Across Ixalan vs. Trial of the Planes cost

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Wolfbane
Wolfbane Posts: 42 Just Dropped In
in MtGPQ General Discussion
Hi All,

I don't know if this has ever been brought up before but what's up with the entry fee for Across Ixalan and Trial of the Planes?

Due to the current lack of event's I'm considering for once buy into either the across Ixalan or Trial of the Planes event of the day.  One costs 20 crystals to enter, the other 60. 
Checking the rewards for both events I discoverd that both events have the exact same reward stack.

I find it a bit curious that 2 events with the same reward stack have suck different entry fee's.

@Brigby , Are the dev's aware of this? For faireness sake should not  either the entry fee or the reward stack for Trial of the Planes adjusted?

regards

«1

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  • Rhasget
    Rhasget Posts: 412 Mover and Shaker
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    span_argoman said:
    *snip*

    Over its various iterations, it finally settled on its current form of having 12 charges over 4 nodes, a 60 Crystal entry fee and 30 Crystal rebate in the final Progression tier.

    Just to clarify, the 30 crystal reward is for Platinum tier only. The rewards are different for every tier.
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
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    Rhasget said:
    span_argoman said:
    *snip*

    Over its various iterations, it finally settled on its current form of having 12 charges over 4 nodes, a 60 Crystal entry fee and 30 Crystal rebate in the final Progression tier.

    Just to clarify, the 30 crystal reward is for Platinum tier only. The rewards are different for every tier.
    I apologise for omitting that very important point! The 30 Crystal rebate applies only for Platinum. Which also means no one should play Trial of the Planes unless they are in Platinum.
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
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    Well, now we can get dupes from pinks, even platinum players might think twice before paying 60 crystals for it. At least until it gives a more recent booster.
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
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    Bil said:
    Well, now we can get dupes from pinks, even platinum players might think twice before paying 60 crystals for it. At least until it gives a more recent booster.
    Well actually if you look at @Larz70 's analysis of the Orbs which playing TotP yields, it gets you more Orbs on average than the alternative of spending the Crystals on a Premium Pack even when using the lowest valuation for Jewels. So dupe or no, TotP is still expected to yield positive gains on average for a Platinum player who can consistently get to the top Progression tier.

    Unless you're short on Crystals and want to save them up for something else, then well yeah you probably want to skip TotP.
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
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     Even if i agree with the theorycraft, I see a few things that aren't obviously pointed out in this analysis.

      This thread assumes that you only get orbs from your PP's and EP.  However, when you buy some brand new PP's and play it smart, you generally get new cards from it because you save the crystals until the new set comes out (if you already have most of the cards from the current set).
       How many orbs would it cost to craft all those new cards with orbs? Probably more than the 30% or 50% diference i guess ... But i might be wrong if you get unlucky.

       The second point is the fact that TOTP is filled with overpowered decks and you might be unable to get your 30 crystals back from time to time. That could flaw those statistics a bit too.
      Oh, and there's also the time invested and the boredom of an event in which 90% of the decks are similar.

        As far as I'm concerned, the frustration if i pull a dupe mythic after 20 days of totp is too high to risk it. (Not to mention the fact that a 1000-1500 orbs bonus is peanuts if we consider all the currencies and the dupe mythics from AWR and BOFT gathered by a player in the meantime).
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
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    @Bil
    I did qualify that it is worth it unless you are saving up your Crystals for something else. If people are planning to keep a buffer for the new set, that counts too. And the practical concern of saving Crystals more slowly is highlighted in the discussion in that topic.

    Also, if you're talking about the situation where a new set is released then you are similarly less likely to get a dupe from the new Elite Packs. In fact much less likely than the proportion of dupes you will get after opening a few Premium Packs in the new set. That also changes to make the additional Jewels gained from TotP much more valuable, making TotP worth double of its expected returns from the full EP dupe scenario.

    If you aren't confident of winning 8 matches out of 12 then yes that is a factor in whether to play TotP. I haven't had any problems to hit 8 wins but the experience may differ for each player, especially those with less developed Legacy collections.

    I agree on the time factor, if one is short on time, TotP would be the first event to cut cause its rewards ratio is lower than the other events. But I think the boredom factor is subjective. If you don't enjoy playing the game while fielding your most powerful decks possible, I think that's something no one can convince you on.

    I can't convince you on your fear of dupes either. That RNG is part of this game and has been ever since launch. If you prefer, you can wait in hopes of them changing the policy.

    And the point is that TotP does net more Orbs when you have the Crystals to spare. Though Crystals are more tight nowadays due to the rushed set releases, that doesn't change the fact that TotP does net more Orbs than buying Premium Packs when you reach that stage of mostly dupes in Premium Packs which I believe many Platinum players will experience.
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2018
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       I actually agree with all of it ...  I'm just a defender of the save for something else option.

      It's clearly up to anyone to choose if he wanna spend time on it. I was just explaining why it seems to me that totp is one of the less rewarding events in terms of rewards/time ratio. I never discussed the point about orbs though.

      Building a highly efficient legacy deck isn't the problem here ... It is facing endless loops on steroids and rains of creatures from huf deploy again and again.
      For fun and creativity I prefer TG environment as far as legacy is concerned.
       
