Daily Play Token Bug & Exploit Farming

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  • scottee
    scottee Posts: 1,625 Chairperson of the Boards

    @bluewolf said:
    If someone could please direct me to the banks with the free cheeseburgers and with $100 giveaways, I think I could have a very pleasant day tomorrow.

    I would be happy with one of each, to be clear.

    Lots of banks give bonuses between $100-$400 for opening an account. Often you have to use direct deposit, and then keep the account for 3 months. But then you can close it, move your money to another bank and do it all over again. And if a bank's terms and conditions say you're a "new" customer if you've been gone for 6-12 months, then it's fair game to open a new account.

    Credit card companies do these promotions too. People call it "churning credit cards/bank accounts" because you can just keep rotating through and getting more bonuses. Completely according to the terms & conditions.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,981 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for tokens today

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,841 Chairperson of the Boards

    @scottee said:

    @bluewolf said:
    If someone could please direct me to the banks with the free cheeseburgers and with $100 giveaways, I think I could have a very pleasant day tomorrow.

    I would be happy with one of each, to be clear.

    Lots of banks give bonuses between $100-$400 for opening an account. Often you have to use direct deposit, and then keep the account for 3 months. But then you can close it, move your money to another bank and do it all over again. And if a bank's terms and conditions say you're a "new" customer if you've been gone for 6-12 months, then it's fair game to open a new account.

    Credit card companies do these promotions too. People call it "churning credit cards/bank accounts" because you can just keep rotating through and getting more bonuses. Completely according to the terms & conditions.

    Do they let you do it 500 times a day?

  • Hellblazer666
    Hellblazer666 Posts: 267 Mover and Shaker

    Maybe you should be focusing on the clusterfuck of a release you did with Unity but that’s just me

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 729 Critical Contributor

    @Borstock said:
    I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for tokens today

    wimpy... Wimpy... Wimpy.. WIMPY. WIMPY! WIMPY!

  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14 Just Dropped In

    I've already got over 20 tokens just playing between PvE and PvP. It's 2:49 pm my time. I got quite a few hours until I sleep. I imagine I would average close to a vault per day without even trying to exploit the situation.

    Am I to get rolled back for playing what I normally do. I farmed regularly in PvP before by playing a match or two and then taking a small break. I play while watching tv.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,654 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think players are WAY over thinking this announcement either due to frustration with the Unity launch or because they are earning a few extra tokens and are worried about a roll back.

    Using the bank analogy, I'd say what's happening here is the equivalent of the ATM giving out an extra $20 every time you make a withdrawal. The bank announces they know its happening and warn you not to exploit this. If you regularly make say 5 withdrawals a day (business reasons) and continue to make your 5 withdrawals I'd expect this is a 'business as usual' case and even though you are getting an extra 100 bucks the bank isn't going to punish you. But if you suddenly start making 10 or 20 or more withdrawals a day then the bank is going to ask you to explain why and if you don't have a legit reason, you will be punished.

    So in MPQ terms, if you play DDQ + PvE (say 4 clears a day on 10 nodes) for an average of 50 matches a day and you continue to do that same play pattern you'll be fine even if you earn an extra 10 or 20 tokens a day. But if you suddenly have a new play pattern where you are doubling, tripling or more your matches, esp farming the trivial nodes in PvE and earning extra tokens after every battle then yeah, they are going to rightly roll you back (you might get a chance to explain this unusual play pattern).

    It will be very easy for them to check your play pattern (average matches a day) and note anything unusual long before they start checking to see if you are force closing the app.

    In other words play as you normally do and you'll be fine.

    KGB

  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,316 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 11 July 2025, 01:19

    @entrailbucket said:

    @peanut_gallery said:

    @Scofie said:
    I'm just going to throw in an analogy here which people can choose to take or leave.

    If I'm walking past my bank, and my bank has been sending me weird letters and freezing my cards every so often, do I have the right to walk in to the branch and lift £1000 out of an open drawer because they left it open? Would people think it was reasonable for the inconvenience?

    I'm with @entrailbucket on this - that digital good might effectively be free (as there is no direct cost to the devs), but it ripples throughout the game economy and makes some people "richer" through what is basically cheating.

