Buying a dual-colour PW with mana crystals - cost vs power?

Melevorn
Melevorn Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
edited July 2016 in MtGPQ Tips & Guides
Now that the Vault has two dual-colour PWs, I'm tempted to spend my carefully-accumulated manacrystal.png hoard. I have 719 saved up (as a free2play, very casual player).

Kiora (blue-green) costs 950 manacrystal.png , so that's another month and a bit of saving.
Ajani (red-white) costs 550 manacrystal.png , so I could get him immediately.

Ajani is 58% of the cost of Kiora, so unless she's got something really, really special to offer I'd be very tempted to try out Ajani.

Are their powers, or the strength of their potential combos, so different as to justify the cost difference?

P.S. If I get Ajani, then by the end of the month I could also get a 250 manacrystal.png PW, like Garruk. Who is the best of the 250-cost PWs?

Comments

  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    Melevorn wrote:
    Now that the Vault has two dual-colour PWs, I'm tempted to spend my carefully-accumulated manacrystal.png hoard. I have 719 saved up (as a free2play, very casual player).

    Kiora (blue-green) costs 950 manacrystal.png , so that's another month and a bit of saving.
    Ajani (red-white) costs 550 manacrystal.png , so I could get him immediately.

    Ajani is 58% of the cost of Kiora, so unless she's got something really, really special to offer I'd be very tempted to try out Ajani.

    Are their powers, or the strength of their potential combos, so different as to justify the cost difference?

    P.S. If I get Ajani, then by the end of the month I could also get a 250 manacrystal.png PW, like Garruk. Who is the best of the 250-cost PWs?
    Short answer: Yes.

    Long answer: If you have the best cards of the respective colours Kiora will perform better because Green has the best ramp cards while Blue has the best draw cards. With the fantastical creatures that Green has, this can lead to a massive board build-up pretty quickly which will allow you to build that board advantage to win you the game, and quickly too. Just look at the Kiora topic for ideas.

    Kiora's first ability is mana gain with an added tempo swing by draining your opponent's mana also. The second combines the draw and mana gain specialty of Blue and Green. The third ability is to lay the smackdown when you're tired of fooling around with your opponent.

    Ajani builds from Red and White. There aren't any particularly strong synergies between Red and White cards. So his strength isn't particularly amplified by the colour combination.

    Red's strength is direct damage and generally creatures which hit hard while not being as tough as Green creatures. With the advent of more mana-efficient creatures (Serene Steward, Hagra Sharpshooter, Coralhelm Guide, etc.) and Undergrowth Champion though, the direct damage spells are less powerful and Red berserkers die for less impact. So imo in the current meta Red's influence is diminished though still formidable.

    White has always had good creatures and now has a few additional good spells (Ondu Rising, Encircling Fissure, Smite the Monstrous) and creatures (Serene Steward, Lantern Scout, Veteran Warleader) to boost its power. Swift Reckoning works very nicely with Ajani's first ability. Second ability synergises with Serene Steward while complementing Red's direct damage. The third ability is nice for a mana gain boost and to hopefully destroy some opposing supports. But there just aren't that many Red+White card combinations (at the moment) which have particularly strong synergies.

    So I'd say both are strong but you can optimise Kiora to hit a higher peak than Ajani. Ajani however will be easier to make a good deck with right off the bat. Kiora at suboptimal levels can feel like an overpriced Nissa.

    PS. BFZ Gideon is the strongest of the lot.
  • Melevorn
    Melevorn Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    Thanks very much for that detailed analysis and explanation! Exactly what I was looking for! icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Melevorn
    Melevorn Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    Thanks again for your previous response.

    Given that Sarkhan is now available for manacrystal.png , and the numerous changes to cards in v1.5 of the game, would anyone please be able to update the previous analysis to consider him and the other changes, please?
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
    Before purchasing any new Planeswalker, I think it's important to remember that it will cost approximately 80,000 runes to fully level a mono-colored walker, and approximately 160,000 runes to fully level a two-color walker.

    I was going to get Sarkhan just to get him, but I don't have anywhere near 160,000 runes, so I'm staying put for now.

    In the meantime, it looks like they're going to buff the heck out of Koth (12 mana on a match-3 red, plus making it easier to create red matches), so I might consider getting him first.

    Sarkhan's abilities seem kind of meh at first glance, but the ability to combine black and red into a single deck seems mighty tasty. There are a couple of cheap "gain control of target creature until end of turn" effects in red and some cheap "destroy a creature you control and do something" effects in black.

    Plus, with any two color combo you'll get to combine the most efficient cards in both colors. Even without cute combos, Sarkhan will have access to really good removal spells and really good creatures.

