Echoes of Eternity, and PM2 infinite loops

Janosik
Janosik Posts: 698 Critical Contributor
edited July 2024 in MtGPQ General Discussion

Am I seeing this right?

You play a colorless spell, and this copies it, and puts mana in it?

Did nobody notice how this card might possibly go loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity

There are some very cheap colorless spells, you know

Comments

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 698 Critical Contributor

    Oh, ok, I see what's happened here. You've mirrored the design of the paper MTG card, which appears to copy all your colorless cards in the same way:

    The important difference is that in paper, a copied spell does not equal a copied card. Thus, if you have a paper Echoes of Eternity in play, and you play, say, a colorless Ghostfire spell, Ghostfire will cast twice, and that's all you get; whereas in MTGPQ, if you have Echoes of Eternity in play, and you cast, say, a 3 cost colorless Spectrum Sentinel (with 3 improved gems in play), you'll get an infinite number of Spectrum Sentinels

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 698 Critical Contributor

    Oh, and this looks very troublesome, too:

    You've got to be very careful when you make a card that says "When X happens, do Y for free" just in case a card already exists that says "When Y happens, do X for free".

    We ran into that trouble a while back in MTGPQ with the infinite combo Danitha, Benalia's Hope + Blade of Shared Souls, which had to be nerfed (that one was really bad because you didn't even need to have the second card of the combo in your hand when you cast the first one to go off!).

    And lo and behold, we do have at least a couple of "When Y happens, do X for free" cards: Healer of the Pride, and the new Guide of Souls.

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 698 Critical Contributor
    edited July 2024

    @Janosik said:
    And lo and behold, we do have at least a couple of "When Y happens, do X for free" cards: Healer of the Pride, and the new Guide of Souls.

    My team informs me that Wispdrinker Vampire combos even harder with Ocelot Pride

    (thx Xibvert ^_^)

  • Xibvert
    Xibvert Posts: 155 Tile Toppler
    edited July 2024

    Life Insurance also does a similar combo with Ocelot Pride. Also Kambal, Profiteering Mayor and Ajani's Welcome.

  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,968 Chairperson of the Boards

    For the health of the game, I wouldn't mind seeing caps on either of these

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 698 Critical Contributor

    Eek... and apparently the alternate art version of Ocelot Pride only costs 1 mana?!

    This combo has been spotted out and about during this weekend's coalition event...

  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,260 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yeah, they should cap the copy or stop it from gaining mana.

  • gozmaster
    gozmaster Posts: 323 Mover and Shaker

    LOOP ALL THE THINGS!!!!

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 698 Critical Contributor

    @madwren said:
    Yeah, they should cap the copy or stop it from gaining mana.

    Cutting Echoes of Eternity's effect which gives the copied card mana still gives us problems with colorless cards that gain mana, like Sunken Citadel or Survivor's Encampment.

  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,260 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Janosik said:

    @madwren said:
    Yeah, they should cap the copy or stop it from gaining mana.

    Cutting Echoes of Eternity's effect which gives the copied card mana still gives us problems with colorless cards that gain mana, like Sunken Citadel or Survivor's Encampment.

    An excellent point, sir!

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 698 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2024

    @Janosik said:

    @Janosik said:
    And lo and behold, we do have at least a couple of "When Y happens, do X for free" cards: Healer of the Pride, and the new Guide of Souls.

    My team informs me that Wispdrinker Vampire combos even harder with Ocelot Pride

    (thx Xibvert ^_^)

    Wispdrinker Vampire definitely needs to be limited given the fact that it forms a combo with one of the node supports in the Race to Orazca event. Anything that creates a token (e.g. Ajani, Invigorate Leadership's passive planeswalker ability) will create an infinite loop.


  • soultwist
    soultwist Posts: 329 Mover and Shaker

    @Janosik said:

    @Janosik said:

    @Janosik said:
    And lo and behold, we do have at least a couple of "When Y happens, do X for free" cards: Healer of the Pride, and the new Guide of Souls.

    My team informs me that Wispdrinker Vampire combos even harder with Ocelot Pride

    (thx Xibvert ^_^)

    Wispdrinker Vampire definitely needs to be limited given the fact that it forms a combo with one of the node supports in the Race to Orazca event. Anything that creates a token (e.g. Ajani, Invigorate Leadership's passive planeswalker ability) will create an infinite loop.


    Did this get fixed? Asking with Race to Orazca on schedule

  • Machine
    Machine Posts: 891 Critical Contributor
    edited 12 February 2025, 08:33

    @Magic:PQ Support Team , please see above question. It's imperative that this is fixed before the event starts, or you should schedule a different event.

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 698 Critical Contributor

    It's a shame they didn't have, like, 4 months warning about this issue

  • soultwist
    soultwist Posts: 329 Mover and Shaker

    The list of PW's that should work: Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants; Ajani, Invigorate Leadership; Basri Ket; Commodore Guff; Daxos the Returned; Dovin, Grand Arbiter; Elspeth, Sun's Champion; Elspeth, Sun's Nemesis; Gideon of the Trials; Grand Master of Flowers; Gideon, Ally of Zendikar; Kaya, Geist Hunter; Kaya, Intangible Slayer; Kaya, Orzhov Usurper; Kaya, Spirits’ Justice; Kaya, the Inexorable; Nahiri, Heir of the Ancients; Sorin, Ravenous Neonate; Teferi Akosa of Zhalfir; The Wandering Emperor; Urza, Lord Protector

  • Magic:PQ Support Team
    Magic:PQ Support Team ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,522 Chairperson of the Boards

    @soultwist said:

    @Janosik said:

    @Janosik said:

    @Janosik said:
    And lo and behold, we do have at least a couple of "When Y happens, do X for free" cards: Healer of the Pride, and the new Guide of Souls.

    My team informs me that Wispdrinker Vampire combos even harder with Ocelot Pride

    (thx Xibvert ^_^)

    Wispdrinker Vampire definitely needs to be limited given the fact that it forms a combo with one of the node supports in the Race to Orazca event. Anything that creates a token (e.g. Ajani, Invigorate Leadership's passive planeswalker ability) will create an infinite loop.


    Did this get fixed? Asking with Race to Orazca on schedule

    The interaction wasn't altered, but we have replaced this week's coalition event, and we'll be putting this event on hold from rotation until we deploy a solution to this unintended loop interaction.

    @Machine, thanks for the tag :)

  • gozmaster
    gozmaster Posts: 323 Mover and Shaker

    @Magic:PQ Support Team , thanks for the response and adjustment gang.

  • Vorazg
    Vorazg Posts: 31 Just Dropped In

    You know what WOULD be great if it looped about 30x each month instead of a chinsy 21? Yep, daily rewards.

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