Ok, since the whole "Latest/Vintage" 4*s seems to be dead, at least for now, I figured I'd show you guys what affect it had on the game. I'll preface this with stating that I am most definitely a 5* player and I average about 3 LT pulls a day - possibly a bit higher. I track a lot of data, since early 2016 I have a log of every LT pull, some of this information is based on that data, others based on my MPQ Compendium roster.
Ok, the Limited Draw system was implemented at the same time as BH on 3/1/17. At that time, you could not draw a "Vintage" 4* from anything other than a Vault. This continued to 7/27/17, where they went with the 50/50 system - you have a 50% of drawing from the large pool of "Vintage" 4*s, and a 50% of drawing one of the 12 "Latest."
I'll pull three example characters who were outside of Latest when it was implemented - the data is when they were introduced, how long it took for me to cover them, and what level I have them at now. I went late to maximize the effect of dilution. I didn't BH any of these:
Quake (Daisy Johnson) - Introduced 3/10/16 - covered 9/6/16 - currently 308
Kate Bishop (Hawkeye) - Introduced 6/5/16 - covered 3/7/17- currently 298
Moon Knight (Marc Spector) - Introduced 6/20/16 - covered 12/5/16- Currently 308
So you can see Kate was really hard to cover - over nine months. Quake and Moon Knight took around six. Ok, three who were assisted by full vaulting:
Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew) - Introduced 8/29/16 - covered 2/13/17 - Currently 320
Venom (Agent Venom) - Introduced 11/21/16 - covered 4/6/17 - Currently 327
Iron Fist (Danny Rand) - Introduced 3/27/17 - covered 5/8/17 - Currently 329
Spider-Woman was fully covered prior to vaulting (a bit over six months to cover,) but you can see she got much higher than any of the "pre-vaulting" characters. AV and Danny were covered much more rapidly because of it - 4.5 and less than two months respectively. Danny is particularly significant as he benefited the most from Vaulting - he was introduced after it started, and was out of "Latest" prior to the shift to 50/50.
Three who were in the full "half vaulted" era, introduced after the 50/50 shift and out before it ended:
Vulture (Adrian Toomes) - Introduced 7/31/17 - covered 9/20/17 - Currently 309
Mockingbird (Bobbi Morse) - Introduced 8/7/17- covered 10/16/17- Currently 308
Yondu (AM v2) - Introduced 8/14/17- covered 9/20/17 - Currently 315
I went sequential with these since Lockjaw was still in Latest as of yesterday. As you can see, we're still covering the characters pretty fast - around two months. However, we're getting substantially lower before they're out of Latest - averaging closer to 310 than over 320.
So... yeah. Take the data as you will, but I feel that the time to complete a character will be six months or more, and we'll be seeing a more gradual leveling of the Rosters rather than getting characters to a certain point before having them slow down. Speaking for myself, I don't like it - it will probably increase my overall rewards from Champ levels (these rewards improve substantially the higher the character gets,) but at the cost of newer 4*s being pretty much irrelevant for... well kind of indefinitely, actually - unless they're a support character they're never going to contribute anything as they'll be so far behind the rest of my roster.
Colognoisseur said: Seeing it laid out this way I would really be interested in the reasoning behind the decisions for each era. As in what was the intended effect on the game.
HoundofShadow said: It depends because there are more than 1 way to get 4* covers:1) PvP progression2) PvP Placement3) PvE Progression4) PvE Placement5) 120CP/cover (activated)6) Heroes for Hire Store7) 3* feeders (certain characters)8) Story Event vaults9) Taco Vaults
Dormammu said:The reason they're going back to the (horrible) dilution model is very simple - over the last year they've watched purchases in their event vaults dwindle. No one is spending in those to try and get 4-stars when they're easy enough to cover out of the latest 12 through normal game play income. At least, that's my best guess/assumption. No one has officially stated any reasons behind it—probably because it's hard to spin 'we want to make more money.'
I deliberately chose characters that I didn't set as Bonus Heroes to give that picture. In general, I'm fairly deliberate about setting my BH - usually it's a character I want to get very high level. I got Carol up to 360 and stopped her, I switched it to Peggy as I kind of want to complete the older 5* Cap, and Peggy is good on her own. Yesterday I decided I want LTs, so I set it to a bunch of characters who will get an LT with one BH - I really want to cover JJ before she's out.
I looked it up after posting, and noticed I did draw one BH Vulture, but that's the only one out of those characters.
As far as what I earn from PVP and PVE - I pretty much always get the PVP 4* from progression, almost never from placement (I think I got that maybe 4 or 5 times total? I just don't overshoot 1200 enough unless I find a really forgiving bracket.) For PVE I play SCL 9 and almost always get one 4* cover from placement (once or twice I earned enough for two, but that's really rare,) and always get the progression. So yeah, there's some there, but there could absolutely be more.
