Anyone bothered about game balance any more?

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  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,936 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
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    No! I love slinging powerful things around the field, and I love winning all the time!
    If the game is going to be imbalanced, then I'd rather it be imbalanced in my favor. 
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Yes! I wish the game was more balanced!
    I jumped into Hour Of Whateveritwas at the last minute last night to see if I could get into a new bracket and ninja some prizes.

    Here are the 5 games I played with my lvl 19 Nissa 3.

    http://imgur.com/a/QaBJ4


    (Apologies to Brigby if I should have started a new thread)
  • naphomci
    naphomci Posts: 127 Tile Toppler
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    I didn't vote because none of the options really fit.

    The issue is the AI is just plain bad (as it is in virtually every game). You can balance the cards more, but that won't change how bad the AI is. All balancing the cards would do is make games take longer, and probably not for the better (obviously some games would be more fun, but there would be a lot more of waiting for your creatures to finish off the opponent). So I would have voted for an option along the lines of "More balanced only if the AI showed any competence."
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
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    Yes! I wish the game was more balanced!
    I think this set was a step in the right direction.  Cycling is still broken of course, but commons are more playable.  Hey and green got some removal!
  • majincob
    majincob Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
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    I choose "All of the above."
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
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    Neutral! I don't care one way or the other! Balanced, unbalanced, it's all the same to me! Jeez, do I have to have an opinion about EVERYTHING? Can't I just play? It's just a game for lawdy's sakes!!! Honestly, you need to get out more. There's more to life than mobile games, you know. Go for a walk, maybe stop to smell a flower. Talk to some people! Get yourself a girlfriend, neckbeard!
    I have no idea what you're on about @shteev 
    https://youtu.be/rzWUmtD6lt8
    //Removed Video Preview Due To Profanity In Title -Brigby
  • ipapotihus
    ipapotihus Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    edited August 2017
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    bken1234 said:
    I have no idea what you're on about @shteev 
    https://youtu.be/rzWUmtD6lt8
    //Removed Video Preview Due To Profanity In Title -Brigby
    OMG... Happy that I never battle against your deck.
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
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    Yes! I wish the game was more balanced!
    I think I lost to that deck yesterday 
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Neutral! I don't care one way or the other! Balanced, unbalanced, it's all the same to me! Jeez, do I have to have an opinion about EVERYTHING? Can't I just play? It's just a game for lawdy's sakes!!! Honestly, you need to get out more. There's more to life than mobile games, you know. Go for a walk, maybe stop to smell a flower. Talk to some people! Get yourself a girlfriend, neckbeard!
    Gilesclone said:
    I think I lost to that deck yesterday 
    I would love to see what AI does with it. I have a much more terrifying Dovin with Omni in the weekend event. Send me a PM in Discord and I'll show it to you. 
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Yes! I wish the game was more balanced!
    naphomci said:
    I didn't vote because none of the options really fit.

    The issue is the AI is just plain bad (as it is in virtually every game). You can balance the cards more, but that won't change how bad the AI is. All balancing the cards would do is make games take longer, and probably not for the better (obviously some games would be more fun, but there would be a lot more of waiting for your creatures to finish off the opponent). So I would have voted for an option along the lines of "More balanced only if the AI showed any competence."
    I kinda want my games to last longer, yknow? I'm not sure the AI made *any* relevant plays in those 5 games, and I'm not really here to play Candy Crush Saga.

