Daily Play Token Bug & Exploit Farming

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  • Godzillafan67
    Godzillafan67 Posts: 698 Critical Contributor

    Maybe the analogy is that this is like being forced to take free food samples at the market. Some people are unintentionally getting multiple bites because they have to keep circling back to get their items. Other folks are intentionally circling back over and over and over again to get a lot of free food. The devs wish to pump the stomachs of all those who thought there was something as a free lunch.

  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 716 Critical Contributor

    @kuntilanak said:
    I only ever close and reopen the app to avoid the iso tax in PVP, and occasionally rage quit due to stupid AI cascade (which happens more often with the new engine. YMMV). I believe a large number of players behave like this (pure speculation on my part). If dev considers this behavior as egregious... then so be it... :|

    Iso tax evasion exploit aside, you probably have nothing to worry about.

  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 716 Critical Contributor
    edited 11 July 2025, 04:08

    @Zarqa said:

    @Blackstone said:
    Ok... Now today I'm aware over noticed how it happens...

    This thread is going insane though.

    Anyone sitting around repeating the "exploit"... How much free time do you have in a day?

    I can see both perspectives. If there's a loophole found to get extra freebies, people will try to take advantage of it. It's the same logic that ruined capitalism. What was once "provide a quality product for a fair price to be successful" became "do whatever you can get away with without explicitly breaking the law to get rich". Same thing here.

    On the other side, you have a company seeing product being taken for free, which equates to losing money.... But they caused the issue to begin with.

    Neither of those perspectives really puts either side in a clearly good or bad light... It just is what it is.

    The reality though is that the devs have every right to roll back accounts for those that take advantage of this issue. Some may not like it, other may choose to quit over it, but that doesn't change the facts of the situation.

    The whole thing is unfortunate. I'm assuming those most upset about it were already using the "exploit" before this warning came and are issuing emotionally charged justifications so they can avoid consequences.

    And those arguing that it's completely within their rights to continue the "exploit" until it gets fixed... That's easy to say when it's not affecting your bottom line negatively.

    Yes, things could be handled better, but this sort of rage seems uncalled for.

    I won't be using the "exploit" myself... But then again I'm a guy that always returns shopping carts no matter what just because it's the right thing to do.

    By all means, others are welcome to disagree with me and have a different opinion. I would suggest everyone check their emotions before expressing those opinions though, to keep things civil.

    Even if your emotions are justified, there's plenty of time to think through a mature response and the moderators here don't deserve to be caught in the middle.

    Again, just my opinion.

    Fair and balanced post. And I don’t disagree with you. But look at it from my perspective:

    I was in the beta. I can’t disclose the exact details I want to share due to the NDA, but I (hopefully) can share that this was mentioned early on in the beta channel. After that moment, it was mentioned frequently, sometimes daily. No dev comments about exploits.

    Steam goes live. Now this bug is mentioned more broadly and discussed across most (all?) platforms. Again, no dev comments about this.

    iOS goes live. Bug is still there. So, I figured that the devs know about it, there have been dozens of posts about it being ‘compensation’ for a buggy rollout. And they launched it without a fix or a warning. So now it’s my turn. I spend some time collecting tokens. Yes, I intentionally restarted the game for it. No, I did not do this 100s or even 1000s of times as some have admitted. But it was intentional.

    Then this morning an insane new vault goes live while the same bug still exists. Sweet! The devs are aware, they decided to launch it. Let’s get some more tokens. Again, never a mention from them this is frowned upon. No matter how many mentions and jokes.

    And after all of this there’s a post that this might cause roll backs. But vague enough to not know if this affects me or not. That’s bad.

    I’ve heard about this issue for weeks by now. I’ve seen so many ‘just compensation’ jokes about it too. And warnings from players as well. All this time, not a peep from the devs. But now I might be flagged? That just feels wrong and incredibly frustrating.

    While your frustration is understandable, you still acted on assumptions and, according to you, a feeling of deserving the compensation.

    Other players joking about the devs knowing etc is neither confirmation nor justification...

    It served as justification at the time because you benefited from it.

    It serves as justification now because you don't want any consequences.

    Everything you described sounds like very human behavior because people naturally justify such things.

    If I leave my wallet out somewhere, does that give you the right to take it? Maybe other people tell you I must know it's there so you should take whatever money you want from it.

    I realize that's a bit more personal, but it's the same concept.

    I will admit that I find it much more understandable for those that used the exploit before any notice to not use it was given.

    I'll say that clearly: I totally understand the reasoning likely applied to use the exploit prior to any notice being given to not use the exploit...

    I'm not saying it makes you a bad person.. You saw an opportunity, justified it, and took advantage.

