How much is a 16/16 with reach and trample worth?

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shteev
shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
edited June 2016 in MtGPQ General Discussion
I've been looking at Crush of Tentacles, which seems like a really good card!

I thought I'd ask the community how much mana a 16/16 with reach and trample is worth. Obviously, it's got to be a lot less that 21 mana, because that's the cost of Crush of Tentacles. In fact, the other effect of Crush of Tentacles is basically Displacement Wave, which costs 14 mana.

Is 7 mana a fair price to pay for a 16/16 with reach and trample? Or would you have it cost more? 10 mana maybe? 12?

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  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Oh, please bear in mind that we're talking about a *blue* creature with reach and trample, and reach and trample are both green abilities. Obviously a green creature with these abilities will cost less than a blue one.
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
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    Basically you are asking if the card is too good...
    To me it is but is somehow balanced by the situational nature of it.

    You do not want always to bounce all creatures to just get the 16/16 out.

    Anyways in my opinion a single token would have been more balanced.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Morphis wrote:
    Basically you are asking if the card is too good...
    To me it is but is somehow balanced by the situational nature of it.

    You do not want always to bounce all creatures to just get the 16/16 out.

    Anyways in my opinion a single token would have been more balanced.


    Let me be clear, I'm not asking whether Crush of Tentacles is balanced, I am very specifically asking how much a blue 16/16 creature with reach and trample should cost.

    However, your point about Crush of Tentacles is an interesting side question! You're right about it being situational, if the combined power and toughness of all your creatures on the battlefield is 16 points greater than the combined power and toughness of all your opponent's creatures, you probably wouldn't cast this spell. Say, for example, you have 3 Skysnare Spiders in play, and your opponent had no creatures, you probably wouldn't cast Crush of Tentacles. Is this a situation you often find yourself in while playing the game? What card would you rather have in your deck to ensure that you win that match in which you are already way ahead of your opponent?
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
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    I dont know why you would honestly ask if a 16/16 trample + reach creature for 7 is balanced in itself(I.e if the card did only that for 7 mana).

    Guess I will play along: a 16/16 trample reach creature for 7 mana is OP

    For me such a card would still be too good(not op)even if the creature had the drawback: "at the beginning of your next turn destroy this creature".
    Just to give an idea of how much such a thing would be OP.

    What would
    Be a fair price for it?
    Based on recent patch notes at least 16 mana(at least the same than skysnare spider.
    Compare to skysnare it would have:
    - better stats
    - added benefit of of trample
    - added benefit(marginal) of being stackable with kiora 3rd skill
    - less value being a token(1); some effect are for non-token only
    - less value being a token(2); bounce kills it instead of returning to hand
    - less value being a token(3); cannot be resurrected
    - less value being a token(4); if reinforced through effect(non by castings another copy directly) gets only 8/8 stats.


    That should be all.
    The disadvantages have rare/marginal impact.
    To me at 16 would be good(skysnare is not but that is another topic).

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