Echoes of Eternity, and PM2 infinite loops

Janosik
Janosik Posts: 618 Critical Contributor
edited 5 July 2024, 13:26 in MtGPQ General Discussion

Am I seeing this right?

You play a colorless spell, and this copies it, and puts mana in it?

Did nobody notice how this card might possibly go loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity loopity

There are some very cheap colorless spells, you know

Comments

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 618 Critical Contributor

    Oh, ok, I see what's happened here. You've mirrored the design of the paper MTG card, which appears to copy all your colorless cards in the same way:

    The important difference is that in paper, a copied spell does not equal a copied card. Thus, if you have a paper Echoes of Eternity in play, and you play, say, a colorless Ghostfire spell, Ghostfire will cast twice, and that's all you get; whereas in MTGPQ, if you have Echoes of Eternity in play, and you cast, say, a 3 cost colorless Spectrum Sentinel (with 3 improved gems in play), you'll get an infinite number of Spectrum Sentinels

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 618 Critical Contributor

    Oh, and this looks very troublesome, too:

    You've got to be very careful when you make a card that says "When X happens, do Y for free" just in case a card already exists that says "When Y happens, do X for free".

    We ran into that trouble a while back in MTGPQ with the infinite combo Danitha, Benalia's Hope + Blade of Shared Souls, which had to be nerfed (that one was really bad because you didn't even need to have the second card of the combo in your hand when you cast the first one to go off!).

    And lo and behold, we do have at least a couple of "When Y happens, do X for free" cards: Healer of the Pride, and the new Guide of Souls.

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 618 Critical Contributor
    edited 5 July 2024, 14:34

    @Janosik said:
    And lo and behold, we do have at least a couple of "When Y happens, do X for free" cards: Healer of the Pride, and the new Guide of Souls.

    My team informs me that Wispdrinker Vampire combos even harder with Ocelot Pride

    (thx Xibvert ^_^)

  • Xibvert
    Xibvert Posts: 113 Tile Toppler
    edited 6 July 2024, 03:56

    Life Insurance also does a similar combo with Ocelot Pride. Also Kambal, Profiteering Mayor and Ajani's Welcome.

  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,961 Chairperson of the Boards

    For the health of the game, I wouldn't mind seeing caps on either of these

  • Xibvert
    Xibvert Posts: 113 Tile Toppler

    @Mainloop25 said:
    For the health of the game, I wouldn't mind seeing caps on either of these

    How's this?

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 618 Critical Contributor

    Eek... and apparently the alternate art version of Ocelot Pride only costs 1 mana?!

    This combo has been spotted out and about during this weekend's coalition event...

  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,260 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yeah, they should cap the copy or stop it from gaining mana.

  • gozmaster
    gozmaster Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker

    LOOP ALL THE THINGS!!!!

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 618 Critical Contributor

    @madwren said:
    Yeah, they should cap the copy or stop it from gaining mana.

    Cutting Echoes of Eternity's effect which gives the copied card mana still gives us problems with colorless cards that gain mana, like Sunken Citadel or Survivor's Encampment.

  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,260 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Janosik said:

    @madwren said:
    Yeah, they should cap the copy or stop it from gaining mana.

    Cutting Echoes of Eternity's effect which gives the copied card mana still gives us problems with colorless cards that gain mana, like Sunken Citadel or Survivor's Encampment.

    An excellent point, sir!

  • Janosik
    Janosik Posts: 618 Critical Contributor
    edited 26 October 2024, 14:20

    @Janosik said:

    @Janosik said:
    And lo and behold, we do have at least a couple of "When Y happens, do X for free" cards: Healer of the Pride, and the new Guide of Souls.

    My team informs me that Wispdrinker Vampire combos even harder with Ocelot Pride

    (thx Xibvert ^_^)

    Wispdrinker Vampire definitely needs to be limited given the fact that it forms a combo with one of the node supports in the Race to Orazca event. Anything that creates a token (e.g. Ajani, Invigorate Leadership's passive planeswalker ability) will create an infinite loop.


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