Update on Baron Zemo’s Quests

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@basterdane said:

@Read_Only said:

You think a few covers of shards are an issue? This is nothing to the covers people are getting cover farming playing pvp. The CP number alone is staggering that I've got without the tokens and push to my characters. Seriously this is focusing on the wrong issue as usual.

I can't help resetting my quests. I play on my ipad at home and phone at work. The stupid resetting meant I couldn't finish the fantastic quests. Can they reward me those too?

How about we stop worrying about punishing the players for an absolutely garbage experience. Any extras the players can ring out of this **** show should be applauded. I didn't get any extra covers, I only got the purple and black done but good on anyone who did.

Exactly

There is always going to be a faction of players who white knight for the devs. Who blame the players for the devs lack of testing and who come down hard on folks who they perceive as having some edge on them. It's a victim mindset. There are definitely edge cases where folks are just trying to exploit. But the vast majority of the recent "exploits" were really just the folks who make the game not doing any testing, releasing terribly bugged code, not communicating that they dropped the ball and then blaming players for the bugs which should have been caught with even minimal testing. The game is in a really bad state right now and that wasn't because of a decision that the playerbase made. Unity wasn't something we all voted to implement. And it wasn't something we put out without any testing.

Wait so not agreeing with cheating players is “white knighting”? Quests are reset not the players memory they already earned what they were entitled to. If in doubt ask? I really don’t understand this mentality. Cheating players make a choice and given the previous stance on this there is no grey area.

It's really funny. Imagine some guy with a bunch of unleveled 2* is attacking you over and over in PvP using the one hit kill hack, and saying "Gosh, those dang developers! It's not this player's fault that he's targeting me over and over! The problem is that the one hit kill hack exists -- this guy isn't doing anything wrong by exploiting it."

Like, man, that guy is laughing at you. (I would be!). He's cheating to get one over on you, and you're making excuses for him and shifting the blame to somebody else.

If you think casual, noncompetitive players are resetting quests hundreds of times to farm rewards, I've got a bridge to sell you.

If someone did this a handful of times I couldn't care less about it and they shouldn't be punished for it. That would be profoundly dumb and nobody is arguing for that. It's a straw man meant to protect hardcore cheaters who spent days exploiting these bugs, and like why. Why do we want to protect cheaters who are trying to screw us over?

This game is not and has never been "players vs devs." It's player vs player, I understand that and the cheaters do too, so why do they have a bunch of shooters going "well it's not their fault!" It is their fault! They chose to cheat!

@entrailbucket said:
If you think casual, noncompetitive players are resetting quests hundreds of times to farm rewards, I've got a bridge to sell you.

If someone did this a handful of times I couldn't care less about it and they shouldn't be punished for it. That would be profoundly dumb and nobody is arguing for that. It's a straw man meant to protect hardcore cheaters who spent days exploiting these bugs, and like why. Why do we want to protect cheaters who are trying to screw us over?

This game is not and has never been "players vs devs." It's player vs player, I understand that and the cheaters do too, so why do they have a bunch of shooters going "well it's not their fault!" It is their fault! They chose to cheat!

And just to add to this - if you are really suffering as I was with the game where you couldn't even finish a match (I lost to a seed team!) no way you can be playing 100s of matches to do this, meaning you were never that impacted to begin with.

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@basterdane said:

@Read_Only said:

You think a few covers of shards are an issue? This is nothing to the covers people are getting cover farming playing pvp. The CP number alone is staggering that I've got without the tokens and push to my characters. Seriously this is focusing on the wrong issue as usual.

I can't help resetting my quests. I play on my ipad at home and phone at work. The stupid resetting meant I couldn't finish the fantastic quests. Can they reward me those too?

How about we stop worrying about punishing the players for an absolutely garbage experience. Any extras the players can ring out of this **** show should be applauded. I didn't get any extra covers, I only got the purple and black done but good on anyone who did.

Exactly

There is always going to be a faction of players who white knight for the devs. Who blame the players for the devs lack of testing and who come down hard on folks who they perceive as having some edge on them. It's a victim mindset. There are definitely edge cases where folks are just trying to exploit. But the vast majority of the recent "exploits" were really just the folks who make the game not doing any testing, releasing terribly bugged code, not communicating that they dropped the ball and then blaming players for the bugs which should have been caught with even minimal testing. The game is in a really bad state right now and that wasn't because of a decision that the playerbase made. Unity wasn't something we all voted to implement. And it wasn't something we put out without any testing.

Wait so not agreeing with cheating players is “white knighting”? Quests are reset not the players memory they already earned what they were entitled to. If in doubt ask? I really don’t understand this mentality. Cheating players make a choice and given the previous stance on this there is no grey area.