    If we are being honest about the analogy, it this:

    The bank offers anyone who stands in line and comes into the bank $100 each day, just for showing up and standing in line.

    However, the bank put in new clerks who don’t enforce the once-a-day policy, so anyone who leaves the bank and stands in line again will get another $100 the same day, as many times as want to stand in line.

    The people who run the bank had foreknowledge the new clerks were inept but did absolutely nothing to properly train them, and employed them anyway, knowing the clerks wouldn’t enforce the once-a-day rule.

    Rather than remove the clerks who are giving away the extra money they shouldn’t, they are opting to freeze the accounts of the patrons of the bank who came in more than once a day.

    You would go to jail for fraud, and the clerks likely would too.

    This is not complicated or ambiguous at all.

    No you wouldn't because in a court of law the bank would have been proven to have known about the issue and chose not to fix it for an extended time. The bank set a precedent by knowingly not enforcing their rule so thereby giving a precedent of permission.

    This happened a short time ago in real life with the bank/atm check cashing issue. That was fraud because the banks fixed the issue as soon as they discovered it. If the banks had known and waited 3 weeks, it would have been a different.

    Clearly the best choice would have been to suspend those tokens being awarded until the issue was fixed and then give everyone one token for each day they weren't awarded but instead the devs chose a worse option of not fixing it and then ambiguously threatening the player base. I mean the new engine should have more easily allowed them to do such things, that is why they installed it in the first place?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,841 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Warbringa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @peanut_gallery said:

    @Scofie said:
    I'm just going to throw in an analogy here which people can choose to take or leave.

    If I'm walking past my bank, and my bank has been sending me weird letters and freezing my cards every so often, do I have the right to walk in to the branch and lift £1000 out of an open drawer because they left it open? Would people think it was reasonable for the inconvenience?

    I'm with @entrailbucket on this - that digital good might effectively be free (as there is no direct cost to the devs), but it ripples throughout the game economy and makes some people "richer" through what is basically cheating.

    If we are being honest about the analogy, it this:

    The bank offers anyone who stands in line and comes into the bank $100 each day, just for showing up and standing in line.

    However, the bank put in new clerks who don’t enforce the once-a-day policy, so anyone who leaves the bank and stands in line again will get another $100 the same day, as many times as want to stand in line.

    The people who run the bank had foreknowledge the new clerks were inept but did absolutely nothing to properly train them, and employed them anyway, knowing the clerks wouldn’t enforce the once-a-day rule.

    Rather than remove the clerks who are giving away the extra money they shouldn’t, they are opting to freeze the accounts of the patrons of the bank who came in more than once a day.

    You would go to jail for fraud, and the clerks likely would too.

    This is not complicated or ambiguous at all.

    No you wouldn't because in a court of law the bank would have been proven to have known about the issue and chose not to fix it for an extended time. The bank set a precedent by knowingly not enforcing their rule so thereby giving a precedent of permission.

    This happened a short time ago in real life with the bank/atm check cashing issue. That was fraud because the banks fixed the issue as soon as they discovered it. If the banks had known and waited 3 weeks, it would have been a different.

    I promise you it would not. If the bank is knowingly running an unpatched version of Windows, you are not allowed to hack their servers to steal money. If I leave my door unlocked and you steal my TV, that is still stealing.

  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,316 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 11 July 2025, 01:37

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Warbringa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @peanut_gallery said:

    @Scofie said:
    I'm just going to throw in an analogy here which people can choose to take or leave.

    If I'm walking past my bank, and my bank has been sending me weird letters and freezing my cards every so often, do I have the right to walk in to the branch and lift £1000 out of an open drawer because they left it open? Would people think it was reasonable for the inconvenience?

    I'm with @entrailbucket on this - that digital good might effectively be free (as there is no direct cost to the devs), but it ripples throughout the game economy and makes some people "richer" through what is basically cheating.

    If we are being honest about the analogy, it this:

    The bank offers anyone who stands in line and comes into the bank $100 each day, just for showing up and standing in line.

