JUSTICE FOR PHOENIX
Comments
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We also have the clutch of releases that were meant to be made better by Supports, another booster this week Ultron being the poster boy.
The Devs have a LOT of work to do but may not bother getting round to it.
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@entrailbucket said:
@KGB said:
@JoeHandle said:
@entrailbucket said:
@Borstock said:
@entrailbucket said:
@DAZ0273 said:
@kuntilanak said:
I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.I dunno. I mean selling basically the same thing to us twice must be a retailers dream. If it was me I would be all over us! Maybe the Devs have more ethics!
Exactly this. Making an old 5* relevant/necessary/required for competitors would make them TONS of money. Imagine they buff Odin to be the new "meta" guy -- the entire high level player base now has to figure out how to 550 him, and most of them have him at like 450 now!
I can't tell if this is a joke or not. In theory, forcing people to chase the historically least chased characters would definitely force some movement.
Except wasn't Odin released during the period of time where every new character was getting 550'd? I suspect there are secretly a decent number of high level versions out there.
Not a joke!
It's actually not even that farfetched. Look what happened with Juggernaut -- how fast did the entire game get him to 550?
hmmm .... not sure, as I'm still working on that. Sorry for holding up the show
Targeted buffing of underused SKUs as meand of stimulating revenue ... seems to me this suggest getting revenue from newer spenders ... assumes there are newer spenders ... and from smaller spenders who wouldn't have gone nutballs on principal over a new character that underwhelmed.
That would be a really poor way of generating revenue. The obvious reason is anyone who has the buffed character at 550 or close isn't going to spend anything. FAR better to release a new uber character (looking at you Frankie) and get EVERYONE spending to 550 them.
KGB
@entrailbucket said:
@DAZ0273 said:
This week's boost list has me thinking we have another candidate. Gamora. Her yellow should be her star power but I have fired it three times and the repeater has not survived long enough to stun anybody. I have no doubt the 4a5 version is much better. Gotta fortify that thing or something.She's another "counter" character for an old metagame that didn't work as a counter and is now basically useless. Noticing a pattern?
Nah, no idea what yer gettin' at, sir
TeenJean was/is boosted last week ... remember how she countered the 4PX-driven match-5 meta? Anyone ... ? Anyone ... ? 10yrs gone. Now for years her only in-game use if trolling players in DDQ.
Even tho, with a tuneup, she could be useful in countering tiles, a good chunk of her kit would (resumably) still be wasted on the exceedingly situational anti-match 5 alarm system. Unless there was a more thoughtful and extensive rework.
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@JoeHandle said:
@entrailbucket said:
@KGB said:
@JoeHandle said:
@entrailbucket said:
@Borstock said:
@entrailbucket said:
@DAZ0273 said:
@kuntilanak said:
I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.I dunno. I mean selling basically the same thing to us twice must be a retailers dream. If it was me I would be all over us! Maybe the Devs have more ethics!
Exactly this. Making an old 5* relevant/necessary/required for competitors would make them TONS of money. Imagine they buff Odin to be the new "meta" guy -- the entire high level player base now has to figure out how to 550 him, and most of them have him at like 450 now!
I can't tell if this is a joke or not. In theory, forcing people to chase the historically least chased characters would definitely force some movement.
Except wasn't Odin released during the period of time where every new character was getting 550'd? I suspect there are secretly a decent number of high level versions out there.
Not a joke!
It's actually not even that farfetched. Look what happened with Juggernaut -- how fast did the entire game get him to 550?
hmmm .... not sure, as I'm still working on that. Sorry for holding up the show
Targeted buffing of underused SKUs as meand of stimulating revenue ... seems to me this suggest getting revenue from newer spenders ... assumes there are newer spenders ... and from smaller spenders who wouldn't have gone nutballs on principal over a new character that underwhelmed.
That would be a really poor way of generating revenue. The obvious reason is anyone who has the buffed character at 550 or close isn't going to spend anything. FAR better to release a new uber character (looking at you Frankie) and get EVERYONE spending to 550 them.