    Personally, I have Ajani and Kiora and I actually much prefer Ajani. He's my favorite planeswalker at present. If you don't have him, I'd probably consider getting him before getting Sarkhan.
  • Melevorn
    Melevorn Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    EDHdad wrote:
    Personally, I have Ajani and Kiora and I actually much prefer Ajani. He's my favorite planeswalker at present. If you don't have him, I'd probably consider getting him before getting Sarkhan.
    Thanks very much! I have saved up 799 manacrystal.png so am wondering whether to get Ajani/Sarkhan (perhaps plus Koth) or to keep saving for Kiora. Tough call.

    What do you think of the changes to Ajani in the next patch?
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    Melevorn wrote:
    Thanks again for your previous response.

    Given that Sarkhan is now available for manacrystal.png , and the numerous changes to cards in v1.5 of the game, would anyone please be able to update the previous analysis to consider him and the other changes, please?
    To get the best out of Sarkhan, you need Dragons. The third ability is 18 loyalty which is very cheap when you consider that at level 60, just one 6/6 from your second ability will give you 24 bonus damage directly to the opponent planeswalker. When you have more Dragons, that effect is amplified. So you're not maximising Sarkhan's potential if you don't have at least one of the following: Dragonmaster Outcast, Akoum Hellkite or Avaricious Dragon. Ie. He won't feel that strong until you have your own dragons. But he is when you do.

    On the other hand Ajani has been nerfed into the ground. The cost increase for the first ability was to be expected; at three loyalty you could just about spam it every turn if needed. Six is understandable. The second ability being increased to twelve loyalty in addition makes Ajani not really worth the crystals. Let's compare with the second abilities of a few other commonly used planeswalkers:

    Ajani: 12 cost. Deal 6 damage to target creature and gain 6 life.
    Kiora: 12 cost, fetch the next creature from your library + card gains 16 mana.
    BFZ Gideon: 9 cost, summon 4 2/2 White Knight Ally tokens.
    Chandra: 9 cost, deal 4 damage to all your opponent's creatures.
    Nissa: 15 cost, +7/+7 to all your creatures until the start of your next turn.

    I think the abilities speak for themselves. Ajani's second ability is now overcosted. And the third ability has dubious effectiveness at best. Which means this 550 crystal planeswalker has ~1.5 effective abilities. That's disappointing to say the least.

    What Ajani does still have is certain synergies discovered in the forums such as Noyan Dar + Zada + spell spamming. Or a Red+White Ally deck. Disable + Swift Reckoning is still strong. Potentially there could be new combos with the new card set. So at least Ajani is benefiting more from being able to use both White and Red cards as more synergies are discovered.

    Kiora has not been affected directly. But some of her power cards have been nerfed. Undergrowth Champion's cost increase doesn't change much cause you can still summon it out for free using your second ability. Noyan Dar will cost 2 mana after the second ability and will slow a bit but still be powerful. Day's Undoing is more expensive which limits your ability to chain it but still good for cycling spells for boosting Noyan Dar.

    Animist's Awakening has been hit hard though. While it seems like the reduction has been proportional, 10 to 5, the power is much reduced. The board has 49 gems (7x7), usually players trigger it only when the secondary condition is fulfilled which is that there are at least 8 gems on the board. Even at the bare minimum this goes to 18 gems which is 36.7% of the board. When one third of the board is the same colour, chances are you will trigger quite a few matches, not to mention possible cascades following those matches. A side effect of the many matches is that you also gain a lot of loyalty in one turn.

    After the nerf this goes down to 13 gems which is 26.5% of the board, leaving a much higher possibility that instead of getting many matches you merely leave a very favourable board for your opponent. That has always been the risk of using Animist's Awakening. Additionally the activated gem used to be triggered relatively reliably by a second Animist's Awakening after the first. No longer the case after the nerf, and even if triggered the impact will be less than before. Which honestly brings the card to a much more appropriate power level for its rarity and cost. But it will pull down the power level of all Green decks including Kiora.

    I still expect Kiora to have the strongest decks around even if these may be less strong than before. But based on the current balance changes, Sarkhan looks to be stronger than Ajani as long as you have dragons. Or another way of putting it is that whichever planeswalker you have better cards for will be the stronger one, but at the end of the road Sarkhan should pip Ajani.

    Regarding the new cards it's still too early to tell their impact. Only notable ones are that Goblin Dark-Dwellers will help the Noyan Dar + Zada combo and the cards that make BFZ Gideon stronger. Captain's Claw together with Oath of Gideon mean Veteran Warleader is a ridiculously powerful card. Coupled with the second ability of BFZ Gideon, you're going to have a super-powered Veteran Warleader very quickly with these cards and other Kor Ally summoning cards. So maybe the 250 crystal planeswalker will turn out to be better than any other.
  • Melevorn
    Melevorn Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    span_argoman, I really appreciate your detailed analysis! icon_e_biggrin.gif

    For me, this discussion seems to boil down to my lack of key cards. I have no dragons (unsurprising, being two Mythics and a Rare) so Sarkhan is out.

