MPQ 2025 Dev Update #1

Timemachinego · 2 February 2025, 07:36

@toecutter3095 said:
It sounds like rocking up to a casino and thinking they'll be posting the house odds at the door so you can decide whether to go in or not...

You realize that these things ARE actually available at each and every casino, on ALL the games? It might be different outside of the US, but that's at least one thing we've done correctly. You can't put a single game on the casino floor if it's entirely unfair, there are mandatory return to player percentages that must be maintained (and regularly proven or you get fined and eventually subject to legal action from players). Table games are already "solved" and known, anything computerized (virtual tables, all the slots and video poker etc) have to display their payout tables and odds.

Scofie · 2 February 2025, 09:54

@Timemachinego said:

And this is where I think a lot of the disconnect lies... they had me happy with previous reward structures, I even paid for tokens when I missed completing the daily missions that would let me complete the previous seasonal vaults. This new bull, I just can't be arsed to go out of my way for yet another low value reward and the weakest chance of what I actually want.

I can't remember where but someone posted a response to me that included a link to the owners' directions that literally said that BCS should start turning the screw on us, dial back rewards and try to force more sales... and to that, I say screw you. I used to buy minimally valuable offers, costumes I thought were a bit better, whatever because I had good will for this game and our developers. I no longer have that. I'll play for free as long as you continue to entertain me. You have to earn my spending back. I'll dissent and post loudly every time you make another ill-thought move and I hope others will follow.

And I think "going out of your way" is the thing here. It's like @toecutter3095 says above - most things can be done without changing much. If it's dropping in Nightcrawler for the easy PvE nodes or DDQ, it's not a problem. If it's 80 web tiles it's a bit more tricky, but that's a turn of the 4* DDQ node with the web creators.

What you're getting for the extra few minutes over the course of the month is some free lottery tickets. If that's not worth it, don't do it. I've skipped several because I didn't have the time or inclination (though normally it's when I've already got the ascended characters from the vault).

As for the secondary part, I've not seen that but it doesn't surprise me. Shareholders are all about less for more, same as customers want more for less. It's a balance that the devs need to consider in the economy and in the design of characters: the win-win is naturally power creep of new characters. Players get great characters and buy them and shareholders make the money off them. And that's potentially bad for the long term enjoyment of the game. The other thing here is the non-monetized costs of the game. The new engine will have been a massive and risky undertaking and it needs to be paid for. I do not know the economics of the industry or any of those things, but cashflow will play into it too. Ultimately, everything in this game is a digital good, either free or paid for. That dial will have to shift over time to deal with real world economics. So too, do individual economics and willingness to spend money and time on the game. We can't control either of those things, though, so I just do what I do and hope everything works out OK in the end. 🙂

DAZ0273 · 2 February 2025, 12:17

@toecutter3095 said:
It sounds like rocking up to a casino and thinking they'll be posting the house odds at the door so you can decide whether to go in or not...

I have to agree, I find the quests are easily completed well in advance of the end of the season with no actual extra play time. It is just a matter of seeing that I need to switch back to Gorr in my PVE team for repeaters, or toss in Spider-Man: India for webs or check which colour is actually the strongest in the team I am running if I need to match strongest. I'm not expecting a T10 finish so if I have to run some nodes with someone who normally sits on the bench, it adds a little variety rather than pain to the day's play.

Most of the Quests can be done in tandem with normal play. You can knock out the Countdown one with Sentry in the 3* DPD for example. Probably the ones that are truly sub optimal are the fire powers x times for new releases but the shards on offer are well worth it.

slidecage · 2 February 2025, 17:15

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:
60 item vault says a third though missions so that is only 20. Say 15 with over level if lucky. That is only 35 so your still only going to have a 50 chance at getting the ascended .

They need more info like

If you complete all 50 levels you will earn 20 tokens

Compelet all rewards will earn you say 15 more

There will be a chance to buy hp packages that will earn you up to 15 more

The final 10 tokens you must buy with cash

Though I'm guessing that be higher then 10

Face it it's never coming back to the way it was and really not even worth the hassle anymore they just screwed this up too badly

Anyone notice this last 2 star did not have the ascended vault

I think it's fine to speculate about how many tokens are available to buy versus how many are free. It's already been said that there will be more tokens available than rewards, so it could be 70 "free" v 20 "bought" or 30 "free" and 60 "bought" or 80 "free" and 80 "bought".

What I don't quite understand is being annoyed about the guess you've just made in advance of it being proved right or wrong. You're right that it won't go back to the way it was and I think the reasons for that are pretty clear. There were many people on this forum that said "this won't last because it's too generous". And it hasn't.

And it depends on your definition of "screwed up", I suppose. They did something overly generous, spotted it and reversed it too far, listened to that criticism and found a good halfway measure. The alternatives are to start with the bad version always and increase it slowly to avoid complaints. Personally, I'd rather they make generous mistakes, bank the extra stuff and not worry about what comes next.