KGB
@entrailbucket said:
@DAZ0273 said:
This week's boost list has me thinking we have another candidate. Gamora. Her yellow should be her star power but I have fired it three times and the repeater has not survived long enough to stun anybody. I have no doubt the 4a5 version is much better. Gotta fortify that thing or something.She's another "counter" character for an old metagame that didn't work as a counter and is now basically useless. Noticing a pattern?
Nah, no idea what yer gettin' at, sir
TeenJean was/is boosted last week ... remember how she countered the 4PX-driven match-5 meta? Anyone ... ? Anyone ... ? 10yrs gone. Now for years her only in-game use if trolling players in DDQ.
Even tho, with a tuneup, she could be useful in countering tiles, a good chunk of her kit would (resumably) still be wasted on the exceedingly situational anti-match 5 alarm system. Unless there was a more thoughtful and extensive rework.
What I can't figure out is whether the "don't nerf the overpowered guys, give us counters!" crowd is aware of the track record, or if they're just purposely choosing to ignore it.
I strongly suspect they say this because they know how horrifyingly terrible the devs are at creating counters, and they don't want their overpowered toys to be nerfed or countered. "Don't nerf, give us a counter" is a great way to make sure nothing ever gets nerfed or effectively countered.
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Forget Phoenix this poor guy can beat The Avengers on his own and is considered a one of the best bad guys in the Marvel Universe he was boosted for the last class and barely made a scratch on ascended four stars1 -
Thanos is really difficult because he falls into the "guy who is overall bad but does that one thing" category. 2016 classmate Black Suit Spiderman is in there too.
It's probably why they haven't gotten buffs yet, and it's why buffing them would be slightly complicated -- they don't really make characters like that anymore, so I'd worry that they'd have to tone down that one thing if they were to fix his other powers to not be trash.
At the very least these guys need numbers buffs. You can see what 5* Thanos should look like when you look at Ascended 3* Thanos.
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@entrailbucket said:
Thanos is really difficult because he falls into the "guy who is overall bad but does that one thing" category. 2016 classmate Black Suit Spiderman is in there too.It's probably why they haven't gotten buffs yet, and it's why buffing them would be slightly complicated -- they don't really make characters like that anymore, so I'd worry that they'd have to tone down that one thing if they were to fix his other powers to not be trash.
At the very least these guys need numbers buffs. You can see what 5* Thanos should look like when you look at Ascended 3* Thanos.
I suspect 5 star Thanos at least would be a TON more viable if his Purple just had a passive component that auto-placed one of those CD's at the start of battle to deny enemies doing anything on the board for 3 (4 at 5 cover) turns (along with the obvious match/health adjustments). That change alone would make him very viable against MThor for example.
KGB
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@KGB said:
@entrailbucket said:
Thanos is really difficult because he falls into the "guy who is overall bad but does that one thing" category. 2016 classmate Black Suit Spiderman is in there too.It's probably why they haven't gotten buffs yet, and it's why buffing them would be slightly complicated -- they don't really make characters like that anymore, so I'd worry that they'd have to tone down that one thing if they were to fix his other powers to not be trash.
At the very least these guys need numbers buffs. You can see what 5* Thanos should look like when you look at Ascended 3* Thanos.
I suspect 5 star Thanos at least would be a TON more viable if his Purple just had a passive component that auto-placed one of those CD's at the start of battle to deny enemies doing anything on the board for 3 (4 at 5 cover) turns (along with the obvious match/health adjustments). That change alone would make him very viable against MThor for example.
KGB
Yeah, I've heard that mentioned before, but it would turn off PvE goons for very low level players, and that might not be something they want to do. But maybe now there are enough ways for new players to beat goons that it doesn't matter.
I dunno, thinking about it a bit more I'm not even sure Thanos does the thing anymore. We have so many passive and/or support-fed AoEs now that Court Death probably isn't even a consideration for most players.
