Bowgentle said:Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330.
DFiPL said: tchipley said: Tony_Foot said: Mines 452. I spent 7200 CP. I really went after Thor and B.B. Loki was a bonus, so quite easily people have a bigger one, I’m not a spender past the $2 deal. How do you save so many CP? I play regularly (to 10CP in PVP and Progression in PVE) and It takes me a month to save up 1000CP. What is the secret? Six months of exactly that.
tchipley said: Tony_Foot said: Mines 452. I spent 7200 CP. I really went after Thor and B.B. Loki was a bonus, so quite easily people have a bigger one, I’m not a spender past the $2 deal. How do you save so many CP? I play regularly (to 10CP in PVP and Progression in PVE) and It takes me a month to save up 1000CP. What is the secret?
Tony_Foot said: Mines 452. I spent 7200 CP. I really went after Thor and B.B. Loki was a bonus, so quite easily people have a bigger one, I’m not a spender past the $2 deal.
beyonderbub said: And above is why I don’t like to hoard. You delay getting roster to the point where champ levels spit out better rewards.
Dormammu said: Why waste resources on rubbish like Wasp? I like to think hoarding enables the player to make more of an impact by recruiting characters who can be difference makers..
Why waste resources on rubbish like Wasp? I like to think hoarding enables the player to make more of an impact by recruiting characters who can be difference makers..
beyonderbub said: The danger in hoarding and chasing the new meta (difference makers if you prefer) can be seen in the recent cautionary tale of Gambit. Folks who hoarded and built up him up dominated with a Gambit in the level 475-530 but post nerfbat, found it a struggle because all resources had been spent chasing him and fortifying him while ignoring the rest of their roster. Pull consistently and you get what you get; odds are the roster will build more evenly than if you blow hoards on just the "good" characters. Ultimately, to each their own. Personally I subscribe to a variant between the two styles. I will hoard CP to unload on a store like the recent Loki one where I like the other 5s offered as well (win-win regardless of any 5 pulled) but I will pull Latest Legends tokens as I earn them.
beyonderbub said: Bowgentle said:Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330. All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress.
KGB said: beyonderbub said: Bowgentle said:Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330. All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress. The pulls are not predetermined as in character and cover color. It's only the random number that's predetermined.By this I mean imagine that the random number for a pull is 1-1000 and currently there are 4 characters in a tier. Each one gets 250 numbers. So imagine your next pull number is 220 which would get you character 1 (who gets numbers 1-250). Then a new character is added so now each character then gets 200 numbers. If you then open a token you'll get character 2 (who has numbers 201-400) rather than character 1 which you would have gotten if you opened prior to the new character being added.It must work this way because players like me who hoard and then open tokens do immediately get new characters who have been added to the token list. If the character + color was predetermined then we'd have to flush out X number of pulls before we got a newly added character and that would cause a riot.So hoarding technically *changes* what you get when you pull due to dilution. KGB
beyonderbub said: KGB said: beyonderbub said: Bowgentle said:Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330. All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress. The pulls are not predetermined as in character and cover color. It's only the random number that's predetermined.By this I mean imagine that the random number for a pull is 1-1000 and currently there are 4 characters in a tier. Each one gets 250 numbers. So imagine your next pull number is 220 which would get you character 1 (who gets numbers 1-250). Then a new character is added so now each character then gets 200 numbers. If you then open a token you'll get character 2 (who has numbers 201-400) rather than character 1 which you would have gotten if you opened prior to the new character being added.It must work this way because players like me who hoard and then open tokens do immediately get new characters who have been added to the token list. If the character + color was predetermined then we'd have to flush out X number of pulls before we got a newly added character and that would cause a riot.So hoarding technically *changes* what you get when you pull due to dilution. KGB Quibbling over semantics. It will change during transition periods when they add new characters. However, if you are due to pull a 5* Wasp on your next Latest Legends token, there is no way to change that until some new 5* moves into Latest and possibly rotates her out of her spot, or "number" as you put it above. In that sense it is predetermined. You can't change the 4*s you are going to get either, unless you wait for the next 4*s to be introduced to the token pool tp rotate the predetermined 4*s out of their spots as well. You can hoard and wait if you prefer but unless you are packing max champs at every tier, you are "delaying" your roster progress by doing so.
