JUSTICE FOR PHOENIX

Bustapup

@BlackBoltRocks said:
Seeing Black Bolt mentioned so many times just makes me sad. Relating this to the OP: Phoenix is like 10 times better than him. Namor and Storm do boardshake much better; Storm and Jane (and now Frankie) do Charged tiles much better. Even Odin does the "boost allies' ability levels" better. That said, if the devs are reading this and would like to release Black Bolt in a 1:5 or 1:6 store during anniversary, I'd gladly blow my resources to 550 him just like @MegaBee 550ing Juggerduck, Black Bolt will be my magnum opus in this game.

I haven't seen any mention of Wasp yet (unless I missed it). Even after her "buff" she's useless.

Surfer is actually pretty decent. Just lower his Black to 8 AP and he's fine, around Moon Knight's level.

As for Okoye...yes I was just musing that she's fallen off significantly. I thought of commenting, in relation to the OP, that normal humans like Okoye, Killmonger, and Jessica Jones are 5* , so that particular argument about Phoenix is invalid. Anyway, I've gone from using Okoye to using Emma as a support to Omega Red, because Emma is more consistent, and I don't have to worry about gaining or losing Teamup AP.

There are over 100 5* in the game. It's a fact that only a handful will be good, and out of that, you can only use 2 or 3 per match. Players will gravitate towards those that are competitively viable or their personal favourites. It's inevitable that the vast majority will fall by the wayside. Add to that ascension, which means a good number of 1s, 2, 3s, and 4s, are much more viable than natural 5s, and that exacerbates the problem.

I'm of the view that the minimum for every single 5* should be "very good when boosted", because it allows players to target and use their faves (me with Black Bolt, Bustapup with Phoenix, MegaBee with Juggerduck etc). Not everyone cares about the competitive aspect, and even if they do, once again, how many players can realistically compete for top 10 or top spot in every single PVE and PVP event? How many players religiously follow the bracket flips and optimise PVE clears? Having most of the meta characters is usually enough to get decent placement like top 100.

Completely agree. Too many 5-star characters becoming obsolete is a huge problem.

The devs have the power to fix this, and it doesn't have to be a massive overhaul. There are a few different ways they could approach it I think

Dedicated Supports for Certain Niche Characters

This is so common in other gacha games like Genshin Impact for a reason. It breathes new life into older units without having to completely rework them.

We've seen how successful this can be in MPQ already with characters like Valkyrie, Mei & May, or the symbiotic relationship between Meteorite and Winter Soldier with Thunderbolts and Captain Britain for Excalibur.

Expanding on this concept could provide a great solution for characters like Black Bolt.

For example, a new 4-star Inhuman could have abilities that specifically boost Black Bolt's mechanics. Instead of just "more special tiles," a support character could:

• Make his abilities more efficient: "When a countdown tile on a Black Bolt team member's power resolves, reduce the cost of Black Bolt's other powers by 1 AP." This directly makes his powerful, but expensive, abilities more accessible.

• Enhance his special tiles: "Whenever and Inhuman creates a special tile, create 3 more of that tile or 3 different tiles. This would give more unique synergies for characters like Medusa, Crystal and Karnak and give players another option other than the obvious ones like Polaris

Adding New Utility to Older Characters

The developers could also introduce new mechanics that benefit characters with older, less-used abilities. Black Bolt's board shake could be given a new purpose. A new support character might have a passive ability that says, "When an ally's power shuffles or destroys the board, all team members recover a percentage of their maximum health and deal a small amount of damage to the enemy team."

This kind of thing would turn a once-niche power into a powerful source of healing and passive damage, making characters like Black Bolt and Namor viable again without any direct changes to their kits.

Ultimately, this approach would not only give us more viable team-building options but also fulfill the "wish fulfillment" aspect of the game. Players could invest in their favorite characters and make them competitive, even if they aren't part of the top-tier meta. It's a win-win: it gives players more reasons to pull for new characters and lets them enjoy their favorites without feeling like they're at a massive disadvantage.

Bustapup

@DAZ0273 said:
And look how fast somebody can go from must have is on every team to borderline obsolete. Hi Okoye.