    With that said though... That doesn't mean they can't take thoses things back from you. It also doesn't mean they shouldn't.

    The people on each side of that issue will find different outcomes unfair. And you have every right to your feelings on the issue.

    If it's me, I just accept I took a chance and it may not pay off. No big deal.

    When I was 14, I mouthed off to a 27 year old man ... I never saw the punch coming. I woke up on the ground. It was totally unfair... But it was also very much deserved. I learned from that mistake...I hope it makes sense how that story relates here.

    Anyway... Still just my opinion.

  • Painmonger
    Painmonger Posts: 179 Tile Toppler

    @KGB said:
    I think players are WAY over thinking this announcement either due to frustration with the Unity launch or because they are earning a few extra tokens and are worried about a roll back.

    Using the bank analogy, I'd say what's happening here is the equivalent of the ATM giving out an extra $20 every time you make a withdrawal. The bank announces they know its happening and warn you not to exploit this. If you regularly make say 5 withdrawals a day (business reasons) and continue to make your 5 withdrawals I'd expect this is a 'business as usual' case and even though you are getting an extra 100 bucks the bank isn't going to punish you. But if you suddenly start making 10 or 20 or more withdrawals a day then the bank is going to ask you to explain why and if you don't have a legit reason, you will be punished.

    This is the bank analogy I picture, except one key distinction. The bank tries to update an ATM at one branch & discovers this behavior. The bank knows about it, they know customers know about it, and customers know the bank is aware. Rather than fixing it, the bank continues to update the rest of their ATMs. Once every single ATM has been updated do they threaten all of their customers that by some vague determination they might not only take back the extra funds they knowingly gave out, but may seize all of your assets in the account as well.

    Let's not forget that the code is the sole arbiter of your eligibility for getting rewards. There's no check box the player can access to see if they used a particular character during the right window of time & request a token. At least with the bank analogy you can go into the branch & give them the money back, but should we be opening a CS ticket every time we get an extra token?

    I also feel like the few people likely to really push the limits of this are probably already sitting on stockpiles of resources & this barely moves the needle for them. Their gains relative to mine in regular game play aren't that great & will have zero impact on my experience.

    They pushed out a known & well document buggy update. I am hopeful for the future utility this gives them & what it could mean for the longevity of the game if they can smooth this over. To follow up this botched rollout with a blanket statement that incites panic for something you messed up & a small number of players is truly intentionally taking advantage of is just not a good way to handle it.

    Re: EB & fraud

    I agree with where you're coming from, but there are a few things I thought worth mentioning. In any of the fraud situations brought up in this thread you'd have to go to court first & prove the actions were fraudulent first. Generally speaking if any of the terms are unclear or unenforced the decision goes toward the party that did not draw up the terms.

    If they are found guilty they usually just have to pay back the balance, no jail involved. I've run hundreds of background checks in my career & seen most shoplifting convictions have fines lower than the value of the outright stolen goods. In this case, how do we determine how many rewards were obtained fraudulently vs earnestly, especially since the players don't have access to those records to dispute it? There's more ambiguity that leans toward the consumer.

    Lastly you mentioned the bank putting $1M into your account by mistake. You'd only be facing jail time if you couldn't pay it back, and the bank would have to notify you & make the correction in a timely manner. It may have changed a little over the years, but it used to be a statue of 90 days before those funds legally became yours. You would also still have access to records telling you how much of your balance was legitimately yours to spend.

    The common thread for those cases would be to return the tokens that were received in error, and I do believe that is 100% fair. The problem being, the vast majority of us have no idea how many we got by mistake/abuse vs regular play. There are a lot of players that keep strict records of that & I used to be one of them, but these days I don't care enough to remember who gives tokens to which vault or how many I got today.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,509 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 11 July 2025, 05:39

    They should push an emergency build and shut off all daily tokens until the issue is resolved.
    Then issue a token of each type for each day that tokens were turned off.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,324 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThisisClemFandango said:
    @entrailbucket said:

    @peanut_gallery said:

    @Scofie said:
    I'm just going to throw in an analogy here which people can choose to take or leave.

    If I'm walking past my bank, and my bank has been sending me weird letters and freezing my cards every so often, do I have the right to walk in to the branch and lift £1000 out of an open drawer because they left it open? Would people think it was reasonable for the inconvenience?

    I'm with @entrailbucket on this - that digital good might effectively be free (as there is no direct cost to the devs), but it ripples throughout the game economy and makes some people "richer" through what is basically cheating.

    If we are being honest about the analogy, it this:

    The bank offers anyone who stands in line and comes into the bank $100 each day, just for showing up and standing in line.