Even BSS, whose that one thing is completely unique (and very powerful when you need it!), is rarely called for. He absolutely owned Juggernaut/Sam and nobody even bothered with him during their reign.
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@entrailbucket said:
@KGB said:
@entrailbucket said:
Thanos is really difficult because he falls into the "guy who is overall bad but does that one thing" category. 2016 classmate Black Suit Spiderman is in there too.It's probably why they haven't gotten buffs yet, and it's why buffing them would be slightly complicated -- they don't really make characters like that anymore, so I'd worry that they'd have to tone down that one thing if they were to fix his other powers to not be trash.
At the very least these guys need numbers buffs. You can see what 5* Thanos should look like when you look at Ascended 3* Thanos.
I suspect 5 star Thanos at least would be a TON more viable if his Purple just had a passive component that auto-placed one of those CD's at the start of battle to deny enemies doing anything on the board for 3 (4 at 5 cover) turns (along with the obvious match/health adjustments). That change alone would make him very viable against MThor for example.
KGB
Yeah, I've heard that mentioned before, but it would turn off PvE goons for very low level players, and that might not be something they want to do. But maybe now there are enough ways for new players to beat goons that it doesn't matter.
I dunno, thinking about it a bit more I'm not even sure Thanos does the thing anymore. We have so many passive and/or support-fed AoEs now that Court Death probably isn't even a consideration for most players.
Even BSS, whose that one thing is completely unique (and very powerful when you need it!), is rarely called for. He absolutely owned Juggernaut/Sam and nobody even bothered with him during their reign.
To be fair, how many people do you think have a champed BSSM much less one in the L500+ range like you do (I'm presuming you do)? Given how old he is, how he's never in stores etc I'd bet 1% of the 550 players have him at L500+ and that's before considering his poor health/match damage/expensive powers issues (so he was unable to tank which is what he needed to do). So it's unsurprising you didn't see him.
Something tells me that if they had released a brand new 550 with the same strike tile immunity around Jugger/Sam's reign that character would have been used a ton (for example imagine if JuggerDuck had that skill).
As for Thanos, I don't think a turn 0 placement of that tile is game breaking vs goons since most need 3+ turns to auto generate enough AP to place a CD anyway so by then the CD would be gone. But that would be huge vs MThor or Polaris type teams.
KGB
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@KGB said:
@entrailbucket said:
@KGB said:
@entrailbucket said:
Thanos is really difficult because he falls into the "guy who is overall bad but does that one thing" category. 2016 classmate Black Suit Spiderman is in there too.It's probably why they haven't gotten buffs yet, and it's why buffing them would be slightly complicated -- they don't really make characters like that anymore, so I'd worry that they'd have to tone down that one thing if they were to fix his other powers to not be trash.
At the very least these guys need numbers buffs. You can see what 5* Thanos should look like when you look at Ascended 3* Thanos.
I suspect 5 star Thanos at least would be a TON more viable if his Purple just had a passive component that auto-placed one of those CD's at the start of battle to deny enemies doing anything on the board for 3 (4 at 5 cover) turns (along with the obvious match/health adjustments). That change alone would make him very viable against MThor for example.
KGB
Yeah, I've heard that mentioned before, but it would turn off PvE goons for very low level players, and that might not be something they want to do. But maybe now there are enough ways for new players to beat goons that it doesn't matter.
I dunno, thinking about it a bit more I'm not even sure Thanos does the thing anymore. We have so many passive and/or support-fed AoEs now that Court Death probably isn't even a consideration for most players.
Even BSS, whose that one thing is completely unique (and very powerful when you need it!), is rarely called for. He absolutely owned Juggernaut/Sam and nobody even bothered with him during their reign.
To be fair, how many people do you think have a champed BSSM much less one in the L500+ range like you do (I'm presuming you do)? Given how old he is, how he's never in stores etc I'd bet 1% of the 550 players have him at L500+ and that's before considering his poor health/match damage/expensive powers issues (so he was unable to tank which is what he needed to do). So it's unsurprising you didn't see him.