broll said: beyonderbub said: KGB said: beyonderbub said: Bowgentle said:Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330. All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress. The pulls are not predetermined as in character and cover color. It's only the random number that's predetermined.By this I mean imagine that the random number for a pull is 1-1000 and currently there are 4 characters in a tier. Each one gets 250 numbers. So imagine your next pull number is 220 which would get you character 1 (who gets numbers 1-250). Then a new character is added so now each character then gets 200 numbers. If you then open a token you'll get character 2 (who has numbers 201-400) rather than character 1 which you would have gotten if you opened prior to the new character being added.It must work this way because players like me who hoard and then open tokens do immediately get new characters who have been added to the token list. If the character + color was predetermined then we'd have to flush out X number of pulls before we got a newly added character and that would cause a riot.So hoarding technically *changes* what you get when you pull due to dilution. KGB Quibbling over semantics. It will change during transition periods when they add new characters. However, if you are due to pull a 5* Wasp on your next Latest Legends token, there is no way to change that until some new 5* moves into Latest and possibly rotates her out of her spot, or "number" as you put it above. In that sense it is predetermined. You can't change the 4*s you are going to get either, unless you wait for the next 4*s to be introduced to the token pool tp rotate the predetermined 4*s out of their spots as well. You can hoard and wait if you prefer but unless you are packing max champs at every tier, you are "delaying" your roster progress by doing so. He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong. Let's expand what he said.Player A pulls every pull he can from latest when he get it.Player B hoards for long periods of time.Let's assume both players earn about 2 pulls per day. Over the 6 weeks between 5* characters change they would each get 84 pulls. Let's assume standard distribution, meaning each player get's exactly 12 5*s (4 for each).Let's also assume the RNG for each is the same, so the random numbers used for characters pulls are identical for the entire period.Player A gets:4 LumberCap4 Okoye4 WaspPlayer B get's noting because he hoards. If he pops his hoard as soon as the new character comes he get's0 LumberCap 4 Okoye4 Wasp4 Unannounced character.Now let's expand that over the 3 6 week cycles so triple all pull numbers.Player A now gets:4 LumberCap8 Okoye12 Wasp8 Unannounced character 14 Unannounced character 2Player B (assume he opens the day Unannounced character 3 enters get):0 Lumber0 Okoye0 Wasp12 Unannounced character 112 Unannounced character 212 Unannounced character 3Doesn't look the same to me....
broll said: He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong.
He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong.
beyonderbub said: broll said: He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong. Hypotheticals aside, my initial point stands: if you are meant to draw a 5* on your next token, it will remain a 5* pull - THAT is pre-determined. As long as they don't introduce new 5* characters, it will be the same 5* character. When they intro a new 5*, then the rotation will shift and you will pull a different 5*, but it's still a 5*.You can hoard if you want and pull once a 6-week cycle or hold it for 18-weeks for the next 3 5*s, you WILL BE delaying your roster progress in doing so and in the player B examples you post above, you will be hurting your progress by forcing yourself by choice to chase "Lumber, Okoye and Wasp" in the even more diluted Classics pool.I apologize for not expressly spelling out my intention with the initial statement: "All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress"
Blindman13 said: broll said: beyonderbub said: KGB said: beyonderbub said: Bowgentle said:Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330. All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress. The pulls are not predetermined as in character and cover color. It's only the random number that's predetermined.By this I mean imagine that the random number for a pull is 1-1000 and currently there are 4 characters in a tier. Each one gets 250 numbers. So imagine your next pull number is 220 which would get you character 1 (who gets numbers 1-250). Then a new character is added so now each character then gets 200 numbers. If you then open a token you'll get character 2 (who has numbers 201-400) rather than character 1 which you would have gotten if you opened prior to the new character being added.It must work this way because players like me who hoard and then open tokens do immediately get new characters who have been added to the token list. If the character + color was predetermined then we'd have to flush out X number of pulls before we got a newly added character and that would cause a riot.So hoarding technically *changes* what you get when you pull due to dilution. KGB Quibbling over semantics. It will change during transition periods when they add new characters. However, if you are due to pull a 5* Wasp on your next Latest Legends token, there is no way to change that until some new 5* moves into Latest and possibly rotates her out of her spot, or "number" as you put it above. In that sense it is predetermined. You can't change the 4*s you are going to get either, unless you wait for the next 4*s to be introduced to the token pool tp rotate the predetermined 4*s out of their spots as well. You can hoard and wait if you prefer but unless you are packing max champs at every tier, you are "delaying" your roster progress by doing so. He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong. Let's expand what he said.Player A pulls every pull he can from latest when he get it.Player B hoards for long periods of time.Let's assume both players earn about 2 pulls per day. Over the 6 weeks between 5* characters change they would each get 84 pulls. Let's assume standard distribution, meaning each player get's exactly 12 5*s (4 for each).Let's also assume the RNG for each is the same, so the random numbers used for characters pulls are identical for the entire period.Player A gets:4 LumberCap4 Okoye4 WaspPlayer B get's noting because he hoards. If he pops his hoard as soon as the new character comes he get's0 LumberCap 4 Okoye4 Wasp4 Unannounced character.Now let's expand that over the 3 6 week cycles so triple all pull numbers.Player A now gets:4 LumberCap8 Okoye12 Wasp8 Unannounced character 14 Unannounced character 2Player B (assume he opens the day Unannounced character 3 enters get):0 Lumber0 Okoye0 Wasp12 Unannounced character 112 Unannounced character 212 Unannounced character 3Doesn't look the same to me.... OK, but if you expand that out and Player A pulls everything right away and Player B hoards and pulls once a cycle, they eventually both have 12 of every character. The only real benefit of hoarding is being able to choose to skip a 5*. That';s not really a benefit either because you will eventually need to have everyone for their essentials.
