Theorycraft - Max damage within 3 turns

Unknown · January 2014

I was working through damage theory, and wanted to see if anybody wanted to contribute as to what character combos could maximize the damage you could achieve by the end of 3 turns? If the game does turn to slower battles, then the best combos can still allow you to rotate through fights quicker, allowing you to increase your points quicker.

I chose a three turn limit for damage, since by turn 3, the AI generally won't have matched enough to trigger any skills. Also after turn 3, there's too much variation to account for, but up to turn 3, its easier to identify the optimal choice of actions that a player should take to maximize their activities.

I've been working through minimization of damage too, or how quickly you can trigger each character's skills, but that'll be a different topic

Assumptions
- Can include any boosts you like
- Assume that each turn you can match 3 any colour, but that no cascades occur or match 4 or match 5 are available.
- Characters are max level or any skill configuration you like
- Assume each colour match does a consistent 100 damage (for comparison's sake)
- Assume that any random tile generation doesn't create cascades
- Assume that any targetted tile generation can create criticals
- Assume that by default, an average 9 tiles of each colour are available. (for strike tiles/attack tiles purposes)
Generally assume worst case scenario, to identify a realistic situation. Worst case, if a colour match is not available on a turn, your damage approach would pause until you can result matching the colours.

Wolvvie/Thor/IM40 combo
So for instance, looking at a Wolvie/Thor/IM40 combo, you could
Pre-Game
- All Colour AP Boost
- Red/Yellow AP Boost
- Green/Black AP Boost

Turn 1
- Feral Claws
278 damage
- Feral Claws
278 damage + 178 (2 Strike Tiles active)
- Level 1 Recharge
- Match Green
100 + 356 (4 Strike Tiles active)

Turn 2
- Feral Claws
278 + 356 (4 Strike Tiles active)
- Match Green
100 + 534 (6 Strike Tiles active)

Turn 3
- Feral Claws
278 + 534 (6 Strike Tiles active)
- Mjolnir's Might
1113 + 712 (8 Strike Tiles active)
- Mjolnir's Might
1113 + 712 (8 Strike Tiles active)
- Match Green
100 + 712 (8 Strike Tiles active)

Total?
7732
Plus high potential for cascases of the 2 Mjolnir's Mights, but can't assume that.

Or if you are still aiming for a wind storm
Magneto (Marvel Now)/Storm (Classic)/Wolvie
Pre-Game
- All Colour AP Boost
- Green/Black AP Boost
- Purple/Blue AP Boost

Turn 1
- Feral Claws
278 damage
- Feral Claws
278 damage + 178 (2 Strike Tiles active)
- Match Green
100 + 356 (4 Strike Tiles active)

Turn 2
- Feral Claws
278 + 356 (4 Strike Tiles active)
- Match Purple (9AP)
100 + 534 (6 Strike Tiles active)

Turn 3
- Polarity Shift (6 Strike Tiles active)
100 + 356 (5AP + 6AP from boosts. Critical)
- Wind Storm (6 Strike Tiles active)
3x1670 Damage
- Match green (6 Strike Tiles active)
100 + 534

Total damage?
8558
It would actually be 5218, 1670, 1670 across the three chars.
Probably more actually, does Wind Storm benefit from strike tiles? In which case its another 3*534 damage =1602, taking you to 10,160. Plus that last match, if you do it on the critical created in turn 3, your damage is probably another 100 or 2 more? Don't actually know how crits calculate.

Most of my playstyle does revolve around Wolvie's strike tiles though. Would be curious what the numbers come up to on Magneto and Punisher

mischiefmaker · January 2014

Ooh, theorycrafting! I'll play:

Wolvie/Magneto/IM40

Boost: all, r/y, b/p
Turn 1: Claws/L1 recharge/Magnetic Field/match purple: 278 + 100 + 178 + 100 + 178
Turn 2: Match purple: 100 + 178
Turn 3: Magnetic Translocation, assuming 9 blue tiles on board / Adamantium Slash / Magnetized Projectile / Match whatever = 636 * 9 + 178 + 2225 + 178 + 133 + 178 + 100 + 178

Total: 10006, although with 13 blue tiles on board this goes up another 2544 to 12550. This is assuming no critical tile from the turn 1 Magnetic Field and no cascade from the turn 3 Magnetized Projectile.

Wolvie/Ares/IM40

Boost: all, r/y, g/blk
Turn 1: Claws/Claws/L1 recharge/Match green: 278 + 278 + 178 + 100 + 178
Turn 2: Claws/ Match green: 278 + 356 + 100 + 356
Turn 3: Claws / Rampage / Match whatever: 278 + 534 + 100 + 712 + (~1200 + 712) * 3

Total: around 9640, assuming you entered the match with Ares under his double damage threshold (we don't have actual stats for his red yet but I ballparked it based on what we know about his base stats and the L125 ones in the Hunt event), otherwise around 7840.

