Mawtful wrote: I've been reading the comic as it's released. I think it's worth noting that, actually, the "Goddess of Thunder" is not the same as Thor. The entire first issue is dedicated to making it very clear that he-Thor is elsewhere, and she-Thor is a unique entity in the universe. So locking 2/3* Thor out of teams with 4* Thor goes against the canon that Marvel has presented.
Square wrote: As for Quesada being EIC, yeah he is. But there's a difference between the editor saying, "Make Thor a woman because we need women!" and them saying okay when an idea is thrown at them. One is an agenda, and one is organic. Do you think Quesada said yes, or that he demanded it happen? Because those are very different things.
I think people being upset about comics diversity and temporary storylines is what gives fanboys a bad name. Comics fanboys are kicking and screaming their way into the 21st century.
Square wrote: Straight white guys see conspiracies everywhere.
Keep in mind, these changes happened over 10 years, under different editors.
In the last 20 years, Marvel and DC have successfully launched two new superhero properties that I can think of: Deadpool (though part of the X-Men world) and Guardians of the Galaxy (which was still an existing title, and existing characters, so it's arguably old). It's very hard to make popular new characters. Really hard. If comic companies want to increase diversity (and they definitely do), existing series/known names are one way to do it. White people will have to be happy with the fact that 80% of comic characters are still straight white people, and more men than women, even though white guys are just 30% of the American population.
I think it's time to share our toys a little more. Just a little.
Eddiemon wrote: Square wrote: Straight white guys see conspiracies everywhere. I like how you opened with the ad hominem, followed it with a deliberate innacuracy.
Keep in mind, these changes happened over 10 years, under different editors. Miles Morales, the first change was 3 years ago, not 10. Everything else has happened subsequently. Ultimate Nick Fury being different to regular Nick was never an issue, ultimate was meant to be different views, and wasn't a replacement. But then white Nick Fury had to have a black son in 616 who happened to jump over every career officer in Shield just to replace him... different story entirely.
...Then I removed all your justifications for why every single change didn't count because you didn't want it to. But mainly because of the next paragraph... In the last 20 years, Marvel and DC have successfully launched two new superhero properties that I can think of: Deadpool (though part of the X-Men world) and Guardians of the Galaxy (which was still an existing title, and existing characters, so it's arguably old). It's very hard to make popular new characters. Really hard. If comic companies want to increase diversity (and they definitely do), existing series/known names are one way to do it. White people will have to be happy with the fact that 80% of comic characters are still straight white people, and more men than women, even though white guys are just 30% of the American population. So I'm a conspiracy nut, none of the changes count, but Marvel had to do it anyway because it was the right thing to do. You're arguing against yourself. And your racism is showing.
Marvel has a universe that they tie things into, so everything is part of everything else. <Snip> These are all 'organic', in that none of them is a cut and replace operation for PR purposes. They are all great additions and make for more diverse storytelling and give more options.
I think it's time to share our toys a little more. Just a little. Why? I pay for my comics. I buy what I like, you buy what you like. That is if you even buy comics.
Ben Grimm wrote: Can we get this thread locked? It's kind of degenerated at this point.
Paintsville wrote: There is something I don't understand, so perhaps I can get a reasonable answer. If I am misreading things, please feel free to correct me. I am reading that changes to established characters (Black Cap, Female Thor, Hispanic Spider-Man) are created for a diverse fan base. I am reading that when new superhero characters that are non white/male were created, it was hard to market. Therefore the only way to get those stories out is to change established characters. But if none of the diverse fan base supports new multicultural characters, what part of the diverse fan base wants old characters "becoming" multicultural? If having female/(whatever race) characters is so desired, then where are the purchases proving it? Is it because a new character with these traits don't make enough of a statement? Aren't as newsworthy? No animosity meant, I truly want opinions. If it matters, I am a Hispanic male.
Paintsville wrote: I am reading that changes to established characters (Black Cap, Female Thor, Hispanic Spider-Man) are created for a diverse fan base.
Square wrote: Paintsville wrote: I am reading that changes to established characters (Black Cap, Female Thor, Hispanic Spider-Man) are created for a diverse fan base. Not exactly. The black/Hispanic Spider-Man was created by a writer who wanted a person of colour for Spider-Man, not a diverse fan base. The Thor and Captain America stories are a short run that will return to normal in short order, and will make no long term difference in the character or the readership.
whitecat31 wrote: Marvel owns the rights to Thor. Disney owns the rights to Marvel. Thor is the direct descent of a God King. Thor is now a Disney Princess.
DayvBang wrote: Well, Mjolnir still can't be in two places at once. Either of them should be able to be paired up with Beta Ray Bill wielding Stormbreaker, though, or I'd be mad. Assuming they ever add BRB, which would be awesome.
_RiO_ wrote: We don't know if the female that took up Mjolnir is actually of royal descent. We know Thor Odinson, a.k.a. the original Thor, is. But he's hardly a princess.