    I'll grant you, some improvement in the AI may well have made some of those games I played tougher... as you can see, in 2/5 games, the AI cast a Shefet Monitor rather than cycling it. But the blistering speed at which I'm dropping multiple GRs on the table doesn't give the AI much wiggle room for good play.
  • Tilwin90
    Tilwin90 Posts: 662 Critical Contributor
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    Neutral! Frankly I didn't like that other neutral option, it make me sound like a bit of a jerk, so I'd like to vote for this one instead, please.
    I already complained everywhere else about how overpowered Omniscience is... and Bianca, that wasn't even your deck I faced in the Hour of Devastation event.
    But honestly... it makes anything that's remotely broken even MORE broken. Supercharging everything is just stupidly good.
    Let's see how it is different from paper magic Omniscience, just to get an idea:

    - Paper magic converted mana cost and MTGPQ mana cost are two very different balance points. In paper magic, if you make an enchantment cost 7UUU (so 10) you either cheat it into play or you're going to be in for a very long game which can be a dangerous business (or ramp into it, sure...). In Puzzle Quest? Right... how about Pull from Tomorrow into Rishksex into Omniscience turn one?
    - - Sure, you can cheat it into play with Whir of Invention, though it's getting a bit more combo-ish and gimmicky and complicates the combo a bit more. But sure, it's still a viable approach to abuse it above what I would expect power-level wise.
    - In paper magic you get to respond to Omniscience both being cast and entering the board. You play blue? Tons of counterspells. You play green or white? Plenty of instants to destroy it as it enters the board (sure, it will give ONE trigger but only ONE). Black and red of course are vulnerable to enchantments... In MTGPQ, save for Pact of Negation (which let's face it, is a shameless answer because not everyone has it) and Insidious Will (which assumes you play blue in the first place - I'm curious post-rotation if any new toys show up) you are tinnykittied. Oh, and let's not forget that IW can save you for the first card, since you can't "pick what you counter".
    - So it's on the board... then the chaining begins. First it's stupidly good with all the "draw X cards" spells such as Pull and Revelation. Next it casts for free Gaea Revenges, Samuts and other powerful creatures (which admittedly you could still pull of in the past with Deploy... yet somehow the white made it less abusable in a non-Kiora deck).  Sure, this is something you can kind of achieve in paper magic too, but there the variance is much greater (especially since it includes lands). So it's more difficult to have consistent god draws.

    I know some people suggested it not to reduce the cost of other Omnisciences to 0. Sure... Mana ramp will take care of powering those up, no worries on that. My issue was not the Omniscience-power up others, because Rishksex and soon Hour of Promise will turn this into a monster.

    What were you guys thinking about including this together, nonetheless, with Swarm Intelligence; another "interesting" card that's already seeing abuse everywhere. I myself included it in a LEGACY Kiora deck for the Emrakul event and it is like a mini Omniscience in an 8 spells deck. But then again, had I had Omniscience, I would just dump it as the only support and play Whir all the time for double chance to drop it and produce infinite chains.

    Finally... "Looking forward" to it being included in a shameless Nyx deck. I was about to complain about the cost of Pull from Tomorrow anyway but with this, doesn't even matter....

    Again, what's with all the "free cast stuff" effects everywhere in HOU?! It's like the theme of the set or something...Believe, Hazoret's Undying Fury, Wildfire Eternal, Swarm Intelligence, Omniscience... I guess either we went a bit on the edge because of the whole Bolas theme, or nobody had the chance to play with Dark Ritual and Loyal Retainers...
  • naphomci
    naphomci Posts: 127 Tile Toppler
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    shteev said:
    naphomci said:
    I didn't vote because none of the options really fit.

    The issue is the AI is just plain bad (as it is in virtually every game). You can balance the cards more, but that won't change how bad the AI is. All balancing the cards would do is make games take longer, and probably not for the better (obviously some games would be more fun, but there would be a lot more of waiting for your creatures to finish off the opponent). So I would have voted for an option along the lines of "More balanced only if the AI showed any competence."
    I kinda want my games to last longer, yknow? I'm not sure the AI made *any* relevant plays in those 5 games, and I'm not really here to play Candy Crush Saga.

