Double subs suck the fun out of the game

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  • Unknown
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    Scoregasms wrote:
    ScrubJay wrote:
    Your thread title is about 6 words too long. Let me fix that for you.

    "Double subs suck"

    TWSS

    Sorry, couldn't resist, lol

    Dude you are killing it in our bracket nice job!
  • Unknown
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    Look on the bright side.... at least it's not the Hunt!

    EDIT: Also, the fact PvE is competitive somewhat mitigates the increased grindiness of a double sub. You don't need to be optimal to place well, you just need to be more optimal than your competitors. Chances are they will love double subs just as much as you and be willing to leave points in nodes to the same degree as you are.
  • Phillipes
    Phillipes Posts: 431 Mover and Shaker
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    arktos1971 wrote:
    konannfriends wrote:
    meh it takes me 30 minutes to complete both ,your roster must be small

    It takes me 80 minutes to clear all 18 nodes, and I have one of the biggest roster in the game.

    Absolutely true, one clear is super long, it will take several hours to clear it whe those subs are going to end.
  • Scoregasms
    Scoregasms Posts: 373
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    EpicBeastmode wrote:

    Dude you are killing it in our bracket nice job!

    Lol, thanks, assume that's you battling it out with me in the top 10, thank god this is over soon. Looking at folks rosters, feels like I'm caught between max 270's and 94 level teams, it's been a battle so far.

    Per the OP's point though, if you're going for top 2, double subs do indeed suck, but the 8 hour refreshes at least make it manageable, 2.5/3 hours for this was way more brutal last time this ran.

    However, I'd rather have this then Survival Nodes, I'm probably in the minority of MPQ'ers though, they just take too long and makes a final grind even more ball-tastic. I'd like them more if they weren't repeatable though, i.e. one time nodes or not worth the metric ton of points they are worth or only have points awarded at the final wave so a wipe doesn't screw you, any one of those would make them more palatable to me, lol.
  • Unknown
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    If only the devs played the game consistently, they'd know what we are talking about.

    Thing is, in the last 2 days, since the double subs started, I start playing at 11 pm in the evening ("JUST" one hour before sub ends), and finish at 2 am in the morning, because I have to clear once at the start of the new subs, play a bit in PvP before going to sleep...

    3 hours in a row is indeed a lot.

    Once you are stuck in a Top 10 Alliance (PvP) you "ought" to play competitively, therefore have the new characters...
  • Unknown
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    There is a bit of prisonner's dilemma going on and people at the top of PvE usually understand how it works. For the first two subs I have a virtual tie with another guy and I can tell we both grinded everything down to 1. Once the double subs begin we cleared just enough to maintain a 10K lead not because of some secret agreement but that getting both sub to 1 would be crazy talk. Sure if we have more than 2 crazy guys it might get scarier but that's what you get when you've a bunch of crazies. I did 4/4 and the other guy with a tie did like 6/3.5 for normal/hard and we end up with basically the same points. I could've grinded a bit more for top 2 in normal (missed it by about 500 points) but doing the hard sub 4 times was already too tiring and I didn't want to play anymore even though the normal sub is of course quite trivial to me. The guy at #3 overall is about 10K behind so I'm guessing that's at most X/3 or even X/2 (the number of grinds that guy did on normal is irrelevent due to missing so many hard subs) which I think is not a particularly nasty pace, and that's #3! By the time you get to #10 they're more than 20K behind and that's easily a X/2 pace and sure doing everything twice in Hell's Kitchen sounds pretty formidable in the last 8 or so hours, but you're talking about top 1% of the competition here.
  • Unknown
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    daibar wrote:
    Completely disagree. Having one easy sub and one sub lets newer players play one sub without feeling left out. Veterans can challenge themselves with the harder sub. The insanos can try to do both, get burnt out, and then treat it like it's the game's fault that they have no self-control. How do they have fun normally?

    I agree with OP but also agree with Daibar. I did it until I was sick of it. Switch to PVP. No longer torture myself. Props to the people that can do it. They are def earning the 3+ covers.
  • Unknown
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    konannfriends wrote:
    DrStrange-616 wrote:
    Despite occasional crankiness (I'm looking at you, roster slot prices) I really do enjoy the game, that is, until I don't. icon_e_smile.gif Like right now. Back to back double subs. It's just too much. The game is fun until you have to clear, clear, grind, grind then do it all again right after. It's just too much.

    I know some will say that you don't have to do any of that. Just play as you wish. But we all know that the game is designed to be played like that. It's just too much. Too repetitive. Too boring. The game is a chore then. And I'm asking myself more and more often, why do I bother? I want to play well. I want to compete. I enjoy it. But requiring prolonged gameplay like this is sucking the fun out of it for me. And if it's not fun...
    meh it takes me 30 minutes to complete both ,your roster must be small


    Clearing 1 2 or 3 subs once is not the problem. It sucks for people competing for top 10 and clearing every node in every sub 4,5,6 times at end. You're looking at 3 hours to end a sub and another 30-45 mins to clear the next event. Three and a half hour commitment every 1.5 days, often times at night. It adds up and drives most insane lol.
  • Unknown
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    I've gone all out this pve and cyclops pve to get a feel for the 8 hour refresh timers.

    First, I don't mind the double subs for the same reason I don't mind heroic pve. It's different and a real challenge. This particular event was tough. I was in slice 1 for pve and pvp with hood and health packs being needed every where.

