Level 456 Loki in a week. How??
Comments
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Bowgentle said:
Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330.2 -
DFiPL said:tchipley said:Tony_Foot said:Mines 452. I spent 7200 CP. I really went after Thor and B.B. Loki was a bonus, so quite easily people have a bigger one, I’m not a spender past the $2 deal.
Previously I hoarded 350and opened on okoye cap and JJ. Got okoye and JJ and 5 cap covers so called that quits at 200, leaving me 150 pulls left and built again.
After getting loki and co I was left with 120 LTS and 2000cp so not a huge leap to get ready for the 3 after loki.0 -
beyonderbub said:And above is why I don’t like to hoard. You delay getting roster to the point where champ levels spit out better rewards.
I remember the day Okoye entered the latest three. Hoards across the world were simultaneously being depleted. All of those players were happy to avoid Archangel and Chrome Rider for a shot at JJ and Okoye.0 -
Dormammu said:Why waste resources on rubbish like Wasp? I like to think hoarding enables the player to make more of an impact by recruiting characters who can be difference makers..
I like the idea of hoarding at face value IF it guaranteed the desired outcome worth busting your hoard for; however, we have seen that while RNG sometimes does "bless" some pullers but we also read about the folks busting their 500-700CP hoard and getting zero desired 5* covers (and quit thread soon follows). I don't see MPQ ever setting up a system that will guarantee 5*s pulls (like "streakbusters" mentioned above) because that just gives the advantage automatically to those who can acquire LTs and CPs faster than others and will just widen the current divide in roster strengths.
The danger in hoarding and chasing the new meta (difference makers if you prefer) can be seen in the recent cautionary tale of Gambit. Folks who hoarded and built up him up dominated with a Gambit in the level 475-530 but post nerfbat, found it a struggle because all resources had been spent chasing him and fortifying him while ignoring the rest of their roster. Pull consistently and you get what you get; odds are the roster will build more evenly than if you blow hoards on just the "good" characters. Ultimately, to each their own. Personally I subscribe to a variant between the two styles. I will hoard CP to unload on a store like the recent Loki one where I like the other 5s offered as well (win-win regardless of any 5 pulled) but I will pull Latest Legends tokens as I earn them.1 -
beyonderbub said:
The danger in hoarding and chasing the new meta (difference makers if you prefer) can be seen in the recent cautionary tale of Gambit. Folks who hoarded and built up him up dominated with a Gambit in the level 475-530 but post nerfbat, found it a struggle because all resources had been spent chasing him and fortifying him while ignoring the rest of their roster. Pull consistently and you get what you get; odds are the roster will build more evenly than if you blow hoards on just the "good" characters. Ultimately, to each their own. Personally I subscribe to a variant between the two styles. I will hoard CP to unload on a store like the recent Loki one where I like the other 5s offered as well (win-win regardless of any 5 pulled) but I will pull Latest Legends tokens as I earn them.Agree but for me I just level them to 450-455 at my rate of pulls and X months with Gambit or a Thor is better than no months. There's 15 or so in classics I can gladly ignore because they are worse than gambit even now. As long as you don't spend a small fortune to take one to 500ish then it's fine.I will chase the newer ones and Thor because creep only goes one way but Thor will always be a autopilot battery. He won't suffer power creep because he will always hide in the background like a little girl scared of a monster in the closet collecting AP for himself or someone better.1 -
beyonderbub said:Bowgentle said:
Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330.The pulls are not predetermined as in character and cover color. It's only the random number that's predetermined.By this I mean imagine that the random number for a pull is 1-1000 and currently there are 4 characters in a tier. Each one gets 250 numbers. So imagine your next pull number is 220 which would get you character 1 (who gets numbers 1-250). Then a new character is added so now each character then gets 200 numbers. If you then open a token you'll get character 2 (who has numbers 201-400) rather than character 1 which you would have gotten if you opened prior to the new character being added.It must work this way because players like me who hoard and then open tokens do immediately get new characters who have been added to the token list. If the character + color was predetermined then we'd have to flush out X number of pulls before we got a newly added character and that would cause a riot.So hoarding technically *changes* what you get when you pull due to dilution.KGB4 -
