Tremayne said: The cascades are extremely prevalent at the moment, but it is not my experienced that Greg’s gets more cascades than I do.However, you should be able to compete with a decent collection of cards. Which events are you playing - standard or legacy?
jtwood said: The AI is definitely cheating. That’s why we win so much. The AI used to play fair when Manu was around. We whined too much about losing, so they made the AI cheat to let us win more.
bken1234 said: jtwood said: The AI is definitely cheating. That’s why we win so much. The AI used to play fair when Manu was around. We whined too much about losing, so they made the AI cheat to let us win more. I’m going to have to agree here. Even I get perfect scores and neither my Urza or my blue Finale are mastered.
SuperCoolGeezer said: There are a few theories I have about the actual AI difficulty. These are repeatedly occurring trends/observations I have noticed.Let me preface by saying there is definitely a "hard mode" AI and a "easy mode" AI. Lately, I have observed a trend of "flexible" or hard/easy combination mode AIs. Furthermore, the AI for my account has been getting progressively more difficult (which to me is a huge annoyance and burden, as it elongates my games). NOTE: I play this game to relax; I don't want a constant challenge; if I wanted a challenge or stress out, I can go play Arena. Another thing before we start is... there are a TON of variables: - Does player lvl affect AI difficulty and/or occurrence?- Does VIP vs non-VIP affect AI difficulty and/or occurrence?- Was the most recent, "no cards work" bug linked to AI difficulty? (based on its random occurrence, no relation to specific cards, only player-side affected, etc)- Is there a specific pattern/rotation that we face "hard mode" AI?- Is the AI programmed to specific events?- Player PW vs AI PW selection (certain things will be more noticeable depending on how much overlap or opposition there is with on-color/off-color mana bonuses)- What exactly is "hard mode" AI? Is it really the AI is hard or is it other surrounding factors?- Actual deck AI is playing- etc, etc1. The AI difficulty setting appears to be different from event to event. Perhaps we should call it behaviors. AKH AIs seem to behave a bit more aggressively in their gem matching that show a noticeable difference when compared to other AIs. Perhaps we could say the AI is programmed an extremely specific way and is less flexible. However, I have a feeling some AIs are locked to events while others may not be; I cannot find a definitive trend. 2. If you watch closely at the AI casting gate lands; you will notice the AI has higher success in getting matches from fewer gates/reinforcements than if you were to have more gates/reinforcements and/or other land converters. HOWEVER, this is based on the AI difficulty settings. What I mean is that if your AI is on "hard" mode you will notice this; however, if your AI is on "easy" mode, you wont notice this. 3. If you encounter a "hard mode" AI and you don't have any gem converters, you will see a stark difference in your potential gem matches vs the AI gem matches. The AI will have more favorable matches. (Honestly, just playing without some gem conversion is usually pretty miserable)4. If you encounter a "hard mode" AI. There comes a time when you have a gem board layout with very very few potential options. At most you will literally have only 1 or 2 potential gem matches. In many cases, these gems will not be very favorable to you, i.e. not your colors, provides an extremely good set up for the AI (this one is more pronounced when you literally only have 1 gem match option, period). This is more rare and you really have to be more observant to notice it; I also believe it is more prevalent during coalition events. 5. Flexible/Combo AIs. There is a off the bat "hard mode" AI who will cascade like crazy and be very aggressive. Strangely this AI will noticeable switch to an "easy mode" AI after a set number of lethal turns. If you can ride out this wave, you will win. 6. Flexible/Combo AIs #2: This Al will only switch to "hard mode" under certain circumstances. One of the more consistent circumstances is low AI life total. Almost like a last burst of glory, the AI will literally suddenly ramp up and hand dump if its life total is very low (This is a very rough guess but from about 30-40% life remaining). This is more pronounced if you have a very bad, slow deck. 7. The starting planeswalkers (gid1, jace1, lil1, nissa1, chandra1) appear to cascade more than other planeswalkers. It appears to be a handicap system? The good thing about this is that it appeared to be working both ways. If I play or if the AI plays, there appears to be more cascading.8. Very recently, the AI has been getting very odd 5-match cascades. It has become much more prevalent than in the past. I can't even explain it; but, I just couldn't believe how many times I have seen the AI cascade out of nowhere. The funny thing about this instance is.. it's usually an off-color match (depends on what colors your PW and the AI PW is) and if you take it; you will see the most ridiculous mana cascading ever. And its usually one of those matches, where you definitely have matches in your colors available but no matter which combination of many on-color matches you choose, you can only get a single match - it is near impossible to match 2 sets of gems (the gem board is laid out like that). However, on a whim, if you take what you believe your AI opponent will take.. bam.. rewarded. 