    However, the bank put in new clerks who don’t enforce the once-a-day policy, so anyone who leaves the bank and stands in line again will get another $100 the same day, as many times as want to stand in line.

    The people who run the bank had foreknowledge the new clerks were inept but did absolutely nothing to properly train them, and employed them anyway, knowing the clerks wouldn’t enforce the once-a-day rule.

    Rather than remove the clerks who are giving away the extra money they shouldn’t, they are opting to freeze the accounts of the patrons of the bank who came in more than once a day.

    You would go to jail for fraud, and the clerks likely would too.

    This is not complicated or ambiguous at all.

    No you wouldn't because in a court of law the bank would have been proven to have known about the issue and chose not to fix it for an extended time. The bank set a precedent by knowingly not enforcing their rule so thereby giving a precedent of permission.

    This happened a short time ago in real life with the bank/atm check cashing issue. That was fraud because the banks fixed the issue as soon as they discovered it. If the banks had known and waited 3 weeks, it would have been a different.

    I promise you it would not. If the bank is knowingly running an unpatched version of Windows, you are not allowed to hack their servers to steal money. If I leave my door unlocked and you steal my TV, that is still stealing.

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Warbringa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @peanut_gallery said:

    @Scofie said:
    I'm just going to throw in an analogy here which people can choose to take or leave.

    If I'm walking past my bank, and my bank has been sending me weird letters and freezing my cards every so often, do I have the right to walk in to the branch and lift £1000 out of an open drawer because they left it open? Would people think it was reasonable for the inconvenience?

    I'm with @entrailbucket on this - that digital good might effectively be free (as there is no direct cost to the devs), but it ripples throughout the game economy and makes some people "richer" through what is basically cheating.

    If we are being honest about the analogy, it this:

    The bank offers anyone who stands in line and comes into the bank $100 each day, just for showing up and standing in line.

    However, the bank put in new clerks who don’t enforce the once-a-day policy, so anyone who leaves the bank and stands in line again will get another $100 the same day, as many times as want to stand in line.

    The people who run the bank had foreknowledge the new clerks were inept but did absolutely nothing to properly train them, and employed them anyway, knowing the clerks wouldn’t enforce the once-a-day rule.

    Rather than remove the clerks who are giving away the extra money they shouldn’t, they are opting to freeze the accounts of the patrons of the bank who came in more than once a day.

    You would go to jail for fraud, and the clerks likely would too.

    This is not complicated or ambiguous at all.

    No you wouldn't because in a court of law the bank would have been proven to have known about the issue and chose not to fix it for an extended time. The bank set a precedent by knowingly not enforcing their rule so thereby giving a precedent of permission.

    This happened a short time ago in real life with the bank/atm check cashing issue. That was fraud because the banks fixed the issue as soon as they discovered it. If the banks had known and waited 3 weeks, it would have been a different.

    I promise you it would not. If the bank is knowingly running an unpatched version of Windows, you are not allowed to hack their servers to steal money. If I leave my door unlocked and you steal my TV, that is still stealing.

    Stealing or hacking is clearly criminal agreed. Standing in line for $ or re-opening your game for tokens is is not, therefore precedent is a legally important consideration. My comparison was on the second analogy of standing in-line for $. Clearly taking money from an open register or hacking someone is illegal, I know I didn't specify which analogy I was commenting on.

    If I throw cash all over my lawn and then it is gone the next day, have I been stolen from....yes. Will anyone care....no, in fact any reasonable person's response would be I deserved it.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,841 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Warbringa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Warbringa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @peanut_gallery said:

    @Scofie said:
    I'm just going to throw in an analogy here which people can choose to take or leave.

    If I'm walking past my bank, and my bank has been sending me weird letters and freezing my cards every so often, do I have the right to walk in to the branch and lift £1000 out of an open drawer because they left it open? Would people think it was reasonable for the inconvenience?

    I'm with @entrailbucket on this - that digital good might effectively be free (as there is no direct cost to the devs), but it ripples throughout the game economy and makes some people "richer" through what is basically cheating.

    If we are being honest about the analogy, it this:

    The bank offers anyone who stands in line and comes into the bank $100 each day, just for showing up and standing in line.