KGB said:beyonderbub said:Bowgentle said:
Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330.The pulls are not predetermined as in character and cover color. It's only the random number that's predetermined.By this I mean imagine that the random number for a pull is 1-1000 and currently there are 4 characters in a tier. Each one gets 250 numbers. So imagine your next pull number is 220 which would get you character 1 (who gets numbers 1-250). Then a new character is added so now each character then gets 200 numbers. If you then open a token you'll get character 2 (who has numbers 201-400) rather than character 1 which you would have gotten if you opened prior to the new character being added.It must work this way because players like me who hoard and then open tokens do immediately get new characters who have been added to the token list. If the character + color was predetermined then we'd have to flush out X number of pulls before we got a newly added character and that would cause a riot.So hoarding technically *changes* what you get when you pull due to dilution.KGB0 -
KGB said:beyonderbub said:Bowgentle said:
Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330.The pulls are not predetermined as in character and cover color. It's only the random number that's predetermined.By this I mean imagine that the random number for a pull is 1-1000 and currently there are 4 characters in a tier. Each one gets 250 numbers. So imagine your next pull number is 220 which would get you character 1 (who gets numbers 1-250). Then a new character is added so now each character then gets 200 numbers. If you then open a token you'll get character 2 (who has numbers 201-400) rather than character 1 which you would have gotten if you opened prior to the new character being added.It must work this way because players like me who hoard and then open tokens do immediately get new characters who have been added to the token list. If the character + color was predetermined then we'd have to flush out X number of pulls before we got a newly added character and that would cause a riot.So hoarding technically *changes* what you get when you pull due to dilution.KGB0 -
beyonderbub said:KGB said:beyonderbub said:Bowgentle said:
Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330.The pulls are not predetermined as in character and cover color. It's only the random number that's predetermined.By this I mean imagine that the random number for a pull is 1-1000 and currently there are 4 characters in a tier. Each one gets 250 numbers. So imagine your next pull number is 220 which would get you character 1 (who gets numbers 1-250). Then a new character is added so now each character then gets 200 numbers. If you then open a token you'll get character 2 (who has numbers 201-400) rather than character 1 which you would have gotten if you opened prior to the new character being added.It must work this way because players like me who hoard and then open tokens do immediately get new characters who have been added to the token list. If the character + color was predetermined then we'd have to flush out X number of pulls before we got a newly added character and that would cause a riot.So hoarding technically *changes* what you get when you pull due to dilution.KGB
Let's expand what he said.
Player A pulls every pull he can from latest when he get it.
Player B hoards for long periods of time.
Let's assume both players earn about 2 pulls per day. Over the 6 weeks between 5* characters change they would each get 84 pulls. Let's assume standard distribution, meaning each player get's exactly 12 5*s (4 for each).
Let's also assume the RNG for each is the same, so the random numbers used for characters pulls are identical for the entire period.
Player A gets:
4 LumberCap
4 Okoye
4 Wasp
Player B get's noting because he hoards. If he pops his hoard as soon as the new character comes he get's
0 LumberCap
4 Okoye
4 Wasp
4 Unannounced character.
Now let's expand that over the 3 6 week cycles so triple all pull numbers.