Unknown · January 2014

To op, There is a issue on your calcs. The fourth feral claw would generate 4 attacks tiles since u got 15(6 boosr+9 recharge) red.

Unknown · January 2014

For Thor/Wolvie/IM40
There is a second approach. On second turn match a red and save feral claw for third turn. On third turn u can feral claw creating 4 attack tiles and 3 mjolnirs might. Its less dmg (around 650) but huge potential for at least 2 yellow matches or with a little bit of luck a cascade.

Unknown · January 2014

For any character with boosted environmental damage (probably only in LR now if Hulk tournament is any indication), boosted character/Hawkeye (classic)/whoever can easily beat these numbers by going into a near infinite loop with Take Aim -> Thorned Rose combo. I have had 30 AP of every color but purple by turn 3 starting with no boosts before on a lucky board, and it'd be way easier if you started with 6 purple.

Unknown · January 2014

Nice pickup LouisGustaf! If anything then, the Wolvie/IM40/Thor combo produces even more damage. The other approach (which goes against the assumptions) is if you get a match 4 red first turn. That takes you up to 10, and so you produce 3 strike tiles each time you feral claw

I wanted to Theorycraft the old Ragnarok, but with the assumption that each skill doesn't cascade, its a bit hard, since that's what people rely on.

However
Rag(old)/Wolvie/IM30

Boost : all, r/y, g/bl

Turn 1 - Recharge Level 1. Match Red - 100 damage
Turn 2 - Match Red - 100 damage
Turn 3 - Feral Claw, Feral Claw, Thunderclap, Thunderclap, Thunderclap, Thunderclap, Thunderclap, Thunderclap, Thunderclap, Thunderclap, Thunderclap, - 278 +278 + 178 + 633 + 356 + 633 + 356 + 633 + 356 + 633 + 356 + 633 + 356 + 633 + 356 + 633 + 356 + 633 + 356 + 633 + 356.

Yup, that would be 9 Thunderclaps off in one turn.
Total?
9835. But that would have generated 45 Green tiles, in a board which only contains 64 tiles, and based on the assumption the board would already have 9 tiles. so you'd have around 54 green tiles. If you assume that every thunderclap places green where a match won't occur, working through the maths in the last thunderclap, I don't think you can position 10 tiles in the board that would prevent those 54 tiles from matching. Ballparking it, you'd probably get about 25 green from that, which would be another 6 Feral claws, and even assuming there's no further red for strike tiles, that's another 2736 points of damage.

I think the damage is actually alright, but the AP generation of Thunderclap was just ridiculous!

Unknown · January 2014

Dont forget that ThunderClap dont change special tiles... it spares the reds with strike on it... and if more red falls down and you Feral claw again u are going to keep filling the board with red tiles... in some point they are going to match or be taken as colateral in a 4 green match.... allowing u to keep thunderclaping

Unknown · January 2014

Old Rags wasn't OP at all, nope.

Surprised not many using Mags.

Wolvie/obw/c.Mags

6 red
3 green
6 purple

Turn 1:
1. Feral Claws (278)
2. Match green + strike × 2 (150 + 178)
= 606

Turn 2:
1. Feral Claws + strike × 2 (278 + 178)
2. Match purple + strike × 4 (150 + 356)
3. Espionage + strike × 4 (112 + 356)
= 1430

Turn 3:
1. Magnetic Translocation + strike × 4 (8268 + 356)
2. Magnetized Projectile × 3 + strike × 12 (0 to 1005 + 399 + 1068)
3. Match purple + strike × 4 (150 + 356)
4. Espionage + strike × 4 (112 + 356)
= 11,065 to 12,070

Total: 13,101 to 14,106 + potential cascades.

Did this very roughly so feel free to correct my math.

Edit: didn't notice the 9 tile cap restriction, in which case take off 2.5k from the damage. Prolly explains why no one wants to use Mags.

Unknown · January 2014

You know what i think the thread highlights? That Wolverine is very critical to maximizing damage output.

I'll do a punisher and a daken comparision, and maybe a doom comparison as well (although he has attack tiles), but I can kinda see why 2 star wolvie is up on the rebalancing list for the devs.

Unknown · January 2014

I had a lvl 80 Hulk boosted 200% during the Smash hit tourney, and Feral Claws was still better dps.