The egregious cheaters get banned, they get sandboxed and rolled back. What I am saying is that the energy wasted on a tiny minority is just that, energy wasted. More folks are being negatively affected by bugs than the tiny group of folks who have used them to nefarious ends. The real ire should be reserved for whoever made the decision to upturn the apple cart and switch to Unity which has been a buggy un-tested disaster.

I've played hundreds of matches this past week, most likely well into the thousands. I have not seen a single champed Zemo. I have on the other hand experienced plenty of lag, phone is still super hot, had a couple of freezes and resets.

@entrailbucket said:
I think the devs have done a terrible job with this rollout -- the decision to do it was silly, it took forever, and then when it showed up everything was broken. Everything is STILL broken. PvP is a mind-numbingly boring slog.

If you recall, it happened when someone accidentally let the Unity update go out for Kindle devices. Rather than just tell Kindle players they were borked for a couple of weeks until they could roll back on the next update they decided to push everyone (Android + Apple) onto Unity to match what had been done to the poor Steam players. That's the decision that's going to haunt them forever because they absolutely had to know it wasn't ready for general release (the Steam base alone was screaming that it wasn't). I'll always wonder if (ie fully believe) that Kindle release didn't happen whether Android/Apple users wouldn't still be on the old engine.

KGB

@bluewolf said:
The rollout was NOT pushed forward because of accidental Kindle update.

They fully intended to release a buggy yet mostly “working” build.

Once the beta proved people could play the game - basically, most of the time, without too many game breaking issues - they pushed it to Steam. Then Kindle to let them finally play again (also, it’s probably the smallest group of players and a decent test group).

Then everyone else so they could just be working on Unity for all platforms. They were a month in at that point on live beta players and maintaining two builds

In a way it makes sense.

Again I’m just glad they finally figured out how to make quests act right, again.

They probably just ran out of time/budget. Nobody's going to let a rebuild project drag on forever, and this one had been going for a long time. At some point the boss is going to force you to either ship it or kill the project. They probably figured they could clean up whatever outstanding bugs were around post-release (a terrible idea!).

@bluewolf said:

@entrailbucket said:

@bluewolf said:
The rollout was NOT pushed forward because of accidental Kindle update.

They fully intended to release a buggy yet mostly “working” build.

Once the beta proved people could play the game - basically, most of the time, without too many game breaking issues - they pushed it to Steam. Then Kindle to let them finally play again (also, it’s probably the smallest group of players and a decent test group).

Then everyone else so they could just be working on Unity for all platforms. They were a month in at that point on live beta players and maintaining two builds

In a way it makes sense.

Again I’m just glad they finally figured out how to make quests act right, again.

They probably just ran out of time/budget. Nobody's going to let a rebuild project drag on forever, and this one had been going for a long time. At some point the boss is going to force you to either ship it or kill the project. They probably figured they could clean up whatever outstanding bugs were around post-release (a terrible idea!).

Do I think that's the case? yes, absolutely. I just wanted it to be clear it wasn't that their hand was forced by the accidental Kindle push; that was incidental to their actual plans.

However, I do think that as you say, someone from higher up pushed the update timeline significantly up, whoever that was, from their initial plans since they had communicated something different at first with a slower rollout.

Ah, I see. I wonder whether the initial timeline they gave us was ever approved (or if it even officially existed).

@entrailbucket said:
I think it's a pretty bold (and likely hilariously wrong) assumption that they can't punish cheaters and fix bugs at the same time. How long did it take them to disable the quests?

Depending on how you look at this: not fast at all.

The exploitable bug was reported August 12: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/92416/new-issue-ipad-to-iphone-resets-most-quests

On Discord there were several reports about people farming the Fantastic Four characters after this forum post. Including screenshots of clearly highly unusual levels considering the rest of the roster.

Not a single Dev response to any of this.

Only when the reports of champed Zemo’s showed up did they act (see this thread). And only to cut out the last few hours of the quests. They released the Zemo quests in the first place while being aware. I would consider 15 days quite a slow response rate. And it actually does make me think they don’t have the bandwidth to do both.

Another case in point: the egregious exploit post that angered the majority of the player base (who are on social platforms). It felt hasty and not thought-through well enough. A sign to me about not having the bandwidth to deal with it properly.

Another way to look at this, possibly through your lens, is that we don’t know how many people got sandboxed or rolled back for it. Maybe that has happened behind the scenes in the last 2 weeks… I doubt it though.

@Godzillafan67 said:
I'm pretty sure the devs decided this needed fixing when folks started sporting their stylishly clothed Lokis before one should have normally been able to unlock the costume from the Season Pass.

I fixed that for you.

@BriMan2222 said:

@Godzillafan67 said:
I'm pretty sure the devs decided this needed fixing when folks started sporting their supermario clothed Lokis before one should have normally been able to unlock the costume from the Season Pass.

I fixed it for real for you

I fixed it again!