I've thought about this before as a previous Okoye stan and asked A.I a bunch of questions to create a new 4* and hey presto (I think this is a cool concept tbh)

New Support Character for Okoye: Ayo (Dora Milaje Commander)

• Rarity: 4-Star
• Colors: Yellow, Green, Black

Concept: As a leader of the Dora Milaje, Ayo provides tactical support and unparalleled protection on the battlefield, ensuring Okoye's damage-boosting abilities are always at their maximum potential and that she can withstand any assault.

1. Strategic Reserves (Yellow Passive)
   • At the start of your turn, Ayo generates 1 Team-Up AP. This increases to 2 Team-Up AP for every ally per Fortified tile maximum of 6 (so each fortified tile gives an extra 2 ap for one team member so if you have 3 fortified but only 2 characters left alive you will get 4 instead of 6.)

Additionally, whenever an enemy makes a match of a fortified tile, Ayo generates 1 Team-Up AP.

• Why it works: This power is designed for consistency. The passive generation ensures Okoye's damage bonus grows steadily. The bonus for Fortified tiles incentivizes teamwork and rewards strategic play, while also directly addressing the issue of losing Team-Up AP.

2. Protector's Vow (Active, Green, 9 AP)
   • "Ayo fortifies all friendly special tiles. For the next two turns, the ally with the highest health takes 50% less damage from all match damage and powers."

• Why it works: This is the direct solution to Okoye's tanking vulnerability. Ayo’s power not only protects special tiles but also creates a significant damage reduction shield around your primary tank (likely Okoye). This allows her to absorb huge amounts of damage without fear, making her a much more reliable anchor for the team.

3. Coordinated Assault (Passive, Black)
   • "Whenever a Team-Up tile is matched or destroyed, Ayo reduces the AP cost of your team's most expensive active power by 2 AP."

• Why it works: This power supercharges Okoye's core mechanic. Since Ayo's Yellow power will be generating Team-Up AP consistently, her Black ability will be constantly reducing the cost of your team's most powerful abilities. This allows Okoye's team to fire their most impactful moves far more often, turning her from a simple passive damage booster into a power-generating engine for the entire team.

stef_focus

@BlackBoltRocks said:

As for Okoye...yes I was just musing that she's fallen off significantly. I thought of commenting, in relation to the OP, that normal humans like Okoye, Killmonger, and Jessica Jones are 5* , so that particular argument about Phoenix is invalid.

I just can't resist a nitpick here. Jessica Jones is not a normal human. For her whole comic and cinematic superhero career she has had superstrenth, superdurability, and some other stuff.
Okoye, yes, is a normal human. Killmonger was normal, then became not-normal (resurrection, herbs, spices)

Phoenix for her comic/cinematic power is grossly underpowered compared to other characters. She is in the same (game) league as Big Wheel ;-)

kuntilanak

I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.

Borstock

Didn't read everything, but just came here to say that Phoenix is actually very useful for a lot of chores. I use her all the time for red matches and in the gauntlet.

BriMan2222

It's funny, it doesn't seem like it was all that long ago that there were a couple of "nerf okoye" threads on this forum

DAZ0273

@BriMan2222 said:
It's funny, it doesn't seem like it was all that long ago that there were a couple of "nerf okoye" threads on this forum

Well one at least was just a troll from Discord. She should make a comeback in one of the Class of events (2017?) - dunno if that means Thorkoye or not as the cut off points on these were a bit weird and I think Thor might count in one after or one before.

DAZ0273

@kuntilanak said:
I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.

I dunno. I mean selling basically the same thing to us twice must be a retailers dream. If it was me I would be all over us! Maybe the Devs have more ethics!

entrailbucket

The problem with Okoye is that Iron May exists.

JoeHandle

@entrailbucket said:
The problem with Okoye is that Iron May exists.

She is also quite old, 7yrs old last May. Had quite a run by MPQ standards. Defied the odds re: being obsoleted. Being upstaged by a 3* was pretty rough. New players have the better thing long before getting to her.

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@kuntilanak said:
I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.