Player A now gets:
4 LumberCap
8 Okoye
12 Wasp
8 Unannounced character 1
4 Unannounced character 2
Player B (assume he opens the day Unannounced character 3 enters get):
0 Lumber
0 Okoye
0 Wasp
12 Unannounced character 1
12 Unannounced character 2
12 Unannounced character 3
Doesn't look the same to me....1 -
broll said:beyonderbub said:KGB said:beyonderbub said:Bowgentle said:
Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330.The pulls are not predetermined as in character and cover color. It's only the random number that's predetermined.By this I mean imagine that the random number for a pull is 1-1000 and currently there are 4 characters in a tier. Each one gets 250 numbers. So imagine your next pull number is 220 which would get you character 1 (who gets numbers 1-250). Then a new character is added so now each character then gets 200 numbers. If you then open a token you'll get character 2 (who has numbers 201-400) rather than character 1 which you would have gotten if you opened prior to the new character being added.It must work this way because players like me who hoard and then open tokens do immediately get new characters who have been added to the token list. If the character + color was predetermined then we'd have to flush out X number of pulls before we got a newly added character and that would cause a riot.So hoarding technically *changes* what you get when you pull due to dilution.KGB
Let's expand what he said.
Player A pulls every pull he can from latest when he get it.
Player B hoards for long periods of time.
Let's assume both players earn about 2 pulls per day. Over the 6 weeks between 5* characters change they would each get 84 pulls. Let's assume standard distribution, meaning each player get's exactly 12 5*s (4 for each).
Let's also assume the RNG for each is the same, so the random numbers used for characters pulls are identical for the entire period.
Player A gets:
4 LumberCap
4 Okoye
4 Wasp
Player B get's noting because he hoards. If he pops his hoard as soon as the new character comes he get's
0 LumberCap
4 Okoye
4 Wasp
4 Unannounced character.
Now let's expand that over the 3 6 week cycles so triple all pull numbers.
Player A now gets:
4 LumberCap
8 Okoye
12 Wasp
8 Unannounced character 1
4 Unannounced character 2
Player B (assume he opens the day Unannounced character 3 enters get):
0 Lumber
0 Okoye
0 Wasp
12 Unannounced character 1
12 Unannounced character 2
12 Unannounced character 3
Doesn't look the same to me....1 -
broll said:He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong.
You can hoard if you want and pull once a 6-week cycle or hold it for 18-weeks for the next 3 5*s, you WILL BE delaying your roster progress in doing so and in the player B examples you post above, you will be hurting your progress by forcing yourself by choice to chase "Lumber, Okoye and Wasp" in the even more diluted Classics pool.
I apologize for not expressly spelling out my intention with the initial statement: "All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress"1 -
beyonderbub said:broll said:He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong.
You can hoard if you want and pull once a 6-week cycle or hold it for 18-weeks for the next 3 5*s, you WILL BE delaying your roster progress in doing so and in the player B examples you post above, you will be hurting your progress by forcing yourself by choice to chase "Lumber, Okoye and Wasp" in the even more diluted Classics pool.
I apologize for not expressly spelling out my intention with the initial statement: "All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress"1 -
beyonderbub said:broll said:He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong.
You can hoard if you want and pull once a 6-week cycle or hold it for 18-weeks for the next 3 5*s, you WILL BE delaying your roster progress in doing so and in the player B examples you post above, you will be hurting your progress by forcing yourself by choice to chase "Lumber, Okoye and Wasp" in the even more diluted Classics pool.
I apologize for not expressly spelling out my intention with the initial statement: "All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress"0 -
Blindman13 said:broll said:beyonderbub said:KGB said:beyonderbub said:Bowgentle said:
Champ rewards for 4s ramp up enormously past 330.The pulls are not predetermined as in character and cover color. It's only the random number that's predetermined.By this I mean imagine that the random number for a pull is 1-1000 and currently there are 4 characters in a tier. Each one gets 250 numbers. So imagine your next pull number is 220 which would get you character 1 (who gets numbers 1-250). Then a new character is added so now each character then gets 200 numbers. If you then open a token you'll get character 2 (who has numbers 201-400) rather than character 1 which you would have gotten if you opened prior to the new character being added.It must work this way because players like me who hoard and then open tokens do immediately get new characters who have been added to the token list. If the character + color was predetermined then we'd have to flush out X number of pulls before we got a newly added character and that would cause a riot.So hoarding technically *changes* what you get when you pull due to dilution.KGB
Let's expand what he said.