    Thankfully, one sub is all easy nodes. So I was able to work out a strategy to make it work. If they did make a change, I don't think they need to change it to one sub. I think they could take a page from the Florida sub in The Hunt and just make some nodes in each sub non-repeatable. After all, it's not that they're two subs that's the problem. The real problem is the total number of nodes between the two subs.
  • Wonko33
    Wonko33 Posts: 985 Critical Contributor
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    I don't mind double subs for the simulator PVE but for the other ones they get annoying
  • Unknown
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    Scoregasms wrote:
    EpicBeastmode wrote:

    Dude you are killing it in our bracket nice job!

    Lol, thanks, assume that's you battling it out with me in the top 10, thank god this is over soon. Looking at folks rosters, feels like I'm caught between max 270's and 94 level teams, it's been a battle so far.

    Per the OP's point though, if you're going for top 2, double subs do indeed suck, but the 8 hour refreshes at least make it manageable, 2.5/3 hours for this was way more brutal last time this ran.

    However, I'd rather have this then Survival Nodes, I'm probably in the minority of MPQ'ers though, they just take too long and makes a final grind even more ball-tastic. I'd like them more if they weren't repeatable though, i.e. one time nodes or not worth the metric ton of points they are worth or only have points awarded at the final wave so a wipe doesn't screw you, any one of those would make them more palatable to me, lol.

    I'm pretty sure you are the global leader for slice 1.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,297 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I have been playing terribly sub-optimally due end of season burn-out. I was afraid that would make my strategy of only playing the hard sub several times and the easy sub only once and maybe a double run of the three most valuable nodes not enough to remain top 50. Turns out I was wrong, I'm still top 50. TL;DR you don't have to grind both subs to get two covers.

    Also, in general, when there are two subs each of them has significantly less nodes than a single sub campaign. Both of them together amount to more nodes than a single sub campaign but not by that much. In other words, you are only playing like 4-5 nodes more. When you take in account that you get double the amount of worthless starting nodes (100 points and so) that you hardly ever waste your time grinding, you'll see there's barely any more grinding for potentially twice the rewards.
  • Oldboy
    Oldboy Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
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    As mentioned by others, the problem is the number of nodes to clear and the Hard subs make it even more of a pain.

    However, i can see how having more nodes can be 'beneficial'. The number of nodes allows for differentiation of players. Players who want top 2 that badly know they have to complete all the nodes at proper times. Those willing to forgo top 2 just needs to complete most of the nodes while those in t50 or t150 can get by with just the easy nodes and maybe a few hard nodes.

    If all the nodes were easy or if there were a lot less nodes then points difference become smaller between players in each category. Each clear becomes more important. I started 2 hours after the event started. I'm in 1st now with 30k point difference with #10. If i were to stop playing now with 12 hours left on the clock for the event, i'm pretty sure i could stay in top 10. But that's up to me. If i want top2 then i have to do optimal clear until the event ends. If i'm happy with 'just' top 10, then i could stop now or just do the easy nodes.

    In the Simulator that gave out Luke Cage i was completing both subs in the 1st 2 cycles pretty decently(Top 10). Then i got burned out in the next cycle of double subs and i said "Screw it!" and stopped playing for a long period. About 2 days i think icon_e_biggrin.gif Then i couldn't help myself and i hopped back in and completed only the Hard essentials and all the nodes in Easy sub In the last (or last 2) cycles. Ended up with top 50 and 2 covers of Cage.

    If the event had significantly less nodes, say 50% of what we had, then the points difference become a whole lot smaller and i wouldn't rest just yet even if i wanted top 10.

    So while i dont like to have this many nodes to clear, i can see how it could be beneficial in player differentiation. Only top 2, and maybe top 10, would bear the brunt of it. Those in top 50 with developed rosters would have an easier time. If you're in 2* --> 3* transition, top 50 should be doable. You wont be able to complete all the Hard nodes but i would think that's about right in terms of differentiation between those with more developed rosters and those who have less developed rosters. So you have to decide early on if you really want that 4* cover or if you're just happy with 3/2/1 of the 3*.

    At least this event is not giving out a new 4* icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Unknown
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    arktos1971 wrote:
    konannfriends wrote:
    meh it takes me 30 minutes to complete both ,your roster must be small

    It takes me 80 minutes to clear all 18 nodes, and I have one of the biggest roster in the game.
    Which probably means you have to chop down 16k health goons all the time. People with lower scaling can do subs much faster. Sure you have 4t and xf to outright kill characters but when the board sucks you're basically doing no damage.
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
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    ark123 wrote:
    Which probably means you have to chop down 16k health goons all the time. People with lower scaling can do subs much faster. Sure you have 4t and xf to outright kill characters but when the board sucks you're basically doing no damage.

    Ya, those suck. I think scaling is a good thing but overall it should become easier with better characters, not harder
  • Unknown
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    One sub wouldn't change much beside having half HP and tokens to earn. You may expect that people will magically make half effort with half nodes available, but truth is, they will use that health packs/heroes/time to double clear the only one available, it will be as competitive as ever. The only thing that will be lighter is having to spend less time 'managing' refreshes before final grinddown, but that's only two extra clears total, for double offered reward I can bear it.
  • KrazyKeylime
    KrazyKeylime Posts: 367
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    I'm struggling on the hard sub my maxed 3* patch and BP aren't always cutting it boosted fighting 220+ lvl dudes so i go after the easy sub firts and non optimally clear for all the points early like 12 hours prior to end and then spend the rest of the time mining out the hard nodes that i can consistently clear and grab as many point as can with my health pack until the end starting at 12 hours til to avoid most of the crazy last minute scaling.
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
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    Last sub is a single again.
    But there's a lot of Wolverine in there, so forget about your patch and xfactor icon_e_surprised.gif

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