Supports seem a bit useless (general discussion)

SUPPORTS - so... I don't understand. Only ppl with great rosters and resources can get high level supports. But supports are useless to those players... I mean... They only are used in pve and those players need zero help in that part of the game... Am I missing something here?
Seems to me that instead of winning a game in 5 turns, with a support you will win it in... 5 turns :)

Every other players just won't see much (or any) improvement with lv2 or lv3 supports it seems.
So why spend so many months developing this almost "invisible" feature"?
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Comments

  • QuebbsterQuebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some supports can make a critical difference in PvE. Not every time, but often enough. If you can win in 3 or 4 turns instead of 5 it's a pretty significant advantage.
  • ColognoisseurColognoisseur Posts: 748 Critical Contributor
    There are supports which can make big differences even if they are just for pve. Even the one you put on PvE superstar Thanos can make a one to two turn difference in winning.

    The only reason supports are "invisible" is only a few people are using them. That does not equate to them being useless just unavailable.
  • TPF AlexisTPF Alexis Posts: 3,648 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some can have a pretty strong effect even at a low rank. Particularly the ones that Fortify Special tiles, or have Synergy Perks with specific characters. The Milano is probably the best example: on Grocket, regardless of rank, it sets a countdown at the start of the game that does some damage. It doesn't really matter how much damage it is, because if you're running Grocket, you have a bunch of Strikes out, and even if it only did 1 damage on its own, that's one more dip on all those Strikes.
  • bbiglerbbigler Posts: 1,400 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    The usefulness of supports follow the same tiers as characters:

    1* support: practically useless 
    2* support: mostly useless
    3* support: could be useful
    4* support: probably useful
    5* support: could be a game changer

    But the usefulness of supports is also based on your roster strength. A 3* support is probably useless to a 5* roster but it would be useful to a 2* roster. The usefulness also depends on the type of perks it has: 

    Reducing damage from enemy powers - useless to 4*/5* rosters
    Increasing max health - useless to 4*/5* rosters
    Increasing match damage - useful for 4* rosters and below
    Dealing extra damage - useful to 4* rosters and below 
    Creating special tiles - useful to 4* rosters and below, except for Kitty teams
    Generating AP in some way - useful to all tiers
    Fortifying Specials - useful to all tiers
    Increasing Critical Multiplier - useful to 5*s only
    Health bursts and Healing - mostly useless to 4*/5* rosters

    There are some exceptions to the above, but that's how I rate their usefulness. Some of the perks above would be better if they increased something by a percentage instead of a flat rate, such as match damage, damage from powers, health increases, reducing damage and healing. For example, a 4* Vibranium Ore increases damage from powers by 700, which is great for 3* powers but nearly unnoticeable to 5* powers. If it was a percentage increase, like 30% then it would be useful to all tiers not just the lower ones. 
  • DormammuDormammu Posts: 3,379 Chairperson of the Boards
    Am I missing something here?
    Yeah. Supports can be really useful, even at low perk levels. Let me give you examples of a few I've put to use:

    Royal Talon Fighter (Rank 2, level 100): Equipped to Okoye. Every team-up match gives me 21% chance of an extra team-up AP. Each extra TU AP gives Okoye's black boost an additional 1500 damage. Plus, if she has 5 TU AP, the fighter lowers her power costs by 1.

    Element Guns (Rank 4, Level 200): Equipped to Kitty Pryde. When Kitty makes a match, there's a 62% chance to fortify a friendly special tile. That adds longevity to Grocket's tiles against active opponents (tile matchers) in PvE who might otherwise match away too many of his tiles. The guns also buff the user's yellow and purple match damage significantly, two of Kitty's colors, to ensure she can tank those colors and trigger the fortification more often.

    Web-Shooters (Rank 3, level 150): Equipped to 5-star Spidey. They create 2 web tiles on a match-5. Not a game-changer, but when his red and green abilities rely on the presence of web tiles for maximum effect this can come in handy and allow me to use his blue to stun more often.

    The Milano (Rank 2, level 50): Equipped to Grocket. See @TPF Alexis's post above.

    Wong (Rank 2, level 100): Equipped to Dr. Strange. Wong gives an extra blue AP 17% of the time on blue matches, and adds an extra turn of stun to Strange's blue 20% of the time. Again, not a game-changer but certainly useful.

    Are any of these going to help me win quicker in a match that last 5 turns? No, probably not. But they're all going to help me win in longer matches. By the time I'm into four clears of a hard/essential PvE node, very few matches are won in 5 turns. All of these have definitely helped me win many matches sooner than I would have otherwise.
  • Vins2Vins2 Posts: 162 Tile Toppler
    They're bound to come to pvp.  One of my pvp matches glitched in the captain america pvp and my DD5 strike tile got fortified I assume via support.  I'd rather they be useless or marginal so as not to throw off pvp equilibrium too much. 
  • mpqavsmpqavsmpqavsmpqavs Posts: 51 Match Maker
    I am playing at 3* land.

    I have  korg rank 3 level 100 support. 32%chance to gain 3 yellow ap at beginning.
    uses it with strange.

    Also have rank 1 level 50 stark tower.
    15%chance to gain 2 yellow ap at beginning.
    Uses with im40.

    My pve go team is strange,kk and im40.
    One of these supports works in almost every match.so just one yellow match helps me to finish matches quickly.

  • KenshinUKKenshinUK Posts: 83 Match Maker
    Small helping hands I find they provide.

    On Okoye I have the destroyer gun which, like the talon (i only have at level 1), also gives bonus TUs.

