Full hand ruining some skill/effects

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Morphis
Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
edited January 2016 in MtGPQ Suggestions & Feedback
Right now the limitation in hand size ruins most effects like Google artifact, jace's second skill, nissa's first skill(partially) to name a few.
The problem is big cause it is hard, on average, to be able to cast more than one card each turn to get an empty slot once you get your Hand full.
My suggestion to "fix" it is that everytime you get a bonus card drawn or added in other ways(so not affecting the regular draw each turn) you can choose to discard your last card in hand(not showing what you arr going to draw).
This way those effects will always give the designed benefit.
Right now jace second skill while being in paper really good(like others planesealkers') is almost useless.

Comments

  • Unknown
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    Right now it is a conscious decision and is an important gameplay mechanic.

    It -does- severely diminish the value of card draw, but I think its designed around that.

    If they do change it, it will severely swing the balance of the game.

    For example, it is vitally important to Jace's bounce to be able to destroy creatures when opponent has a full hand.

    It also nerfs a few very good things like Jace's secondary (becoming situational instead of amazing all the time), and things like pyromancer's glasses, preventing them from being too powerful.
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
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    In my opinion card draw in this game has some value in the first few rounds than becomes almost titally pointless.
    The problem i see is that you have to wait TWO turns to just have a chance in finding a card you need to try and counter your opponent last move.
    Also a skill should be situational based in current board state, not based in your hand size. especially when you see you hand being full as a bad thing i think is a sign of something being really bad in the game design.
    I still think a redesign for that is needed to give players more choices even if that would lead to the "nerf" of some skills or cards.
    I would take a nerfed skill that i can ALWAYS get out if the situation calla for it over an overpowered one that i have almost no control about being able to use.
  • Unknown
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    You do have control over it however.

    If you want to make card draw more central to your deck, put more low mana cost abilities in your deck.

    If you're looking for a way to dump a 19 mana spell or creature all the time, that isn't going to happen.

    I am not opposed to allowing a discard at the beginning of your turn, so that you don't get stuck with a dead hand, and you can make use of your own abilities, but being able to force card draw to not happen is a big deal and needs to be in place for your opponent to exploit.
  • Unknown
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    I agree with pandabear, one needs to stop using auto fill for their decks slotting in all the rarest most expensive cards they have and instead build a deck with budget yet highly effiecent cards that ideally bring in utility and can always be beneficial to play if they need to start clearing room in thier hand.

    All decks will vary in their construction method based on what one is trying to accomplish and build around. But all of my decks are built with half of their cards costing 6-7 mana or less maybe up to 8 mana if it's a really good card versus cost. And I don't just mean throwing in cards like caustic caterpillar to get there.

    But back on topic the hand limit is there I believe in part so that one cannot just accumulate their entire deck or eventually have multiple copies of it sitting in their hand, in effect rendering them able to respond to any situation at ones leisure. If that were possible then card draw would be the most broken mechanic in the game.
  • Unknown
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    Hand limit is definitely important but I do agree with the OP that there should be a method to allow you to get new cards if you already have 6. Personally, I think you should always be allowed to draw as many cards as you can and then it should be configured that, at the end of your turn, you have to discard down to six. Card advantage is such an important part of the card game and it's largely irrelevant in this game.

    I also completely disagree with the premise that Jace's bounce effects killing creatures is vitally important. Jace's bounce effects are just that, BOUNCE effects, not Destroy effects. I think its a serious flaw in the game that bouncing creatures winds up killing them when the opponent has a full hand (except when they are token creatures). Voidmage should be a solid card but because of the above, he is borderline OP as a common as its pretty easy to negate his drawback.
  • Unknown
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    I agree that bounce shouldn't kill, if anything it should give you the option to pick a card to discard from your hand instead. Or at worst automatically discard the last card in your hand, I don't know how other people organize their hands but the card(s) at the bottom have the least priority to me and if a card was on the field I already wanted it played.
  • Unknown
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    I don't meant to dispute whether or not it is OP, but simply that it currently is a large part of the game.

    Changing it would require reworking many mechanics of card draw and discard and bounce for balance.
  • pressatobegin
    pressatobegin Posts: 20
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    I disagree that it's a large part of the game. The number of times I've encountered my opponent bouncing to kill something when I have a full hand pales in comparison to the number of times I've had a frustratingly full hand of unplayable cards, rendering my entire hand AND PW ability (and sometimes even the cards in hand themselves) literally useless.

    Will it require balance to fix? Sure. Will it require a major rework of the game's design? It shouldn't. If the game was designed to stop players from playing so that an opponent can occasionally exploit that fact, well, how is that good game design in either respect?

    Being unable to change my hand when it's full of bad cards is one of the more frustrating aspects of the game in my opinion.
  • Unknown
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    I use bounce kills constantly as Jace.

    I undervalue many cards specifically because they are card draw cards that are disabled by having a full hand.

    Needing to clear hands makes me actually put in cards that are low cost to be able to switch my hand around. Similarly, it adds value to cards that allow you to discard a card to draw another.

    So I would say yes, it is a big part of the game, and a powerful tool if you pay attention and exploit it.

    If you end up having a dead hand often take a look at your deck and see if there is anything to tweak.

    Even in magic when decks are designed to mitigate as much bad luck as possible it is possible to get dead hands. But most decks put in many many ways to avoid that scenario.
  • pressatobegin
    pressatobegin Posts: 20
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    Jace's bounce ability is his 3rd ability, right? What level does he have to be to unlock that? What about for matchups that don't contain blue decks?

    As far as modifying your deck goes, well you can't modify your deck until you get some cards. The starter decks all contain cards that in many situations are dead cards, and getting multiple copies of those with no way to dump them, muting other effects in the process, PREVENTS players from playing the game. The single fact that you are using the word exploit tells me that it's a bad experience for anyone who isn't a veteran of the game (or using a blue deck).

    For any players still developing their planeswalkers and their collections, and for all new players, the hand limit too often leads to a bad experience, and suggestions along the lines of 'tweak your deck' are not going to help those players. These are core mechanics we're talking about, things that enable -or disable- playing the game. Not some clever optional strategy.
  • Unknown
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    I agree with at least allowing a draw + discard at start of turn and I don't think it would be too powerful if every draw above six triggered a draw + discard. Playing through as Jace, I've often found myself stuck with a hand full of removal but unable to draw because the opponent has no creatures.

    Just now, I was stuck playing against Embermaw Hellion, with a hand full of bounce and removal. The Hellion must have a hand full of removal, because it refuses to play any creatures. If I didn't have a Sphinx's Tutelage to filter cards, I would need to concede or the game would go on endlessly. It's just bizarre that that could happen, but it did.
  • Unknown
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    No, I mean get some cards that are low cost (which are mostly common/uncommon...) so you can cycle through your deck at faster than 1 card a round.

    Or get some discards which are common/uncommon as well.

    It is a important part of the game that you can't just discard at will.

    I am open to the idea of being able to discard on your first draw of a turn - that way you at least have some way of moving through your deck. But on an opponents turn, you should not be able to discard to mitigate some mechanics. I think this is a good compromise.

    You are reading too much into the word "exploit". The whole point of the game is to leverage your cards strengths and exploit their usefulness to create combos or effects that are not readily apparent.

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