broll said: beyonderbub said: broll said: He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong. Hypotheticals aside, my initial point stands: if you are meant to draw a 5* on your next token, it will remain a 5* pull - THAT is pre-determined. As long as they don't introduce new 5* characters, it will be the same 5* character. When they intro a new 5*, then the rotation will shift and you will pull a different 5*, but it's still a 5*.You can hoard if you want and pull once a 6-week cycle or hold it for 18-weeks for the next 3 5*s, you WILL BE delaying your roster progress in doing so and in the player B examples you post above, you will be hurting your progress by forcing yourself by choice to chase "Lumber, Okoye and Wasp" in the even more diluted Classics pool.I apologize for not expressly spelling out my intention with the initial statement: "All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress" Yes I was never disputing that 4* / 5* rate would change. However your last statement is still in my mind incorrect. If in my above example player B hoarded for a riciulous period of time. Let’s say 6 years simply for easy math with 6 weeks. Player As roster would progress to having 12 covers per 5*. Player B would get would get 208 covers for 3 characters and be able to max champ all 3. That’s drastically different roster progression. The main point I was trying to make is hoarding does alter roster progression. The longer the hoard the more drastically. So saying “so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress" is not correct.
beyonderbub said:I will hoard CP to unload on a store like the recent Loki one where I like the other 5s offered as well (win-win regardless of any 5 pulled) but I will pull Latest Legends tokens as I earn them.
Dormammu said: nonnel said: spend money, get CP Or you could just play.People say they can't hoard, that they lack the willpower or it bores them. It doesn't take that long to build up a sizable nest egg of pulls with regular play. I still open all my tokens every day, with the exception of the LTs. I scratch the token itch.I enjoy watching my hoard grow, every CP or LT added makes me smile, knowing that I will choose the opportune time to spend it - when I can maximize my pulls for the characters I want. It's smart to hoard around duds like Wasp and lie in the weeds, waiting for the right three to exist in latest legends. It's even smarter now that vaulting is no longer a thing, because you don't have to worry about maximizing the latest twelve 4-stars.The top players on these forums have been telling us that hoarding is the best way to fully cover 5-stars. I finally started listening to them and it turns out they're right.
nonnel said: spend money, get CP
beyonderbub said: broll said: beyonderbub said: broll said: He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong. Hypotheticals aside, my initial point stands: if you are meant to draw a 5* on your next token, it will remain a 5* pull - THAT is pre-determined. As long as they don't introduce new 5* characters, it will be the same 5* character. When they intro a new 5*, then the rotation will shift and you will pull a different 5*, but it's still a 5*.You can hoard if you want and pull once a 6-week cycle or hold it for 18-weeks for the next 3 5*s, you WILL BE delaying your roster progress in doing so and in the player B examples you post above, you will be hurting your progress by forcing yourself by choice to chase "Lumber, Okoye and Wasp" in the even more diluted Classics pool.I apologize for not expressly spelling out my intention with the initial statement: "All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress" Yes I was never disputing that 4* / 5* rate would change. However your last statement is still in my mind incorrect. If in my above example player B hoarded for a riciulous period of time. Let’s say 6 years simply for easy math with 6 weeks. Player As roster would progress to having 12 covers per 5*. Player B would get would get 208 covers for 3 characters and be able to max champ all 3. That’s drastically different roster progression. The main point I was trying to make is hoarding does alter roster progression. The longer the hoard the more drastically. So saying “so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress" is not correct. You and I fundamentally disagree on what is roster progression then. I would rather have many baby champ 5*s (2/mo x 6 years ~ 144 5* champs) that I use daily in that time to gain rewards/excel at pve and pvp than disappearing from the competitive scene, stalled at the same level, watching everyone move past me while I hoard for 6 years only to show up with 3 max champed 5s at the end of that. Hoarding denies you chances at champ rewards like more LTs or more CP to pull potential 5s or move champ 4s forward. That is the “delay” I’m talking about. Whether it’s for a month or 6 years, it stalls your chances at progressing your roster via champ rewards (tokens,cp, xp for iso to level your toons). It can be beneficial in short durations only if you have already gotten your current 5s stable where you want it to be (for me that’s champed and earning rewards) and saving up for next release. The other issue with hoarding is that results are not guaranteed when you bust that hoard. The longer you wait and the worse RNG treats you ( for example, 5000-10000 cp blown to attempt champing 3 Latest and you get no 5s or get enough 5s to cover the weakest of the trio up to level 475 but only a few covers for the other 2), the more inclined you are to quit the game after others have preached to you that hoarding was the solution to getting champ 5s. Meanwhile the person pulling daily, even if they don’t pull any 5s, now has a ton of 4s in the 320+ range giving out high level rewards and enjoying that roster daily in pve/pvp. Which player is better off? That’s a matter of opinion. Not correct or incorrect.