    On Strang3 I have Wong equipped. While the bonus blue is a nice bonus, the real star of the show is his ability to remove enemy countdown tiles when a friendly power is fired. This has saved my bacon from nasty aoe tiles like mindless ones countless times. Especially on occasion where said tile would KO my entire team from full hp!
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 2,571 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    How useful the supports are depends on where you are in the game, and what kind of playstyle(s) you like.

    If you are in 5-star land, supports that would be of interest are those that help you to gain additional ap when making match-3 or more, those that increase your ap at the start of the game, which ranges between +2 to +6, those that change who tanks certain colour, those that fortify special tiles, and maybe those that increase your true healing rate.

    The above applies to 3-stars and 4-stars as well. One of the purpose of Support is to let players tackle harder nodes. If you are in 5-star land, it might not help a lot since you can simply Thanos your way to victory.  If you are adventurous and open-minded about trying out different strategies, support could help you to execute your plan faster.

    One reason why Rank 1 and Rank 2 supports are perceived to be useless is because many players have forgotten what it is like to be a new player transitioning to 3-star land with their first two or three 3-star characters with 1-3 covers, and they are seeing things from where they are now (deep 4 and 5 star land).

    If we were to look at support holistically, it's useful to every players in various stages of the game.
  • T_REZ5000T_REZ5000 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    Gambit is my only champed 5* and I can attest that the fortification from chimichanga is extremely useful for him.


  • Projectus2501Projectus2501 Posts: 161 Tile Toppler
    Tks for your replies. I also hope supports come one day to PvP. Then they will make a huge difference
  • SymmeTreySymmeTrey Posts: 170 Tile Toppler
    My RTF, Korg, and Corvus Glaive make a huge difference for my favorite PVE team of Okoye/Medusa/3Thanos. But, Supports will always feel "tacked on" until they become part of PVP as well. As it is today, they are only usable in half the game.
  • brollbroll Posts: 4,723 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    SUPPORTS - so... I don't understand. Only ppl with great rosters and resources can get high level supports. But supports are useless to those players... I mean... They only are used in pve and those players need zero help in that part of the game... Am I missing something here?
    Nope, it's a poorly conceived and broken system that's not worth you wasting time on. Focus on the games actual bread and butter which is character rostering/leveling/champing. If you get one use if you want, but trying to chase them has a 95% chance of just frustrating you. Unless you roster is maxed up it's not worth it IMO.
  • turbomooseturbomoose Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
    I just realised I’ve got all the lower supports so there not much point in me opening a support token for lower levels until they release more 

    brigby, I hope there are going to be more ways to get higher levels soon other than the ridiculous vaults we get 
  • StraycatStraycat Posts: 962 Critical Contributor
    Supports are hit or miss, but they can be fun. I got Dazzler's pocket radio support, and it is pretty great. Any match she makes could turn red tiles into charged tiles, so she ends up making tons of red ap. But that support is worthless on any other character, and pretty much worthless if she isn't champed and boosted.
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 4,059 Chairperson of the Boards
    Straycat said:
    Supports are hit or miss, but they can be fun. I got Dazzler's pocket radio support, and it is pretty great. Any match she makes could turn red tiles into charged tiles, so she ends up making tons of red ap. But that support is worthless on any other character, and pretty much worthless if she isn't champed and boosted.
    Pocket Radio is one of the best Supports on a lot of characters, actually.  Each Support should probably be evaluated for how it effects your game and (here is it again) speed.  The Supports that add almost worthless Protect tiles and things like that are slowing you down for almost no benefit.  Pocket Radio is all match damage boosts - and relatively strong ones - with no banners or weak tile creation effects.  AND it can be used on any character.  If you have one, putting riso into it and equipping it seems like it will help a lot.
  • SpudgutterSpudgutter Posts: 716 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2019
    bluewolf said:
    Straycat said:
    Supports are hit or miss, but they can be fun. I got Dazzler's pocket radio support, and it is pretty great. Any match she makes could turn red tiles into charged tiles, so she ends up making tons of red ap. But that support is worthless on any other character, and pretty much worthless if she isn't champed and boosted.
    Pocket Radio is one of the best Supports on a lot of characters, actually.  Each Support should probably be evaluated for how it effects your game and (here is it again) speed.  The Supports that add almost worthless Protect tiles and things like that are slowing you down for almost no benefit.  Pocket Radio is all match damage boosts - and relatively strong ones - with no banners or weak tile creation effects.  AND it can be used on any character.  If you have one, putting riso into it and equipping it seems like it will help a lot.
    I just wish there were a better path to get them.  I dont have that support, and unless i get lucky with rng, i wont get it any time soon.  It isnt in any placement or progression rewards, i cant set a bonus hero to get it, etc.


    The only reason supports are "invisible" is only a few people are using them. That does not equate to them being useless just unavailable.
    This is a great line, but i have to ask, if they are unavailable, isnt that basically the same thing as invisible, thus useless? 
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,616 Chairperson of the Boards
    5*s do not have equal match damage strength, making which character tanks what color somewhat unpredictable (and making older 5* less valuable asatch damage values have been creeping up steadily).  Supports can be a great way to make sure that the character you want to tank is, in fact, tanking.

    AP and special tile shenanigans are also generally worthwhile.

    Some of the unique character effects are good (e.g., okoye + talon fighter).

    So supports have some value, but it takes a lot of resources to get a big enough stable of them to mix and match as necessary (not to mention the red iso to level them).

    System needs improvement, but is not entirely useless.
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