Unknown · January 2014

Lets do a Wolvie/Doctor Doom/Magneto combo

Boosts - All, g/b, r/y

Turn 1: Claws/Claws/Match black 278 + 278 + 178 + 100 + 356 = 1190
Turn 2: Match black : 100 + 356 = 456
Turn 3: Magnetized Projectile × 3, Summon Demons, Match anything : (133 + 356) * 3 + (185 + 356) 6 = 4713

Total
6359, but potentially 3254 each turn from Summon Demons.

Spoit · January 2014

ihearthawthats wrote:

Edit: didn't notice the 9 tile cap restriction, in which case take off 2.5k from the damage. Prolly explains why no one wants to use Mags.

Well that, and his blue is a workhorse if there are enough blue tiles around

mischiefmaker · January 2014

ihearthawthats wrote:

Surprised not many using Mags.

Did this very roughly so feel free to correct my math.

You're casting Translocation on turn 3, which assumes the AI got purple on turn 1 (otherwise your espionage on turn 2 doesn't steal purple, and you're at 9). Also you're assuming 150/match-3, which is probably more accurate, but OP specifies 100/match-3.

That makes your total 9156:
Turn 1: Claws / Match purple / Espionage = 278 + 100 + 178 + 112 + 178
Turn 2: Match purple / Espionage = 100 + 178 + 112 + 178
Turn 3: Magnetized Field / Translocation / match / Espionage = 636 * 11 + 178 + 100 + 178 + 112 + 178

remylebeau wrote:

Lets do a Wolvie/Doctor Doom/Magneto combo

Turn 3: Magnetized Projectile × 3, Summon Demons, Match anything : (133 + 356) * 3 + (185 + 356) 6 = 4713

Attack tiles only count strike tiles once, not once per attack tile (otherwise modern Storm's hailstorm would be truly absurd), so this is 4579, with 1780 each turn thereafter.

Also, here's a better Mags/Wolvie/IM40:

Boosts: all, r/y, b/p
Turn 1: Match purple / Recharge = 100
Turn 2: Match purple = 100
Turn 3: Claws / Unibeam / Magnetic Field / Translocation / match whatever = 278 + 3559 + 356 + 636 * 11 + 356

Total: 11745 (same if you cast claws on turn 1)

Unknown · January 2014

Didn't notice the 100 set tile match. Kinda wonky since there's so much variation. For example, Mags gets very little damage for matching purple. That plus getting 10 AP in one match was the whole point in pairing obw with Mags. Rules seem too restrictive imo. Why can't I get Espionage but I'm allowed crit from Magnetic field? Which doesn't even display correct damage since you're setting the tile match to 100.

And if Mags is assumed to be able to create a crit from placing 2 blues, can we assume then that g.Widow can create 3 of them?

Also you can't simultaneously have lvl1 Recharge and max damage Unibeam. I feel that these rules don't quite accurately represent the real game mechanics. I'd rather best case scenario even if rare, than ones that are impossible.

Unknown · January 2014

ihearthawthats, the 100 damage per match was arbitrary, because I couldn't be bothered looking up the damage numbers for each user! Most of the damage comes from skills, which is what I was focusing on. I only meant that for normal match 3, since I don't know the calculations for calculating crits, but if you can provide more accurate numbers, go for it!

I've just been working on likely scenarios, but the assumptions are just that, assumptions that guide my theorycrafting, andif you want to put you own combo builds, feel free! I think as long as you put in any assumptions that the plan is based on (ie, you require the AI to make a match turn 1. Otherwise, an additional turn is required to get the neccessary purple). If you want to work with GSBW generating 3 crits, then you need to outline the assumtion of how green needs to be set up to manage to generate that many crits.

I was messagine Mischief this one, which is actually a 4 turn setup for 1* characters

Aiming for a Lightning Strike to power IM (Lighning strike is pretty random, and I need to assume an even distribution of colours hit, to get 2-3AP in every colour. Specifically require 2 Yellow AP, 3 Black AP, and 1 Red AP to be generated)
Boosts - all, r/y, g/b
Turn 1 - Match green
Turn 2 - Match green
Turn 3 - Lightning Strike. Armoured Assault (Maybe. Requires Yellow 2AP from LS). Hailstorm (Maybe. Requires Black 3AP from LS). Match Red
Turn 4 - Repulsor Blast (Maybe. Requires Red 1AP from LS)

Also, my IM40 was just until this morning 5 Red, and 1 Yellow

Was just waiting until the end of Double Shot, but now looking at all this theorycrafting, maybe 1 yellow was the optimal build for getting damage out as quickly as possible!

Theorycraft - Max damage within 3 turns

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