    However, the bank put in new clerks who don’t enforce the once-a-day policy, so anyone who leaves the bank and stands in line again will get another $100 the same day, as many times as want to stand in line.

    The people who run the bank had foreknowledge the new clerks were inept but did absolutely nothing to properly train them, and employed them anyway, knowing the clerks wouldn’t enforce the once-a-day rule.

    Rather than remove the clerks who are giving away the extra money they shouldn’t, they are opting to freeze the accounts of the patrons of the bank who came in more than once a day.

    You would go to jail for fraud, and the clerks likely would too.

    This is not complicated or ambiguous at all.

    No you wouldn't because in a court of law the bank would have been proven to have known about the issue and chose not to fix it for an extended time. The bank set a precedent by knowingly not enforcing their rule so thereby giving a precedent of permission.

    This happened a short time ago in real life with the bank/atm check cashing issue. That was fraud because the banks fixed the issue as soon as they discovered it. If the banks had known and waited 3 weeks, it would have been a different.

    I promise you it would not. If the bank is knowingly running an unpatched version of Windows, you are not allowed to hack their servers to steal money. If I leave my door unlocked and you steal my TV, that is still stealing.

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Warbringa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @peanut_gallery said:

    @Scofie said:
    I'm just going to throw in an analogy here which people can choose to take or leave.

    If I'm walking past my bank, and my bank has been sending me weird letters and freezing my cards every so often, do I have the right to walk in to the branch and lift £1000 out of an open drawer because they left it open? Would people think it was reasonable for the inconvenience?

    I'm with @entrailbucket on this - that digital good might effectively be free (as there is no direct cost to the devs), but it ripples throughout the game economy and makes some people "richer" through what is basically cheating.

    If we are being honest about the analogy, it this:

    The bank offers anyone who stands in line and comes into the bank $100 each day, just for showing up and standing in line.

    However, the bank put in new clerks who don’t enforce the once-a-day policy, so anyone who leaves the bank and stands in line again will get another $100 the same day, as many times as want to stand in line.

    The people who run the bank had foreknowledge the new clerks were inept but did absolutely nothing to properly train them, and employed them anyway, knowing the clerks wouldn’t enforce the once-a-day rule.

    Rather than remove the clerks who are giving away the extra money they shouldn’t, they are opting to freeze the accounts of the patrons of the bank who came in more than once a day.

    You would go to jail for fraud, and the clerks likely would too.

    This is not complicated or ambiguous at all.

    No you wouldn't because in a court of law the bank would have been proven to have known about the issue and chose not to fix it for an extended time. The bank set a precedent by knowingly not enforcing their rule so thereby giving a precedent of permission.

    This happened a short time ago in real life with the bank/atm check cashing issue. That was fraud because the banks fixed the issue as soon as they discovered it. If the banks had known and waited 3 weeks, it would have been a different.

    I promise you it would not. If the bank is knowingly running an unpatched version of Windows, you are not allowed to hack their servers to steal money. If I leave my door unlocked and you steal my TV, that is still stealing.

    Stealing or hacking is clearly criminal agreed. Standing in line for $ or re-opening your game for tokens is is not, therefore precedent is a legally important consideration. My comparison was on the second analogy of standing in-line for $. Clearly taking money from an open register or hacking someone is illegal, I know I didn't specify which analogy I was commenting on.

    If I throw cash all over my lawn and then it is gone the next day, have I been stolen from....yes. Will anyone care....no, in fact any reasonable person's response would be I deserved it.

    I think we're about 12 analogies deep at this point and I'm pretty confused too.

    It would be really, really nice if @S0kun could pop back in and give us all some idea of what he meant by "egregious!"

  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 716 Critical Contributor

    Ok... Now today I'm aware over noticed how it happens...

    This thread is going insane though.

    Anyone sitting around repeating the "exploit"... How much free time do you have in a day?

    I can see both perspectives. If there's a loophole found to get extra freebies, people will try to take advantage of it. It's the same logic that ruined capitalism. What was once "provide a quality product for a fair price to be successful" became "do whatever you can get away with without explicitly breaking the law to get rich". Same thing here.