       Overall it is just a personal feeling, I'm not trying to convince or be convinced. Is the event worth something in absolute ... Yes. Is the gain worth the time spent, not for me at least, until i can get a booster that makes sense again.

        I also guess that some of us being able to deal with the 8 games doesn't mean that a new plat player would be able to, depending on his collection. For that reason, i wouldn't recommend it to everyone. Frustration is something we all have to deal with and totp is clearly the event that is most likely to feel frustrating overall (personal point of view again though).
  • arNero
    arNero Posts: 358 Mover and Shaker
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    I personally consider TotP to be a stupidly risky endeavor not worth my time and resources.

    60 crystals is already quite a hefty entry fee since, without events, even Platinum players can only expect to get 25 crystals per day. But that's not the worst of it: Unless they have changed it, the last time I played TotP, the nodes NEVER recharge, unlike Across Ixalan, and to get the maximum reward, you MUST win ALL matches without fail, when the RNG and the deadly decks (deadly legacy decks, especially) can completely screw you over in a single cascade. Which means, there is no guarantee that you can recoup the 30 crystals out of the 60 you spend to try TotP, you may not even be able to gain maximum jewels either if a Starfield Lock or Olivia + Decimator decide to say hi.

    So it's very-high-risk, too-low-reward, thus it's the one daily event I have never touched in, I dunno, a year? Across Ixalan is far more lenient (it's still possible to lose out on maximum reward if you're ridiculously unlucky and constantly lose on the first node, but still), and thus I'm okay with it.

    (In fact, during the first few months Across Ixalan was introduced, because I was lazy to read the forums and such, I assumed it would be as risky as TotP and I also decided to skip them for months. Serious)
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @arNero it was changed. You have to win 8/12
    matches (as mentioned above)
    There is no doubt that AcrIx is the event with better rewards and lower risk. But the nice part is, it is not an either /or choice.. AcrIx is should been done every day you find the time, totp is something you can do on top of you have additional time and resources (and can reliably win) I mostly play it when I'm at 1xx runes to open the next pack unless they change the reward booster.. HOU doesn't trigger me any more. But totp as such does, it's the only event we have with some risk to actually lose!

  • Rhasget
    Rhasget Posts: 412 Mover and Shaker
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    Xenagos said:
    The sad thing is that its not actually that hard for people who own all the best cards in the game, and theyre raking in extra jewels every day, getting more of the better cards, und so weiter. At least it requires a heavy time investment to get that return.
    This is something that comes up from time to time, that you automatically win because of your collection.
    The better players can reach progression with pauper decks in ToTP.

    It's been a year or so since some players posted their result in a week of ToTP with only pauper or max rare decks but the legacy meta is pretty much the same.

    I'm not a top player (usually between 50-100 in PvP) and have managed it in most colors. It takes a bit more time and concentration though but if you want the jewels to get more chances on Elitepacks it's very doable consistently without the broken legacy cards.
  • Wolfbane
    Wolfbane Posts: 42 Just Dropped In
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    @span_argoman Thanks for the explanation. 
    Since I haven't played trial of the planes since I got mass wiped my first time around I wasn't ware of of the difference in gameplay.

    Looks like across Ixalan is the better event to spend my crystals on.

  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
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    I've updated my "Is Trial of the Planes for You?" guide to reflect the changes from 2.7.1. Hope it gives people better insight into whether the new TotP is worth playing.
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
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    it makes more sense for across ixln to give dom packs and totps to give ixln packs
  • Mark_Tedin
    Mark_Tedin Posts: 167 Tile Toppler
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    The ToTP fee increase was very abusive (30 to 60). If a platinum player wins all the daily events he has a -5 crystal loss (TG 15 + AI 10 - ToTP 30). From Monday to Friday the player loses -25 crystals to play daily. it makes no sense. ToTP fee should cost a maximum of 50. I think 40 crystal would be more acceptable.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Mark_Tedin said:

    The ToTP fee increase was very abusive (30 to 60). If a platinum player wins all the daily events he has a -5 crystal loss (TG 15 + AI 10 - ToTP 30). From Monday to Friday the player loses -25 crystals to play daily. it makes no sense. ToTP fee should cost a maximum of 50. I think 40 crystal would be more acceptable.
    What fee increase?  ToTP was always 60.  It being 30 was a special deal.

    Also *sigh* to reiterate something that has been said a lot in the past (mostly by me)

    YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE A CRYSTAL PROFIT PLAYING ToTP

    The event was designed as a way for top-end players to convert Crystals to Jewels (convert yellows to purples)
    Don't think of it as losing 5 crystals a day to play an event, think of it as spending 5 crystals a day to get 2 packs and a ton of jewels (I can never remember the exact number, but its pretty significant).  If you want crystals for packs and planeswalkers, then DONT PLAY ToTP.
  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
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    I think its 20?
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
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    Brakkis said:
    I think its 20?
    I think Mburn7 is including TG into the calculations which is why it's -5 Crystals per day. Personally though I think the events should be evaluated individually since you can play any combination of the three repeating events at your own preference.
  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
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    Ah, ya I was just trying to recall how many jewels you get from ToTP. It's 20 right? I generally don't do it purely because I'm saving for PW's.

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