9. The gem board has specific rotations. There are definitely specific games where the gem board is not in your favor or the gems dropping from the "sky" are definitely the colors of your opponent. Much more pronounced when you play a PW that directly opposes the AI PW. So if you are Bolas, and the AI is Huatli2; it may be hard to notice if you get a gem converter out; but, you will notice there are very few gems in your colors and there appears to be a higher drop rate of your AI's PW colors. Another way to see this similar kind of thing is to be playing matching PW colors (so both you and the AI play Bolas1), there are games where you will notice the gems are shifting away from the Bolas primary colors and a bunch of white and green gems are dropping. In this instance, you win if you get the last on-color match; however, if you don't you could be in a world or trouble and you must immediately prioritize off-color mana cascading to speed up the off color gem dropping phase. 10. The AI gets more difficult during specific times, I have found the difficulty more pronounced the day preceding and during coalition events. But this was more of a "bleeding" difficulty, as events surrounding the coalition event suddenly appeared to get more difficult. The problem with this is I can't tell if its actually a rotating system (i.e. you play x games, then on your nth game you face the "hard mode" AI) or if its actually slotted for specific events. Very hard to isolate this trend 11. In coalition events, you will face the "hard mode" AI in at least 1 game. If you survive and win this, you will get a perfect score. This was in the past when I played competitively; lately, I'm not so sure its only 1 game anymore. It appears they increased its frequency a little. etc etc
Ampersand said: SuperCoolGeezer said: There are a few theories I have about the actual AI difficulty. These are repeatedly occurring trends/observations I have noticed.Let me preface by saying there is definitely a "hard mode" AI and a "easy mode" AI. Lately, I have observed a trend of "flexible" or hard/easy combination mode AIs. Furthermore, the AI for my account has been getting progressively more difficult (which to me is a huge annoyance and burden, as it elongates my games). NOTE: I play this game to relax; I don't want a constant challenge; if I wanted a challenge or stress out, I can go play Arena. Another thing before we start is... there are a TON of variables: - Does player lvl affect AI difficulty and/or occurrence?- Does VIP vs non-VIP affect AI difficulty and/or occurrence?- Was the most recent, "no cards work" bug linked to AI difficulty? (based on its random occurrence, no relation to specific cards, only player-side affected, etc)- Is there a specific pattern/rotation that we face "hard mode" AI?- Is the AI programmed to specific events?- Player PW vs AI PW selection (certain things will be more noticeable depending on how much overlap or opposition there is with on-color/off-color mana bonuses)- What exactly is "hard mode" AI? Is it really the AI is hard or is it other surrounding factors?- Actual deck AI is playing- etc, etc1. The AI difficulty setting appears to be different from event to event. Perhaps we should call it behaviors. AKH AIs seem to behave a bit more aggressively in their gem matching that show a noticeable difference when compared to other AIs. Perhaps we could say the AI is programmed an extremely specific way and is less flexible. However, I have a feeling some AIs are locked to events while others may not be; I cannot find a definitive trend. 2. If you watch closely at the AI casting gate lands; you will notice the AI has higher success in getting matches from fewer gates/reinforcements than if you were to have more gates/reinforcements and/or other land converters. HOWEVER, this is based on the AI difficulty settings. What I mean is that if your AI is on "hard" mode you will notice this; however, if your AI is on "easy" mode, you wont notice this. 3. If you encounter a "hard mode" AI and you don't have any gem converters, you will see a stark difference in your potential gem matches vs the AI gem matches. The AI will have more favorable matches. (Honestly, just playing without some gem conversion is usually pretty miserable)4. If you encounter a "hard mode" AI. There comes a time when you have a gem board layout with very very few potential options. At most you will literally have only 1 or 2 potential gem matches. In many cases, these gems will not be very favorable to you, i.e. not your colors, provides an extremely good set up for the AI (this one is more pronounced when you literally only have 1 gem match option, period). This is more rare and you really have to be more observant to notice it; I also believe it is more prevalent during coalition events. 5. Flexible/Combo AIs. There is a off the bat "hard mode" AI who will cascade like crazy and be very aggressive. Strangely this AI will noticeable switch to an "easy mode" AI after a set number of lethal turns. If you can ride out this wave, you will win. 6. Flexible/Combo AIs #2: This Al will only switch to "hard mode" under certain circumstances. One of the more consistent circumstances is low AI life total. Almost like a last burst of glory, the AI will literally suddenly ramp up and hand dump if its life total is very low (This is a very rough guess but from about 30-40% life remaining). This is more pronounced if you have a very bad, slow deck. 7. The starting planeswalkers (gid1, jace1, lil1, nissa1, chandra1) appear to cascade more than other planeswalkers. It appears to be a handicap system? The good thing about this is that it appeared to be working both ways. If I play or if the AI plays, there appears to be more cascading.8. Very recently, the AI has been getting very odd 5-match cascades. It has become much more prevalent than in the past. I can't even explain it; but, I just couldn't believe how many times I have seen the AI cascade out of nowhere. The funny thing about this instance is.. it's usually an off-color match (depends on what colors your PW and the AI PW is) and if you take it; you will see the most ridiculous mana cascading ever. And its usually one of those matches, where you definitely have matches in your colors available but no matter which combination of many on-color matches you choose, you can only get a single match - it is near impossible to match 2 sets of gems (the gem board is laid out like that). However, on a whim, if you take what you believe your AI opponent will take.. bam.. rewarded. 