hulkoye or gritty or apoc just burn down the 4*s in a few turns?
    I'm just guessing here, as I don't have a viable KM, but I'm assuming that the purpose of that team is purely offense.  I'm guessing that you go in not really caring about what happens on defense -- rather, just prepare for multiple retals.  Which isn't a bad thing, if you can just hit back again hard enough.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 6,204 Chairperson of the Boards

    jp1 said:
    Anyone anyone that is hating on KM has not used him with Karnak/Chavez. All currently boosted in this event conveniently. 

    Just melting opponents.

    I'm not hating on him - RNG is hating on him! No melting opponents for me! A 3 cover start, albeit in a single colour, is not terrible but I sincerely doubt I will get very far in getting covers for him with only 1 session left in Latest unless I have the most blinding luck ever.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 945 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:
    jp1 said:
    Anyone anyone that is hating on KM has not used him with Karnak/Chavez. All currently boosted in this event conveniently. 

    Just melting opponents.

    That would be a really fun team for sure.  but is it really viable in PVP?  Maybe when both 4*s are boosted, but otherwise won't teams like hulkoye or gritty or apoc just burn down the 4*s in a few turns?
    Yes, it is purely offense. Except when boosted to god tier like in BOP then I was winning as often as losing when I got hit. However it is just amazing on offense and fast. For PVE it is great because health pack usage is low compared to Hulkoye. If you played for wins in PVP it would be viable as well in a pick 3 scenario. 

    For instance, after the AP is built up enough to start firing powers Karnak will do upwards of 70k with the Crits added in. KM red has similar potential. That is two massive nukes on a team that passively drops opponents while you collect AP. Not bad at all.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 5,453 Chairperson of the Boards
    jp1 said:
    Vhailorx said:
    jp1 said:
    Anyone anyone that is hating on KM has not used him with Karnak/Chavez. All currently boosted in this event conveniently. 

    Just melting opponents.

    That would be a really fun team for sure.  but is it really viable in PVP?  Maybe when both 4*s are boosted, but otherwise won't teams like hulkoye or gritty or apoc just burn down the 4*s in a few turns?
    Yes, it is purely offense. Except when boosted to god tier like in BOP then I was winning as often as losing when I got hit. However it is just amazing on offense and fast. For PVE it is great because health pack usage is low compared to Hulkoye. If you played for wins in PVP it would be viable as well in a pick 3 scenario. 

    For instance, after the AP is built up enough to start firing powers Karnak will do upwards of 70k with the Crits added in. KM red has similar potential. That is two massive nukes on a team that passively drops opponents while you collect AP. Not bad at all.

    Absolutely, Karnak hits like a beast, and KM will punish any crit tiles that you happen to leave on the board.  But glass cannon does not begin to describe a team with two 12k health 4*s in the current meta.  hulkoye will do that much damage on turn 2 if they get a good board.  The meta now is near-instant massive damage.  So all of the 'very good once they have the ap to get started' teams are pretty out of favor in high-end pvp.  I am sure this team is super fun to use farming retals or playing for casual wins.  
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 945 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:
    jp1 said:
    Vhailorx said:
    jp1 said:
    Anyone anyone that is hating on KM has not used him with Karnak/Chavez. All currently boosted in this event conveniently. 

    Just melting opponents.

    That would be a really fun team for sure.  but is it really viable in PVP?  Maybe when both 4*s are boosted, but otherwise won't teams like hulkoye or gritty or apoc just burn down the 4*s in a few turns?
    Yes, it is purely offense. Except when boosted to god tier like in BOP then I was winning as often as losing when I got hit. However it is just amazing on offense and fast. For PVE it is great because health pack usage is low compared to Hulkoye. If you played for wins in PVP it would be viable as well in a pick 3 scenario. 

    For instance, after the AP is built up enough to start firing powers Karnak will do upwards of 70k with the Crits added in. KM red has similar potential. That is two massive nukes on a team that passively drops opponents while you collect AP. Not bad at all.

    Absolutely, Karnak hits like a beast, and KM will punish any crit tiles that you happen to leave on the board.  But glass cannon does not begin to describe a team with two 12k health 4*s in the current meta.  hulkoye will do that much damage on turn 2 if they get a good board.  The meta now is near-instant massive damage.  So all of the 'very good once they have the ap to get started' teams are pretty out of favor in high-end pvp.  I am sure this team is super fun to use farming retals or playing for casual wins.  
    Yes, also if you play progression in SCL 10 PVE they are better than Hulkoye. I barely take damage at all, and while not instant, they aren’t slow by any means...especially while boosting AP. Cleared CN and 5E without a single health pack or loss. Of course this is with boosted toons.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 1,873 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:

    I'm not hating on him - RNG is hating on him! 
    About that my killmonger is 5/2(both upgraded with shards)/2(1 with shards) and 6 saved covers. You can imagine my posibly censored opinion of RNG. I think they forgot to release other covers than repatriation.
    DAZ0273 said:
    @fight4thedream - not wishing to be a pain but how are the posts discussing Killmonger on topic either?
    Because it can be the alternative to FF store, that could be a good excuse (discussing killmonger, not discussing Flagman doings).


    And about killmonger, I think his red power is clearly for 5* characters. Take 2 more with different colours and one of the team will be matching nukes for sure.
    What happens on that 4* powered team is that both karnak and chavez multiply on time their damage, altought possibly the one who is crushing is karnak which strong color is black and on this event appears a lot daken or green goblin with black strong too so the power works.
    About onslaught, I use him many times because not having okoye covered and never wasting TU like a true miser, I found that destroying TU tiles actually improves my play.
  • Omegased
    Omegased Posts: 282 Mover and Shaker
    Bad said:
    About onslaught, I use him many times because not having okoye covered and never wasting TU like a true miser, I found that destroying TU tiles actually improves my play.

    Would agree with That for Onslaught - I think he's also quite underrated. the AP gain from removing Team up tiles (and therefore cascades) is fierce. include Profx and depending on the board you can do 15k+ passive damage from 1 match4.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,326 Chairperson of the Boards
    Omegased said:
    Bad said:
    About onslaught, I use him many times because not having okoye covered and never wasting TU like a true miser, I found that destroying TU tiles actually improves my play.

    Would agree with That for Onslaught - I think he's also quite underrated. the AP gain from removing Team up tiles (and therefore cascades) is fierce. include Profx and depending on the board you can do 15k+ passive damage from 1 match4.
    And though he doesn’t play well with Okoye, he plays great with Apoc (who also boosts characters).