    I'll grant you, some improvement in the AI may well have made some of those games I played tougher... as you can see, in 2/5 games, the AI cast a Shefet Monitor rather than cycling it. But the blistering speed at which I'm dropping multiple GRs on the table doesn't give the AI much wiggle room for good play.
    I wouldn't mind the games lasting longer, if the games got better. For instance, the weekend PvE node 3 battles--they last long, but are boring and not challenging. If balancing the cards turned all games into that--the AI just playing a now 2/1 Shefet Monitor, while you play 3 now 2/2 Boomships--it won't be fun, it'll be tedious.

    Until the AI is competent it will be easy to take advantage of the imbalances, or it will become a boring slog.
  • Furordraco
    Furordraco Posts: 142 Tile Toppler
    edited August 2017
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    No! I *wish* I had the trouble you have winning everything, shteev! Playing at the level I'm at is great fun, and frankly, anyone who gets to the endgame can go fish!
    it seems like the balance is needed only when all the players will have your power level Shteev :wink:
  • Sirchombli
    Sirchombli Posts: 322 Mover and Shaker
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    Neutral! I don't care one way or the other! Balanced, unbalanced, it's all the same to me! Jeez, do I have to have an opinion about EVERYTHING? Can't I just play? It's just a game for lawdy's sakes!!! Honestly, you need to get out more. There's more to life than mobile games, you know. Go for a walk, maybe stop to smell a flower. Talk to some people! Get yourself a girlfriend, neckbeard!
    This game has some balance issues. Really a lot. They bothered me at lower tiers. Then I accepted 2 things.

    1: I'm gonna lose from time to time. Random number generator is random. Just yesterday I was playing a match against koth. I had him dead next turn. God cascade happens. Lightning runner, samut, triple UD and an extra swap, pops second ability. I took 70 damage that turn. I've done similar things myself. Just happens sometimes. 

    2: cycling is a reality. I mostly hate the mechanic. Pushing a cycling deck feels like a pre nerf baral deck with a manual transmission. Playing a 4 turn game that lasts 25 minutes really isn't my bag. The decks are miserable to play against, too. Every turn you either get flood waters or censor. 

    We can't go crying every time we lose to a bomb card. Especially when it's something like omniscience, and we're playing in plat. There are like 50 floating around. The masterpieces could definitely use to be balanced with each other. Everybody is all "woo! Lookit my no mercy" while I'm over here like "shatter storm? Really bruv?" 

    I don't think that the game is out of balance to a level that prevents me from being competitive. It should also be noted that my hou pulls have been hot garbage. I feel that the game could use an update to the algorithms, however. The rng makes my decks feel like they were shuffled by a newb that just started playing commander. It's really disheartening when you draw, in succession, 4 copies of the only 28 mana card in your deck. Meanwhile, the ai just dropped 3 lightning runners, 2 solemn recruits and a dynavolt tower. The game has numerous flaws, but somebody told me something 8 or 9 months ago that gave me some perspective. You gotta embrace the suck. It absolutely isn't going away. Play the game you have in front of you rather than pine over what it isn't. The game became a lot more fun when I stopped picking it apart. 
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,936 Chairperson of the Boards
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    No! I love slinging powerful things around the field, and I love winning all the time!
    "The game became a lot more fun when I stopped picking it apart." 

    Oh man, so true. I came to this conclusion after almost quitting in frustration. Now I play semi-competitively, and with much less stress. 
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Yes! I wish the game was more balanced!
    Mainloop25 said:
    "The game became a lot more fun when I stopped picking it apart." 

    Oh man, so true. I came to this conclusion after almost quitting in frustration. Now I play semi-competitively, and with much less stress. 
    Me, I spend more time playing games which can withstand the harsh light of criticism. Despite what some forum users would have you think, it's perfectly possible to achieve, and a lot of games manage it far, far better than this one.
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,936 Chairperson of the Boards
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    No! I love slinging powerful things around the field, and I love winning all the time!
    That's fine, this is the only game I play, and hopefully ever will feel compelled to play. I don't really have a problem with you having more fun criticizing it than playing it. Your online persona makes it feel like that's how it's always been for you. 

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