    On the other side, you have a company seeing product being taken for free, which equates to losing money.... But they caused the issue to begin with.

    Neither of those perspectives really puts either side in a clearly good or bad light... It just is what it is.

    The reality though is that the devs have every right to roll back accounts for those that take advantage of this issue. Some may not like it, other may choose to quit over it, but that doesn't change the facts of the situation.

    The whole thing is unfortunate. I'm assuming those most upset about it were already using the "exploit" before this warning came and are issuing emotionally charged justifications so they can avoid consequences.

    And those arguing that it's completely within their rights to continue the "exploit" until it gets fixed... That's easy to say when it's not affecting your bottom line negatively.

    Yes, things could be handled better, but this sort of rage seems uncalled for.

    I won't be using the "exploit" myself... But then again I'm a guy that always returns shopping carts no matter what just because it's the right thing to do.

    By all means, others are welcome to disagree with me and have a different opinion. I would suggest everyone check their emotions before expressing those opinions though, to keep things civil.

    Even if your emotions are justified, there's plenty of time to think through a mature response and the moderators here don't deserve to be caught in the middle.

    Again, just my opinion.

  • kuntilanak
    kuntilanak Posts: 157 Tile Toppler

    I only ever close and reopen the app to avoid the iso tax in PVP, and occasionally rage quit due to stupid AI cascade (which happens more often with the new engine. YMMV). I believe a large number of players behave like this (pure speculation on my part). If dev considers this behavior as egregious... then so be it... :|

  • Scorpion201
    Scorpion201 Posts: 76 Match Maker

    Who in the right mind release the new game engine in unusable State to the public users, too laggy and crashes too much. Not acceptable release.. 👎

  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 716 Critical Contributor

    @Blazpheme said:
    I've seen a lot of you use the bank analogy, but I see it more like a busted water pipe.

    Like I'm just sitting in my living room, playing a game, when suddenly a pipe bursts in the wall, spraying all over myself and my belongings. When I report the incident to my utility company, they inform me that they've just implemented some new higher-pressure, fancy-pants, turbo-whizzmo delivery system they've been working on for several months.

    The conversation on my end would probably go something like this:

    Really?
    I received no notification about this from your company.
    No, nothing came in the mail.
    No, no message on my answering machine.
    No, I didn't see anything on TV or in the newspaper about it.
    Oh, you say there was a flyer posted on the community corkboard down at the library.
    Yeah, I don't rely on that for important news. I would think that the utility company would communicate with me directly themselves, like an in-game announcement or something.

    Okay. Whatever, what are going to do about all this water?
    Yeah, it's spraying all over the room.
    I'm just sitting here trying to play a game, and the water keeps coming out.
    No, I'm not trying to collect the water on purpose, it's just soaking into the couch.
    Can't you guys just shut off the mains to my house?
    Oh, it's everybody's house. That sux.

    Soooooo let me get this straight. You want me to keep playing my game here, while I'm being soaked by water that I didn't ask for, and try not to absorb any of that water or you'll somehow take it back by wringing me out like a towel?
    Are you sure you guys can't just shut it off at your end?
    Temporarily while you fix the problem. I mean, I could live without the water for a little while.

    No?

    Okay, well, I "promise" I will try not to get too flipping wet over here while you guys get your sheets together and fix whatever is causing this.
    I mean, I'm not trying to get wet over here, it just keeps happening.
    You know, you guys could always shut the durn thing off over there, and I wouldn't be able to-

    No?

    Alrighty then...

    There's a key component you're missing from your analogy.

    That being the water company being able to tell who is getting extra water due to the busted pipe... And who has attached a water pump to take as much water as they can get.

  • Read_Only
    Read_Only Posts: 6 Just Dropped In

    @scottee said:
    One thing I don't understand. The devs know about it. Why aren't they fixing it? Just hot patch it.

    Posting on social media "don't do this" doesn't help at all. I'd guess 80-90% of the playerbase doesn't check here for a vague mod warning. There's no in game announcement.

    Just fix the bug.

    Chat gpt hasn’t told them how.

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