Sometimes the AI impresses me

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  • Ap00calypse
    Ap00calypse Posts: 42
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    Another cool story - Koth loses to Jace. Why ? Because, for 5 turns, nothing but blue, white and black on the board. Neither with nuking nor with gem generation. I think I'll just stop playing til this **** is fixed (if ever).
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
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    Ohboy wrote:
    wink wrote:
    Ohboy wrote:
    octal9 wrote:
    I understand the frustration, I truly do - my only losses ever come against unreal cascades.

    But I have to ask - how did AI play four creatures on its first move?

    There's always card draw shenanigans possible.

    But since this has literally never happened to me before, I think he might be referring to turn 3 or 4 and utilizing exaggeration to make his point.
    This is what I don't like about the new speeded-up animation. There will be turns where the AI starts off with 2 cards, then there is a flurry of cascades and cards flashing by too fast to follow, and then the are 2 new creatures on the board, and the AI now has 4 cards! Where did those cards and creatures come from?? I have no idea, because the animation is too fast to follow, and I can't tell if there is draw shenanigans happening or if there was some cool combo that I should be stealing.


    When I said draw shenanigans, I really meant cards that let you draw cards, not some weird bug.
    Mono-Red has no card that gives it 1 more card on the first turn. Koth has no draw ability either.
  • Nitymp
    Nitymp Posts: 320 Mover and Shaker
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    Magmatic insight or tormenting voice could have
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
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    Nitymp wrote:
    Magmatic insight or tormenting voice could have
    These two cards use a card and discard a card so it's more cycling two for two than drawing an extra card. Plus I doubt anyone uses either of those cards if they already have cards like Desolation Twin and Geier Reach Bandit.
  • Ap00calypse
    Ap00calypse Posts: 42
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    Here we go again. Could someone, please, explain to me how the AI spell-targets a hexproof card ? Or spell-kills a creature with Prevent Damage ? I just had Odric clutch-currented and enshrouded-mist Sigarda, scouted from existence.

    And before someone starts overanalyzing it, the cards were cast in the following sequence: Sigarda, Odric (gets hexproof), Enshrouding Mist (on Sigarda).

    160645.jpg

    enshrouding_mist_sm.jpg
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ap00calypse wrote:
    Here we go again. Could someone, please, explain to me how the AI spell-targets a hexproof card ? Or spell-kills a creature with Prevent Damage ? I just had Odric clutch-currented and enshrouded-mist Sigarda, scouted from existence.

    And before someone starts overanalyzing it, the cards were cast in the following sequence: Sigarda, Odric (gets hexproof), Enshrouding Mist (on Sigarda).

    160645.jpg

    enshrouding_mist_sm.jpg

    Destroy spells being blocked by prevent damage was a bug fixed quite a few versions ago, so an into the slaughter killing sigarda is pretty legit.

    Not sure about odric. Maybe he got disabled?
  • Ap00calypse
    Ap00calypse Posts: 42
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    Nope, the hexproof icon was there from the moment he landed. Next turn AI removed him. The entire strategy was casting them at the same time, sacrifice Sigarda to get Odric hexproofed so he can massacre the AI's creatures. The AI had 5 filled spell cards in hand + 3 creatures on board.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ap00calypse wrote:
    Nope, the hexproof icon was there from the moment he landed. Next turn AI removed him. The entire strategy was casting them at the same time, sacrifice Sigarda to get Odric hexproofed so he can massacre the AI's creatures. The AI had 5 filled spell cards in hand + 3 creatures on board.



    It's possible to have a non targeting disable spell + standard target removal kill a hexproof creature.

    This was a popular move during Runaway carriage wars.
  • Ap00calypse
    Ap00calypse Posts: 42
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    Ohboy wrote:
    Ap00calypse wrote:
    Nope, the hexproof icon was there from the moment he landed. Next turn AI removed him. The entire strategy was casting them at the same time, sacrifice Sigarda to get Odric hexproofed so he can massacre the AI's creatures. The AI had 5 filled spell cards in hand + 3 creatures on board.



    It's possible to have a non targeting disable spell + standard target removal kill a hexproof creature.