    However, the bank put in new clerks who don’t enforce the once-a-day policy, so anyone who leaves the bank and stands in line again will get another $100 the same day, as many times as want to stand in line.

    The people who run the bank had foreknowledge the new clerks were inept but did absolutely nothing to properly train them, and employed them anyway, knowing the clerks wouldn’t enforce the once-a-day rule.

    Rather than remove the clerks who are giving away the extra money they shouldn’t, they are opting to freeze the accounts of the patrons of the bank who came in more than once a day.

    You would go to jail for fraud, and the clerks likely would too.

    This is not complicated or ambiguous at all.

    That's because you have an unshakeable point of view.
    You are sitting at the top of the tower looking down.

    If this is all so legit howcome nobody ever mentioned they were able to play the nodes way more than once per day? We got told the nodes could be played daily but not that this meant you could play them multiple times. Also - people are saying that these extra LTs just fell into their pocket but that isn't quite true is it? What actually is happening is that they are choosing to replay again and again The important word here is choosing. All I can say is that the players (lots of them it seems) who are choosing to cheat remember this next time they have something to whine about (they won't). Personally I am not going to steal from the Devs but that is me, I think this topic is a wash now as it is obvious the player base thinks this looting under cover of protest is fine. Hopefully the game just gets better.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,324 Chairperson of the Boards

    It also now occurs to me that this explains why the Steam compensation was so low!

    As for all this talk of banks, what is really happening to those choosing to do this again and again is “The window to the Sony store is broken, I can’t help it if I take a TV and come back for a PS5 and tell my friends to do the same!”

  • Daniel2121
    Daniel2121 Posts: 280 Mover and Shaker
    edited 11 July 2025, 06:32

    @entrailbucket said:

    @ThisisClemFandango said:
    @entrailbucket said:

    @peanut_gallery said:

    @Scofie said:
    I'm just going to throw in an analogy here which people can choose to take or leave.

    If I'm walking past my bank, and my bank has been sending me weird letters and freezing my cards every so often, do I have the right to walk in to the branch and lift £1000 out of an open drawer because they left it open? Would people think it was reasonable for the inconvenience?

    I'm with @entrailbucket on this - that digital good might effectively be free (as there is no direct cost to the devs), but it ripples throughout the game economy and makes some people "richer" through what is basically cheating.

    If we are being honest about the analogy, it this:

    The bank offers anyone who stands in line and comes into the bank $100 each day, just for showing up and standing in line.

    However, the bank put in new clerks who don’t enforce the once-a-day policy, so anyone who leaves the bank and stands in line again will get another $100 the same day, as many times as want to stand in line.

    The people who run the bank had foreknowledge the new clerks were inept but did absolutely nothing to properly train them, and employed them anyway, knowing the clerks wouldn’t enforce the once-a-day rule.

    Rather than remove the clerks who are giving away the extra money they shouldn’t, they are opting to freeze the accounts of the patrons of the bank who came in more than once a day.

    You would go to jail for fraud, and the clerks likely would too.

    This is not complicated or ambiguous at all.

    That's because you have an unshakeable point of view.
    You are sitting at the top of the tower looking down.

    This has nothing to do with what I think. I don't care about the banks' money, and honestly ripping off a bank is probably a moral good in our current economic situation anyway.

    You'd still go to jail, because legally you're committing fraud, and it wouldn't be a novel or controversial case at all.

    Honestly if I've learned anything from this thread it's that most of you shouldn't be allowed to visit banks.

    Most if not all banks won't be doing anything like "sending their employers to stuff every one of your pockets with their money just for being there, then threaten you with a sue into prison for "robbing their money"".

    I feel like I'm done with this **** show. I'm seriously thinking of uninstalling and quitting for good. It runs in an awful state and now I'm being threatened with a rollback just because it's so buggy it gives me tokens I didn't want. None of this is my fault.

  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker

    @DAZ0273 said:
    It also now occurs to me that this explains why the Steam compensation was so low!

    As for all this talk of banks, what is really happening to those choosing to do this again and again is “The window to the Sony store is broken, I can’t help it if I take a TV and come back for a PS5 and tell my friends to do the same!”

    Also ppl need to add to their bank analogy and in this example, Sony said you can take one, maybe two, maybe three but don't take egregious amounts. What does egregious even mean? Is 5 okay? Is 10?

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,324 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 11 July 2025, 11:27

    @Codex said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    It also now occurs to me that this explains why the Steam compensation was so low!

    As for all this talk of banks, what is really happening to those choosing to do this again and again is “The window to the Sony store is broken, I can’t help it if I take a TV and come back for a PS5 and tell my friends to do the same!”