I'd also like to know their reasoning. It seems likely that they are going to implement a system to reduce cover waste, but that really won't address the issue of covering a new character, which is going to take the Vets at least six months and newer players... I dunno, a very, very long time. Possibly never.
Dormammu said: Colognoisseur said: Seeing it laid out this way I would really be interested in the reasoning behind the decisions for each era. As in what was the intended effect on the game. The reason they're going back to the (horrible) dilution model is very simple - over the last year they've watched purchases in their event vaults dwindle. No one is spending in those to try and get 4-stars when they're easy enough to cover out of the latest 12 through normal game play income. At least, that's my best guess/assumption. No one has officially stated any reasons behind it - probably because it's hard to spin 'we want to make more money'.
PenniesForEveryone said: Dormammu said: Colognoisseur said: Seeing it laid out this way I would really be interested in the reasoning behind the decisions for each era. As in what was the intended effect on the game. The reason they're going back to the (horrible) dilution model is very simple - over the last year they've watched purchases in their event vaults dwindle. No one is spending in those to try and get 4-stars when they're easy enough to cover out of the latest 12 through normal game play income. At least, that's my best guess/assumption. No one has officially stated any reasons behind it - probably because it's hard to spin 'we want to make more money'. Specifically and more recently the advent of the "... and Friends" vaults are just plain garbage. If a new 4* looked decent I would often by a 40-pack during their release event and try to get them covered and sometimes champed during the event. It just made the event more fun - especially during the Panthos meta where a level 147 featured character was a huge liability. But with these new "... and Friends" vaults it's just a complete waste of HP and my money seems to be migrating over to other less stingy mobile games.
Dormammu said: Of course, the veterans felt completely cut-off from classic 4-stars and whined and cried for a couple-three months until the developers put in the 50/50 model around this time last year. This seemed to please everyone, or at least served as an acceptable compromise, and we all went on to complain about something else.
ZeroKarma said: Dormammu said: Of course, the veterans felt completely cut-off from classic 4-stars and whined and cried for a couple-three months until the developers put in the 50/50 model around this time last year. This seemed to please everyone, or at least served as an acceptable compromise, and we all went on to complain about something else. From my perspective, veterans absolutely loved vaulting. Assuming that you mean hardcore veterans that have entered the 5* tier and earn lots of tokens and rewards, vaulting allowed for the speedier acquisition of a specific group of 4*. This is a fantastic thing for an established 5* player, because it allowed you to get 4* up to a more useable range for PvP AND you get all of the sweet high-end champ rewards. a. 4* characters that are in-boosted are, for the most part, useless in high-end PvP. You can play around with them, but you will become a target very quickly due to their low health pool. b. Moving up to a 4* that is boosted to 410-420 and you now have something that's kinda viable, has high power damage abilities, and won't be as easy a mark. Comparable to an un-champed 5*.c. Max champed 4* are AWESOME! They provide better bang for the buck than most 5* do, even when champed. Many of them are viable in PvP including such all-stars as Mordo and Agent Venom. I have 21 maxed 4*, with 14 of them a direct result of vaulting. These characters can be actually useful in game, whereas ones at 280-290 won't do anything at all for me except when they're essential. The removal of vaulting for me and other veterans means that we will likely not get the chance to really use these characters for a very long time, if ever.
Colognoisseur said: @Spudgutter has it correct every long term vet I spoke with felt vaulting was good for us while making the game more approachable for a new player to be competitive. That it was killed after less than six months has always felt like it was premature. I have to assume Demiurge saw something n their metrics which made them make the decision.i worry this return to full dilution means they are more concerned with retention over recruitment.
Straycat said: To the OP, Kate Bishop and Moonknight were in the first season of vaulting. They were part of the first 12, but were only in tokens for a couple weeks. It definitely helped me get covers for them, but I didn't finish and champ them until after the 3X odds change. Personally, my highest 4*s are 308, thanks to vaulting. My bonus heroes are all over the place, usually on any that give a LT or is a 5* feeder.I liked vaulting, it was a crazy time of constant champing. Now that I have almost all 4*s champed, this change doesn't really mean anything to me.
Oh, hey, that's a good point. I had my Kate so low I had thought she was out of vaulting entirely, but looking at my log I see I pulled a few of her in that period. Let's do the two prior, by way of a good example:
War Machine (James Rhodes) - Introduced 5/19/16 - Completed 11/27/17 - Level 299
Winter Soldier (Bucky Barnes) - Introduced 4/28/16 - Completed 9/6/17 - Level 304
So yeah, Kate suffered a lot because of the RNG, clearly, and was only minimally helped by vaulting.