About newer character (Wishlist)

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  • JDFiendJDFiend Posts: 20 Just Dropped In
    But it's not they don't want to play him as he is too evil. They don't want to play him as he is a Nazi. 

    The point of my argument is that Magneto, like it or not, enshrines a lot of the Nazi ideology and methods (actually more so than Red Skull who more just plain racist) - and draws on the charismatic dictator. 

    If they have a problem Red Skull as he is Nazi, surely there'd be a moral problem with some that basis themselves off a similar platform? And enact similar deeds? 
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 3,141 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well I can't speak for anybody else but if there is a racial element to Magneto then I think it is again along the same lines as Malcolm X. He used racially charged speeches seeking to empower his fellow African Americans in an aggressive way because he does not believe being passive will get results. History sees him in both a negative and positive light.

    History doesn't have anything positive to say about the Nazi's and as such people may not have the same level of acceptance for a character who embodies the beliefs of that regime.

    Others may have their own view though.
  • pheregaspheregas Posts: 1,228 Chairperson of the Boards
    ZootSax said:
    Tensuun said:



    So... anyway.

    Never before have I seen an animated GIF so quickly get a thread back on topic :)

    As for the original question, I think Nebula is the character I most want to see added....which I wouldn’t have expected before I sat down and thought about it.  Not that there aren’t plenty of other good suggestions here...
    I have a feeling Nebula will be making the in-game rounds once the next Infinity War movie comes out...
  • JDFiendJDFiend Posts: 20 Just Dropped In
    Author's intent is important, but it has to be taken with a pinch of salt. The author's intent may have based off that but the text will contain changes for dramatic elements and sub-conscious ideas that act against their own intent and stuff. I think in a lot of ways Magneto extends beyond the Malcolm X model they wanted. 

    The supremacy rhetoric is present in all three ideologies - The 'Ayran' race is genetically superior to all others, Blacks are superior over whites,  Mutants are better than humans due to the x gene. All three the same rhetorical argument. Nothing evil or inherently wrong with that - even Gandhi used elements of Social Darwinism(although that is mostly cultural Ayran caste system stuff as Hitler kind of stole that from Indian.) I think Nazis takes it a little further than Malcolm X and the authors magnified this in Magneto to create some more villainous Someone that put mutant life above all else, no matter the cost. 

    All three have the notion of creating homogenous societies based on race - and this is where Magneto starts to depart from Malcolm X a little more clearly and more towards Nazism. X believed in separation - a mutual separation between equals as segregation inferred an inferior and a superior in the equation.  I am pretty sure in the Genosha arc Magneto chased human survivors down to a beach and slaughtered them - if I remember correctly? I tend to see him as more of a segregationist just due to his belief of how superior mutant kind is. He says again and again how mutants should rule over humanity. That's not really Malcolm X, that's more Hilter's ideal of Volksmienschaft - a racially pure nation with a racial hierarchy. So all three are eerily similar again - the difference comes down to the connotations held in a single synonym. A single shift in interpretation or context and it's an entirely different policy.

    A key component of Magento's and Hitler's manifesto is the idea of having a home nation or Lebensraum. The land where the mutant/German population can unite free of the racially inferior. So Mag's land of the 'Homo Superior' free of Homo Sapiens. I think NOI wanted a segment of America as their own? - not a hundred per cent sure on that. Not sure what Malcolm X kind of wanted, I think he was more complex than NOI ideals he started to evolve beyond.  

    They all created an 'other' to rally against, Nazis - almost everyone they could, Malcolm X - White Oppressors, and Magneto's was all humans. They all support violence - and militia tactics. 

    Then you have the whole megalomanic element of Magento and Hilter. That Nazism put that state above all else, Magneto puts the status of mutants above everything other than his himself, and again have no idea if Malcolm X held a similar argument to this. Not someone I really dealt with in British and European History. 

    So I think the problem with authorial intent in this instance is they are basing it on NOI ideology and black Fascism, a lot like white Fascism, and mutant Fascism is still Fascism. And the natural need to add drama has amplified it slightly. And I am not using Fascism as a term to say anything is bad or evil - it's just a statement of fact to what it is. 

    On a side note, sorry for derailing the thread. I'll shut up now and if anyone else wants to shout at me or anything just pm me or start a new more appropriate thread. Not going to respond in here as people want their thread back. 
  • Jarvis_JackrabbitJarvis_Jackrabbit Posts: 78 Match Maker
    edited July 2018
    JDFiend said:

    Emma Frost
    Shadowcat (Kitty Pryde)
    Black Cat
    Cable (Deadpool)

    These are always in my request suggestions.

    JDFiend said:
    Red Skull. 

    If you look around at lists of Marvel villains he consistently ranks in the top ten in most of them - Ign, Comic Vine, Another comic Vine, Newsarama. Most of the other consistent top ten have playable covers or boss events around them. 

    Red Skull needs some love. 




    I wouldn't mind a Red Skull boss, but I'd rather he not be a playable character. While he is a major Marvel villain, I don't think many people are excited about assuming the role of a top nazi.
    Never really get that argument with mpq. Do you really assume the role? It's not like P&P where you have to sink into their pysche of Jedi succumbing to the dark side due to a dice roll or anything. It's not even like running through pvp or pve will even draw on his background really. 

    Do you sink in to the mind of a symbiote enhanced psycho killer when you use Carnage, megalomaniac dictator when you use Doom or a man that wants to kill all humanity when you use Mags? Did you play through Thanos', PVP thinkon I will get those stones and kill half the universe! I never really assume the role. Was more worried about health packs and accidentally triggering half-health Thor. 

    I'd agree if the game had any real level of role play. If was anything else than downing fictional heroes I'd totally agree though. I most probably wouldn't play any of the above. 
    Great points. I think this is indicative of the flaws with self-identifying and viewing the world with one's politics as fundamental to one's morality rather than the converse. It is weird that Red Skull would be more generally offensive than the other characters you mentioned.

    On topic, characters I would like to see are Fantomex, West Coast Avengers Vision, Hela, Misty Knight, Coleen Wing, Davos, Odin, Kid Loki, and Old Man Hawkeye.

    Karnak could have some interesting play mechanics with his ability to find the flaw in anything.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 3,069 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'll say again that if you don't present Red Skull in nazi regalia, nobody will even care. If you dress him in a leather SS outfit and give his powers problematic names, he is immediately going to be a talking point. People who know his deal seem unlikely to be the ones offended by his context, and people who don't know his deal are unlikely to be aware of anything outside of what he looks like in the game. And at that point, if his bio just says Hydra and there is no iconography, what complaints are you going to hear, that he doesn't look problematic enough? a good problem to have I guess.


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