I dunno. I mean selling basically the same thing to us twice must be a retailers dream. If it was me I would be all over us! Maybe the Devs have more ethics!

Exactly this. Making an old 5* relevant/necessary/required for competitors would make them TONS of money. Imagine they buff Odin to be the new "meta" guy -- the entire high level player base now has to figure out how to 550 him, and most of them have him at like 450 now!

Borstock

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@kuntilanak said:
I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.

I dunno. I mean selling basically the same thing to us twice must be a retailers dream. If it was me I would be all over us! Maybe the Devs have more ethics!

Exactly this. Making an old 5* relevant/necessary/required for competitors would make them TONS of money. Imagine they buff Odin to be the new "meta" guy -- the entire high level player base now has to figure out how to 550 him, and most of them have him at like 450 now!

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. In theory, forcing people to chase the historically least chased characters would definitely force some movement.

Except wasn't Odin released during the period of time where every new character was getting 550'd? I suspect there are secretly a decent number of high level versions out there.

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@kuntilanak said:
I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.

I dunno. I mean selling basically the same thing to us twice must be a retailers dream. If it was me I would be all over us! Maybe the Devs have more ethics!

Exactly this. Making an old 5* relevant/necessary/required for competitors would make them TONS of money. Imagine they buff Odin to be the new "meta" guy -- the entire high level player base now has to figure out how to 550 him, and most of them have him at like 450 now!

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. In theory, forcing people to chase the historically least chased characters would definitely force some movement.

Except wasn't Odin released during the period of time where every new character was getting 550'd? I suspect there are secretly a decent number of high level versions out there.

Not a joke!

It's actually not even that farfetched. Look what happened with Juggernaut -- how fast did the entire game get him to 550?

ThaRoadWarrior

I’ll be feeling pretty good with my 471 Odin then I guess. Those 450s can kick rocks!

JoeHandle

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@kuntilanak said:
I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.

I dunno. I mean selling basically the same thing to us twice must be a retailers dream. If it was me I would be all over us! Maybe the Devs have more ethics!

Exactly this. Making an old 5* relevant/necessary/required for competitors would make them TONS of money. Imagine they buff Odin to be the new "meta" guy -- the entire high level player base now has to figure out how to 550 him, and most of them have him at like 450 now!

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. In theory, forcing people to chase the historically least chased characters would definitely force some movement.

Except wasn't Odin released during the period of time where every new character was getting 550'd? I suspect there are secretly a decent number of high level versions out there.

Not a joke!

It's actually not even that farfetched. Look what happened with Juggernaut -- how fast did the entire game get him to 550?

hmmm .... not sure, as I'm still working on that. Sorry for holding up the show

Targeted buffing of underused SKUs as meand of stimulating revenue ... seems to me this suggest getting revenue from newer spenders ... assumes there are newer spenders ... and from smaller spenders who wouldn't have gone nutballs on principal over a new character that underwhelmed.

Sems to me it would take more savvy marketing that just put it out there and assume the money will come in ... that worked on the whales who maxed everything just because. A steady drip feed of smaller offers, low-barrier to entry chains, and small vaults. A drip feed over time.

Whatever it takes to convince the pubs / devs to tune up the dusty, creaky old geezers, let's go. Take my credit card ... to the likker sto' ...

KGB

@JoeHandle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@kuntilanak said:
I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.

I dunno. I mean selling basically the same thing to us twice must be a retailers dream. If it was me I would be all over us! Maybe the Devs have more ethics!

Exactly this. Making an old 5* relevant/necessary/required for competitors would make them TONS of money. Imagine they buff Odin to be the new "meta" guy -- the entire high level player base now has to figure out how to 550 him, and most of them have him at like 450 now!

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. In theory, forcing people to chase the historically least chased characters would definitely force some movement.

Except wasn't Odin released during the period of time where every new character was getting 550'd? I suspect there are secretly a decent number of high level versions out there.

Not a joke!