9. The gem board has specific rotations. There are definitely specific games where the gem board is not in your favor or the gems dropping from the "sky" are definitely the colors of your opponent. Much more pronounced when you play a PW that directly opposes the AI PW. So if you are Bolas, and the AI is Huatli2; it may be hard to notice if you get a gem converter out; but, you will notice there are very few gems in your colors and there appears to be a higher drop rate of your AI's PW colors. Another way to see this similar kind of thing is to be playing matching PW colors (so both you and the AI play Bolas1), there are games where you will notice the gems are shifting away from the Bolas primary colors and a bunch of white and green gems are dropping. In this instance, you win if you get the last on-color match; however, if you don't you could be in a world or trouble and you must immediately prioritize off-color mana cascading to speed up the off color gem dropping phase. 10. The AI gets more difficult during specific times, I have found the difficulty more pronounced the day preceding and during coalition events. But this was more of a "bleeding" difficulty, as events surrounding the coalition event suddenly appeared to get more difficult. The problem with this is I can't tell if its actually a rotating system (i.e. you play x games, then on your nth game you face the "hard mode" AI) or if its actually slotted for specific events. Very hard to isolate this trend 11. In coalition events, you will face the "hard mode" AI in at least 1 game. If you survive and win this, you will get a perfect score. This was in the past when I played competitively; lately, I'm not so sure its only 1 game anymore. It appears they increased its frequency a little. etc etc Yeah, well you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
critman said: Volrak said:It doesn't ever decide to hold cards back for greater effect later; it plays what it can on suitable targets as soon as it can. PW abilities are tried randomly, not according to any strategy. Choice of targets is based on fixed heuristics. Not sure I believe this. I'm sure many of us have had the experience of Greg sitting on a hand full of cards he supposedly 'can't cast', only to dump three of them onto an identical board a few turns later.Yeah, yeah, I know, 'citation needed'. Sadly I don't record my games as a matter of general practice because as we all know too much load on the phones CPU can cause a reset... If getting a phone call can cause one, I'm hardly going to risk running a screen recorder in the background.If anyone *does* have a video of this supposedly happening that we can analyse, I'd love to see it!
Volrak said:It doesn't ever decide to hold cards back for greater effect later; it plays what it can on suitable targets as soon as it can. PW abilities are tried randomly, not according to any strategy. Choice of targets is based on fixed heuristics.
Of course the AI is cheating. There are countless combinations of cards and effects that influence each other. I can't imagine an AI considering all of these possibilities. Except AlphaGo maybe. But a human can. Thats why the AI needs another advantage. As annoying as it is...
madwren said: People feel it's cheating because the skill-to-luck ratio is different than what they expected--especially for anyone who's played paper Magic, where the game proceeds in a very orderly fashion. You can make perfect decisions on your side, but if Greg gets a 60-mana cascade, dumps his hand, and leaves you with three turns of loyalty matches, then it can be hard to overcome. Imagine that in Standard (not Vintage) paper Magic. "Play an island, tap for 1 mana, summon merfolk, go." "Play a mountain. Tap for 40 mana, summon EVERYTHING."
jtwood said: madwren said: People feel it's cheating because the skill-to-luck ratio is different than what they expected--especially for anyone who's played paper Magic, where the game proceeds in a very orderly fashion. You can make perfect decisions on your side, but if Greg gets a 60-mana cascade, dumps his hand, and leaves you with three turns of loyalty matches, then it can be hard to overcome. Imagine that in Standard (not Vintage) paper Magic. "Play an island, tap for 1 mana, summon merfolk, go." "Play a mountain. Tap for 40 mana, summon EVERYTHING." I think this is a good summary of the perception issue. I lost a match yesterday where Greg dumped his hand, which included Quartwood and Bolas Vanguard. I was using Song and discarding down to 1 card each turn. Bolas exiled it. I never got the Song train going again and lost in a couple turns, because Quartzwood will do that. The reason I lost is in some part due to Greg getting a lucky cascade (the deck had no gem changers in play or in hand). But the other reason I lost - and the reason I was mad about that loss - is because I failed to play the best version of the deck (Song with either Tamiyo or Bone Miser to mitigate the discard). It was an irritating reminder that the best deck is the best deck for a reason. Playing sub-optimal decks exposes us up to Greg's randomness and gives him an opening.tl;dr - We never lose to the AI. We lose when poor planning on our part coincides with a bout of extreme luck in favor of the AI.
madwren said:my best approach (both during deckbuilding and actual play) involved the mitigation of bad luck