    I don't have Noyan Dar or Zada, or many Red/White Allies like Vet Warleader, so not sure about Ajani or BFZ Gideon.

    I'm lucky enough to have an Undergrowth Champion, but no Animist's Awakening or Noyan (again) or Day's Undoing, so I don't have important cards for a good Kiora deck (I have enough rares to make a reasonable one, maybe).

    I've printed out your analysis for future reference, as I slowly get free boosters and try to amass a broader collection.

    Meanwhile, I think I have some reasonable cards for a Koth deck (Molten Vortex, Crumble to Dust, other uncommon/common board shake/Landfall cards) so might spend my manacrystal.png on the new, improved Koth and then save up for Kiora while hoping to get more powerful Blue/Green cards.

    I also note that the face of the game (on Android, at least), is now Kiora so I dare say that she's supposed to be, and will continue to be, the best Planeswalker.

    Thanks again!
  • nexus13
    nexus13 Posts: 191 Tile Toppler
    OGW has a mythic dragon so that potentially helps Sarkhan.
  • ROYGBV00
    ROYGBV00 Posts: 37 Just Dropped In
    Best:
    Kiora (almost any combo is viable = flexibility and creativity!)

    Z-Gideon (Veteran Warleader + Lantern Scout + buffs from Recruit ability = OMG)

    Ob (lockdown with kill spells + mana support cards)

    Great:
    Garruk (basically a green version of Z-Gideon, except his token don't trigger Veteran Warleader...so sad! Block with Undergrowth Champion + Helm of the Gods + Mantle of Webs = YEAH!)

    Good:
    Koth (now buffed, although if the board is dry of red spheres...slow death)

    OK:
    Tezzeret (still has flaws)

    ****:
    Sarkhan (can't make this guy work LOL)

    Admittedly, I don't have the right cards to run a dragon deck LOL.
  • PapiLouis4
    PapiLouis4 Posts: 113
    ROYGBV00 wrote:
    Best:
    Kiora (almost any combo is viable = flexibility and creativity!)

    Z-Gideon (Veteran Warleader + Lantern Scout + buffs from Recruit ability = OMG)

    Ob (lockdown with kill spells + mana support cards)

    Great:
    Garruk (basically a green version of Z-Gideon, except his token don't trigger Veteran Warleader...so sad! Block with Undergrowth Champion + Helm of the Gods + Mantle of Webs = YEAH!)

    Good:
    Koth (now buffed, although if the board is dry of red spheres...slow death)

    OK:
    Tezzeret (still has flaws)

    ****:
    Sarkhan (can't make this guy work LOL)

    Admittedly, I don't have the right cards to run a dragon deck LOL.

    koth should be under best imo. his first skill will destroy 12 non red gems, so ridiculously good
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975
    Agree with above, Koth to best.

    With Koth you just have to change a little priorities.

    For me it goes like this:
    - match reds. Of course but more important than others.
    4 other color matches? No thanks.
    2 matches of 3 colors non red? No thanks.
    - cpu will not match your gems when can match his gem most of the time.
    So if you can choose between a bad match that will setup a red match for next turn and denying opponent color, choose the setup.
    Opponent will then match his color and you yours.

    - if none is good choose to match planeswalker symbol

    - use the first skill only if needed and if there is a decent chance(couple red near but not matchable, lots of red around) to setup a red match or get a cascade with red match.
    If you have a red match already usually it is a bad move to use first skill. It could screw the red match or not help anyways.
    Random cascades unless lead to red auto-matching, are pointless.


    Also IMO ob is surely not on top. I would place him at good level.
  • Melevorn
    Melevorn Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    Thanks for all of your advice!

    I ended up spending 1200 manacrystal.png on two BFZ Big Boxes - huge mistake! Not a single Rare or Mythic (except for the guaranteed Rare from the bonus OTG pack - one of which was a duplicate). As a F2P, that's a huge waste of manacrystal.png .

    Now I'm saving for Kiora. My Koth is now almost at 60, I have a standard Gideon at 60, so I guess that after Kiora I'll get an Ob and call if a complete set of colours.

    Cheers.
  • Wildcatbarry
    Wildcatbarry Posts: 8 Just Dropped In
    How many mana crystal needed to purchase Tezzeret the Schemer?
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    How many mana crystal needed to purchase Tezzeret the Schemer?
    They have standardised planeswalker Crystal costs to be 650 for dual-colour planeswalkers (like Tezzeret the Schemer) and 295 for mono-colour planeswalkers.