It's actually not even that farfetched. Look what happened with Juggernaut -- how fast did the entire game get him to 550?

hmmm .... not sure, as I'm still working on that. Sorry for holding up the show

Targeted buffing of underused SKUs as meand of stimulating revenue ... seems to me this suggest getting revenue from newer spenders ... assumes there are newer spenders ... and from smaller spenders who wouldn't have gone nutballs on principal over a new character that underwhelmed.

That would be a really poor way of generating revenue. The obvious reason is anyone who has the buffed character at 550 or close isn't going to spend anything. FAR better to release a new uber character (looking at you Frankie) and get EVERYONE spending to 550 them.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@JoeHandle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@kuntilanak said:
I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.

I dunno. I mean selling basically the same thing to us twice must be a retailers dream. If it was me I would be all over us! Maybe the Devs have more ethics!

Exactly this. Making an old 5* relevant/necessary/required for competitors would make them TONS of money. Imagine they buff Odin to be the new "meta" guy -- the entire high level player base now has to figure out how to 550 him, and most of them have him at like 450 now!

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. In theory, forcing people to chase the historically least chased characters would definitely force some movement.

Except wasn't Odin released during the period of time where every new character was getting 550'd? I suspect there are secretly a decent number of high level versions out there.

Not a joke!

It's actually not even that farfetched. Look what happened with Juggernaut -- how fast did the entire game get him to 550?

hmmm .... not sure, as I'm still working on that. Sorry for holding up the show

Targeted buffing of underused SKUs as meand of stimulating revenue ... seems to me this suggest getting revenue from newer spenders ... assumes there are newer spenders ... and from smaller spenders who wouldn't have gone nutballs on principal over a new character that underwhelmed.

That would be a really poor way of generating revenue. The obvious reason is anyone who has the buffed character at 550 or close isn't going to spend anything. FAR better to release a new uber character (looking at you Frankie) and get EVERYONE spending to 550 them.

KGB

Most of the top players have 3-5 550s, with the rest of their 5* roster in the 450 range. If they make someone like Black Widow into a "meta" character, almost everyone would be building her from scratch.

JoeHandle

@KGB said:

@JoeHandle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@kuntilanak said:
I believe there's a $$-stinking reason why most old 5* are not being reworked...
Unless they are in PVE as opponents.

I dunno. I mean selling basically the same thing to us twice must be a retailers dream. If it was me I would be all over us! Maybe the Devs have more ethics!

Exactly this. Making an old 5* relevant/necessary/required for competitors would make them TONS of money. Imagine they buff Odin to be the new "meta" guy -- the entire high level player base now has to figure out how to 550 him, and most of them have him at like 450 now!

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. In theory, forcing people to chase the historically least chased characters would definitely force some movement.

Except wasn't Odin released during the period of time where every new character was getting 550'd? I suspect there are secretly a decent number of high level versions out there.

Not a joke!

It's actually not even that farfetched. Look what happened with Juggernaut -- how fast did the entire game get him to 550?

hmmm .... not sure, as I'm still working on that. Sorry for holding up the show

Targeted buffing of underused SKUs as meand of stimulating revenue ... seems to me this suggest getting revenue from newer spenders ... assumes there are newer spenders ... and from smaller spenders who wouldn't have gone nutballs on principal over a new character that underwhelmed.

That would be a really poor way of generating revenue. The obvious reason is anyone who has the buffed character at 550 or close isn't going to spend anything. FAR better to release a new uber character (looking at you Frankie) and get EVERYONE spending to 550 them.

KGB

No kidding, and the point of my comment on bucket's "plan." The old spenders won't shell out for a revamped old character, they won't have to, they either already did or topped them out over time. Generating any revenue from an older character, would require targeting offers at smaller spenders / compelling non-spenders into spending. Which takes loosening them up by degrees. Just running the usual routines wouldn't suddenly start working differently / producing different results.

As for "get EVERYONE spending to 550 them" ... challenge for the game is that too many players that are positioned to 550 anything don't have to spend to 550 new releases within a couple/few months of release. They only need to spend if they want to get to 550 more or less immediately. That gets expenseive. If the choice was between 550 in a week or three and 550 in a year or two, some would shell out. If the choice is between 550 in a week or three and 550 in a month or two ... why spend?