    This was a popular move during Runaway carriage wars.


    Ondric wasn't disabled, the only disabling spell the AI had was Claustrophobia which wasn't cast. Besides, he was in a 2nd slot, and the Scour that killed Sigarda was cast after he was removed. This is precisely why I posted the card image - it says, specifically, that a 'target creature' is being removed. So, either I lack basic reading comprehension or it's yet another annoying 'feature' (i.e. bug).
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ap00calypse wrote:
    Ohboy wrote:
    Ap00calypse wrote:
    Nope, the hexproof icon was there from the moment he landed. Next turn AI removed him. The entire strategy was casting them at the same time, sacrifice Sigarda to get Odric hexproofed so he can massacre the AI's creatures. The AI had 5 filled spell cards in hand + 3 creatures on board.



    It's possible to have a non targeting disable spell + standard target removal kill a hexproof creature.

    This was a popular move during Runaway carriage wars.


    Ondric wasn't disabled, the only disabling spell the AI had was Claustrophobia which wasn't cast. Besides, he was in a 2nd slot, and the Scour that killed Sigarda was cast after he was removed. This is precisely why I posted the card image - it says, specifically, that a 'target creature' is being removed. So, either I lack basic reading comprehension or it's yet another annoying 'feature' (i.e. bug).

    Well if you're sure there's no stuff like Hedron network or encircling fissures played against you, then I guess you have a case.
  • Ap00calypse
    Ap00calypse Posts: 42
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    Alright. After playing approximately 50-60 matches and making observations, I think I figured out the secret behind this nonsense.

    It all starts at increments of ~10 matches. The AI doesn't start 'playing' better, it simply pits a player against progressively poor gem matches and ridiculously bad draws. Prior to 10-15 matches, it's a cakewalk - good choice of gems and good variety of drawn cards. At a 10-15 mark, it starts getting progressively more frustrating, since you're forced to make off-colour matches and the result will almost always going to be a good match for the AI. Incidentally, the AI draws the perfect counter for whatever you manage to put on the board. Example: somehow, against all ods, the AI is at very low HP whilst you are full. The AI managed to cast some debuffing supports, but so far it looks favourable. Then it lands a devastating combo, filling a handful of kill or removal spells, and the momentum is lost.

    After that, anything you manage to put on the board is insta-removed, the AI keeps raking in mana like there's no tomorrow, and doesn't let go. Ultimately, you lose.

    Again, this is based on a rather meticulous observation of a few dozen matches, and the pattern keeps repeating itself. Now I'm 100% certain that it's not just the AI script but also gem generation and deck drawing code.
  • Ap00calypse
    Ap00calypse Posts: 42
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    Yep, once again. Exactly at the 30th match.
  • Volrak
    Volrak Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
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    It's very easy to see patterns in noise, if you're convinced they're there.

    As for progressively poor gem matches in a game, that's unsurprising if you're not using gem colour change supports, and there's not much gem destruction going on. You may also be able to improve your gem matching results by basic strategies such as setting up "forced" moves for the AI which favour the board for you next turn, choosing the matches most likely to result in cascade for you, tactically favouring 3-match over 4-match according to the situation, etc.
  • Ap00calypse
    Ap00calypse Posts: 42
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    Volrak wrote:
    It's very easy to see patterns in noise, if you're convinced they're there.

    As for progressively poor gem matches in a game, that's unsurprising if you're not using gem colour change supports, and there's not much gem destruction going on. You may also be able to improve your gem matching results by basic strategies such as setting up "forced" moves for the AI which favour the board for you next turn, choosing the matches most likely to result in cascade for you, tactically favouring 3-match over 4-match according to the situation, etc.


    For this specifically, I was running Koth, with a 5/5/0 deck. There's absolutely no use for colour-changing supports with his 1st, when he gets to redesign the board for merely 6 mana. The reason behind using a single PW is to have a more or less controlled environment. But, it's exactly the same with using any other PW - about every 10th round or so, it becomes extremely lopsided. If you'd like to call it a conspiracy theory, that's your prerogative.

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