Player A pulls every pull he can from latest when he get it.
Player B hoards for long periods of time.
Let's assume both players earn about 2 pulls per day. Over the 6 weeks between 5* characters change they would each get 84 pulls. Let's assume standard distribution, meaning each player get's exactly 12 5*s (4 for each).
Let's also assume the RNG for each is the same, so the random numbers used for characters pulls are identical for the entire period.
Player A gets:
4 LumberCap
4 Okoye
4 Wasp
Player B get's noting because he hoards. If he pops his hoard as soon as the new character comes he get's
0 LumberCap
4 Okoye
4 Wasp
4 Unannounced character.
Now let's expand that over the 3 6 week cycles so triple all pull numbers.
Player A now gets:
4 LumberCap
8 Okoye
12 Wasp
8 Unannounced character 1
4 Unannounced character 2
Player B (assume he opens the day Unannounced character 3 enters get):
0 Lumber
0 Okoye
0 Wasp
12 Unannounced character 1
12 Unannounced character 2
12 Unannounced character 3
Doesn't look the same to me....
I disagree that the only benifit is skipping 5*s. In my example the non hoarder never gets 13 covers. That’s certainly not optimal. Someone who got less pulls on average would be worse off. Hoarding also let’s you choose who to get lots of champ levels for (if they hoard long enough). The trade off might be skipping characters but that doesn’t mean that’s the only benifit (or that it’s even a benifit at all, if could be a negative side effect depending on your point of view and who you skipped).0 -
broll said:beyonderbub said:broll said:He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong.
You can hoard if you want and pull once a 6-week cycle or hold it for 18-weeks for the next 3 5*s, you WILL BE delaying your roster progress in doing so and in the player B examples you post above, you will be hurting your progress by forcing yourself by choice to chase "Lumber, Okoye and Wasp" in the even more diluted Classics pool.
I apologize for not expressly spelling out my intention with the initial statement: "All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress"
Hoarding denies you chances at champ rewards like more LTs or more CP to pull potential 5s or move champ 4s forward. That is the “delay” I’m talking about. Whether it’s for a month or 6 years, it stalls your chances at progressing your roster via champ rewards (tokens,cp, xp for iso to level your toons). It can be beneficial in short durations only if you have already gotten your current 5s stable where you want it to be (for me that’s champed and earning rewards) and saving up for next release.
The other issue with hoarding is that results are not guaranteed when you bust that hoard. The longer you wait and the worse RNG treats you ( for example, 5000-10000 cp blown to attempt champing 3 Latest and you get no 5s or get enough 5s to cover the weakest of the trio up to level 475 but only a few covers for the other 2), the more inclined you are to quit the game after others have preached to you that hoarding was the solution to getting champ 5s. Meanwhile the person pulling daily, even if they don’t pull any 5s, now has a ton of 4s in the 320+ range giving out high level rewards and enjoying that roster daily in pve/pvp. Which player is better off? That’s a matter of opinion. Not correct or incorrect.1 -
beyonderbub said:
I will hoard CP to unload on a store like the recent Loki one where I like the other 5s offered as well (win-win regardless of any 5 pulled) but I will pull Latest Legends tokens as I earn them.0 -
Dormammu said:nonnel said:spend money, get CP
People say they can't hoard, that they lack the willpower or it bores them. It doesn't take that long to build up a sizable nest egg of pulls with regular play. I still open all my tokens every day, with the exception of the LTs. I scratch the token itch.
I enjoy watching my hoard grow, every CP or LT added makes me smile, knowing that I will choose the opportune time to spend it - when I can maximize my pulls for the characters I want. It's smart to hoard around duds like Wasp and lie in the weeds, waiting for the right three to exist in latest legends. It's even smarter now that vaulting is no longer a thing, because you don't have to worry about maximizing the latest twelve 4-stars.