    Also ppl need to add to their bank analogy and in this example, Sony said you can take one, maybe two, maybe three but don't take egregious amounts. What does egregious even mean? Is 5 okay? Is 10?

    Sony seem and I can only say seem to have said one visit per day for 1 or 2 as would normally be available on a more limited basis items until window is fixed. There is clearly a difference between fair use and repeat looting. Just because you got thrown out of the game doesn’t mean you had to go back for more looting. And then again. 5 times? Looting. I don’t even know what else is going on.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,324 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daniel2121 said:

    @KGB said:
    I think players are WAY over thinking this announcement either due to frustration with the Unity launch or because they are earning a few extra tokens and are worried about a roll back.

    Using the bank analogy, I'd say what's happening here is the equivalent of the ATM giving out an extra $20 every time you make a withdrawal. The bank announces they know its happening and warn you not to exploit this. If you regularly make say 5 withdrawals a day (business reasons) and continue to make your 5 withdrawals I'd expect this is a 'business as usual' case and even though you are getting an extra 100 bucks the bank isn't going to punish you. But if you suddenly start making 10 or 20 or more withdrawals a day then the bank is going to ask you to explain why and if you don't have a legit reason, you will be punished.

    So in MPQ terms, if you play DDQ + PvE (say 4 clears a day on 10 nodes) for an average of 50 matches a day and you continue to do that same play pattern you'll be fine even if you earn an extra 10 or 20 tokens a day. But if you suddenly have a new play pattern where you are doubling, tripling or more your matches, esp farming the trivial nodes in PvE and earning extra tokens after every battle then yeah, they are going to rightly roll you back (you might get a chance to explain this unusual play pattern).

    It will be very easy for them to check your play pattern (average matches a day) and note anything unusual long before they start checking to see if you are force closing the app.

    In other words play as you normally do and you'll be fine.

    KGB

    You're wrong. "Normal play rate" doesn't even apply anymore thanks to the new buggy engine crashing or bugging things every so often.

    But instead of acknowledging THEIR fault, somehow the fault is all on us. Devs blaming the players for THEIR bug. Great attitude there. Real smooth.

    I for one have just uninstalled. The game runs horrible for me right now but the dev's attitude here is even worse than the engine to me.
    I refuse to stay and keep having a part on this charade. Farewell, my fellows. It was a long and good ride but this is it for me.
    Good luck to y'all who stay in this - looks like you'll be needing it.

    The fault is only on you if you have acted in a way a reasonable person would consider to be wrong or beyond a fair use. If you want justice from a Court of law for a civil loss or dispute there is a saying in English law “He who comes to Equity comes with clean hands”.

  • Philbert101
    Philbert101 Posts: 17 Just Dropped In

    The game is forcing the extra rewards on me while playing a PVP that has a required character that is a fan favorite. . I have looked all over for a “refusal” button every time I get a fan favorite token that I shouldn’t have gotten. Maybe it’s next to the ridiculous delete account button and I don’t see it?
    Should I save all of them up and wait for someone to come take them?

  • Scofie
    Scofie GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,619 Chairperson of the Boards

    I just went and read the initial post and I hope everyone else does too after a sleep.

    I didn't see anything threatening in there. I thought it was polite. And the word "egregious" which seems to be causing consternation by itself, was further clarified by the use of the word "farming" directly after it. It even says that some extra rewards will be incidental as a result of normal play and, that is ok.

    And look, if you did farm tokens before and it was not warned against, I personally don't think you should get rolled back if you stop after the warning.

    If you play the game as you always have (noting that bugs are causing the game to restart more than usual) then you're almost definitely OK.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,324 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 11 July 2025, 08:17

    @Philbert101 said:
    The game is forcing the extra rewards on me while playing a PVP that has a required character that is a fan favorite. . I have looked all over for a “refusal” button every time I get a fan favorite token that I shouldn’t have gotten. Maybe it’s next to the ridiculous delete account button and I don’t see it?
    Should I save all of them up and wait for someone to come take them?

    Again, you are clearly not the target of this. There are players, no doubt forearmed with knowledge that are repeatedly farming DDQ every day (and other token sources it seems) for hundreds + tokens. @Entrailbucket has confirmed he has sources acknowledging this. These players are looting an exploit beyond reasonable fair use. If that is not you, you should not have anything to worry about.

  • Philbert101
    Philbert101 Posts: 17 Just Dropped In

    Thanks for following all my comments. Especially the ones asking for advice and or help solving my cross platform issues with my devices that you probably also saw since you are following the forums so closely. (Sarcasm again).
    I will also be putting up a definition on sarcasm that you obviously don’t need since I’ve read some of your hilarious stories that you come up with.
    But seriously, thanks for responding.

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