Something tells me that if they had released a brand new 550 with the same strike tile immunity around Jugger/Sam's reign that character would have been used a ton (for example imagine if JuggerDuck had that skill).
As for Thanos, I don't think a turn 0 placement of that tile is game breaking vs goons since most need 3+ turns to auto generate enough AP to place a CD anyway so by then the CD would be gone. But that would be huge vs MThor or Polaris type teams.
KGB
Mine's 550 and even at 672 I found him useless! But I generally kinda hate defensive characters (I'd rather just win fast, and I don't care about burning packs to do it).
I'm surprised we didn't see him used by lower tier players who were just playing for wins though. Maybe they don't have him at all.
If they gave us this guy now the power would definitely be part of a much better overall package, because they don't do guys like BSS anymore.
I suppose there could still be some use for him eventually. Maybe a boss that makes huge strike tiles but does almost nothing else.
That's a good point about the Thanos thing you described. It might actually be a disadvantage against goons, because they'd dump all their CDs at once when it expired!
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I use BSSM against Kaecilius
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BSSM by all accounts should be good - immune to strikes, stuns on 2 colors, goes invisible when an enemy is stunned. He has a lot going on. But that green power still costs 14ap and he has 4* health with trivial match damage (mine is level 460 - he has 50k health, and his 3 strong color matches are blue: 690, green: 614, and purple: 537). When he is boosted I'll occasionally run him with a 5* power stone to get the free powers here and there, but I don't really feel like the strike tile game in pvp is all that prevalent anymore.
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Class of 2017 is coming up - this ought to be interesting. Some solid contenders post-ascension in this list. Going to be a lot of Rocket teams this event.
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@entrailbucket said:
@KGB said:
@entrailbucket said:
Thanos is really difficult because he falls into the "guy who is overall bad but does that one thing" category. 2016 classmate Black Suit Spiderman is in there too.It's probably why they haven't gotten buffs yet, and it's why buffing them would be slightly complicated -- they don't really make characters like that anymore, so I'd worry that they'd have to tone down that one thing if they were to fix his other powers to not be trash.
At the very least these guys need numbers buffs. You can see what 5* Thanos should look like when you look at Ascended 3* Thanos.
I suspect 5 star Thanos at least would be a TON more viable if his Purple just had a passive component that auto-placed one of those CD's at the start of battle to deny enemies doing anything on the board for 3 (4 at 5 cover) turns (along with the obvious match/health adjustments). That change alone would make him very viable against MThor for example.
KGB
Yeah, I've heard that mentioned before, but it would turn off PvE goons for very low level players, and that might not be something they want to do. But maybe now there are enough ways for new players to beat goons that it doesn't matter.
I dunno, thinking about it a bit more I'm not even sure Thanos does the thing anymore. We have so many passive and/or support-fed AoEs now that Court Death probably isn't even a consideration for most players.
Even BSS, whose that one thing is completely unique (and very powerful when you need it!), is rarely called for. He absolutely owned Juggernaut/Sam and nobody even bothered with him during their reign.
Once again, I am absolutely nobody. Danggit.
BSSM has been thoroughly obsoleted, even vs SamJuggs. Even tho he can negate the strike game, he has no offensive output. Defense is cute, but it does nothing to win. He gets bludgeoned to death by the AoE and "modern" 5* match DMG, and even if those are set aside, he STILL loses, being at a massive health disadvantage. No endurance.
Pair with Quake to save vs AoE, color overlaps, limited offense.
Pair with 5Electro, a little better, but still limited offense, and no protection from the enemy other powers and higher match DMG.
Pair with 5Electro and OR, now fairly solid, but only possible in pick-3, and BSSM contributes nothing beyond strike insurance.
Pair with 5Electro and Pretty pool .... and BSSM isn't needed at all. Thoroughly obsoleted. Poor guy
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