The top players on these forums have been telling us that hoarding is the best way to fully cover 5-stars. I finally started listening to them and it turns out they're right.
And yet, I’ve seen hoards from folks who spend that crush my hoard. So I’ll stick by my earlier comment. Spend money. Get CP
I’d name names. But it’s against the SSOLU code.2 -
beyonderbub said:broll said:beyonderbub said:broll said:He's not quibbling over semantics... He's explaining that what you said before and in the above is wrong.
You can hoard if you want and pull once a 6-week cycle or hold it for 18-weeks for the next 3 5*s, you WILL BE delaying your roster progress in doing so and in the player B examples you post above, you will be hurting your progress by forcing yourself by choice to chase "Lumber, Okoye and Wasp" in the even more diluted Classics pool.
I apologize for not expressly spelling out my intention with the initial statement: "All pulls are already predetermined so hoarding just delays inevitable roster progress"
Hoarding denies you chances at champ rewards like more LTs or more CP to pull potential 5s or move champ 4s forward. That is the “delay” I’m talking about. Whether it’s for a month or 6 years, it stalls your chances at progressing your roster via champ rewards (tokens,cp, xp for iso to level your toons). It can be beneficial in short durations only if you have already gotten your current 5s stable where you want it to be (for me that’s champed and earning rewards) and saving up for next release.
The other issue with hoarding is that results are not guaranteed when you bust that hoard. The longer you wait and the worse RNG treats you ( for example, 5000-10000 cp blown to attempt champing 3 Latest and you get no 5s or get enough 5s to cover the weakest of the trio up to level 475 but only a few covers for the other 2), the more inclined you are to quit the game after others have preached to you that hoarding was the solution to getting champ 5s. Meanwhile the person pulling daily, even if they don’t pull any 5s, now has a ton of 4s in the 320+ range giving out high level rewards and enjoying that roster daily in pve/pvp. Which player is better off? That’s a matter of opinion. Not correct or incorrect.
However, let's say I accepted your idea that roster level has a direct correlation to placement/being competitive, I don't but hypothetically. The only way I can see that making sense is based around either having the latest must have character or not. Hoarding allows you to get that must have character sooner and/or to a much higher level, which would be more beneficial then just barely champing them if that's what dictates placement.
I get what you're saying about delaying champ rewards and I understand your point, but still fundamentally disagree. Once you're at the point where you're treading water (meaning most/all 4* and below champed and enough 5* champed) you rarely need ISO, XP is just another way to gain ISO once you have access to SCL9 (which is super low), HP as long as your getting 1000 each 2 weeks is plenty other than buying stores/deals, the only thing you're really missing is CP & LTs. Going back to the above idea of hoarding to get certain must have characters as high as possible, getting those CP and LTs when you're opening the hoard is either an RNG boost to your number of pulls or setting up a high starting value for your next hoard.
Sure you're not guaranteed a character when you boost a hoard, but you're not any more guaranteed to cover the characters pulling as you go, RNG is RNG. You state that "The longer you wait and the worse RNG treats you" but I don't believe there is basis for that. RNG is streaky, but people who have posted their long term numbers usually show it being striking close to the advertised 15%. The more you pull in one go the statistically more likely you are to pull 15%. Smaller hoards can be all over the board from 0-30%, but the longer you pull it should level out to 15%. IMO this is the biggest reason to hoard. Back to my above example of someone who's standard distribution would be about 12 5* covers before that character leaves Latest. If you get bad RNG on a new, must have, character and only get 6 for that character, your roster is the worse for it. Hoarding gives you a statical advantage to overcoming poor RNG via pure brute force. It's a bad experience to do a big hoard hoping to get 18 covers for a character and only getting 13, but it's better than not getting 13 at all.
I don't think we're gonna agree on this so I'll bow out of this debate and agree to disagree.0
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