However many there are, the tokens are still "free". Even if only one token is free, you can still get the ascended character. By reducing the vault size, the chances of getting one item is increased so there's that (though reducing the number of ascended characters diminishes the chance of getting any ascended character). What you're talking about is guaranteeing getting it with free tokens to avoid RNG which is a mechanism that the game lives on. It's why a 5☆ only token would never work well for the game. It's great for players but you need to experience the lows of a long run of owning CT/LTs without a 5☆ to fully enjoy the highs of 4 in a row.

Mostly all I'm asking is it will be nice if they will put out the numbers of

How many you get by clearing 50 stages
How many you get if all missions
How many will be by hp
How many hy cash

So people know the numbers before playing

Even if it's 5 tokens by cash that means still a chance you could do everything and still miss out on the best item

In the past I wanted all the ascended and make sure I did all the daily but then figure out it be years before I ever make them higher so mostly stop chasing

I think the first one only got less then 20 covers added so it will be many many years before I can ascended then

I think writing that now is a hostage to fortune. They'll want to iterate it and balance rewards across events and all sorts of things. So it won't be published now or in advance. That's basic sales - you will not sell a bundle of tokens on day 3 if you know you've got a 75% chance of getting the rewards for free. Keeping that hidden is a way to capitalise on FOMO.

I also don't understand why you'd need to know that begin playing? Surely if you're not bothered you'll just get as many as you get without trying and open them? If there's something in there you want, you'll try to get a many as possible and buy if you don't get it?

The ascended character is by far the most objectively valuable thing in the vault but I like the 5☆s and costumes as much. I'm fine with getting or not getting things for free. If I desperately want something and I dint get it through free tokens, I'll buy vault tokens until I do. It's not a case of all or nothing.

simple cause if i know if i can earn say 50 out of 60 for free then i will have a reason to make sure i get all missions done.. now if its 30 or 40 out of 60 then i really wouldnt care as much as i know there is still a 50% chance i will not get what i want

will the X sesonal vault end or will it still go on for 33 days

This makes no sense whatsoever.

ya it does just like this month

50 pulls nothing but ****

2 5s
9 4s
7 100
2 cps

if knew it be this bad probally wouldnt even attempted it

DAZ0273 · 2 February 2025, 17:36

@slidecage said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:
60 item vault says a third though missions so that is only 20. Say 15 with over level if lucky. That is only 35 so your still only going to have a 50 chance at getting the ascended .

They need more info like

If you complete all 50 levels you will earn 20 tokens

Compelet all rewards will earn you say 15 more

There will be a chance to buy hp packages that will earn you up to 15 more

The final 10 tokens you must buy with cash

Though I'm guessing that be higher then 10

Face it it's never coming back to the way it was and really not even worth the hassle anymore they just screwed this up too badly

Anyone notice this last 2 star did not have the ascended vault

I think it's fine to speculate about how many tokens are available to buy versus how many are free. It's already been said that there will be more tokens available than rewards, so it could be 70 "free" v 20 "bought" or 30 "free" and 60 "bought" or 80 "free" and 80 "bought".

What I don't quite understand is being annoyed about the guess you've just made in advance of it being proved right or wrong. You're right that it won't go back to the way it was and I think the reasons for that are pretty clear. There were many people on this forum that said "this won't last because it's too generous". And it hasn't.

And it depends on your definition of "screwed up", I suppose. They did something overly generous, spotted it and reversed it too far, listened to that criticism and found a good halfway measure. The alternatives are to start with the bad version always and increase it slowly to avoid complaints. Personally, I'd rather they make generous mistakes, bank the extra stuff and not worry about what comes next.

However many there are, the tokens are still "free". Even if only one token is free, you can still get the ascended character. By reducing the vault size, the chances of getting one item is increased so there's that (though reducing the number of ascended characters diminishes the chance of getting any ascended character). What you're talking about is guaranteeing getting it with free tokens to avoid RNG which is a mechanism that the game lives on. It's why a 5☆ only token would never work well for the game. It's great for players but you need to experience the lows of a long run of owning CT/LTs without a 5☆ to fully enjoy the highs of 4 in a row.

Mostly all I'm asking is it will be nice if they will put out the numbers of

How many you get by clearing 50 stages
How many you get if all missions
How many will be by hp
How many hy cash

So people know the numbers before playing

Even if it's 5 tokens by cash that means still a chance you could do everything and still miss out on the best item

In the past I wanted all the ascended and make sure I did all the daily but then figure out it be years before I ever make them higher so mostly stop chasing

I think the first one only got less then 20 covers added so it will be many many years before I can ascended then

I think writing that now is a hostage to fortune. They'll want to iterate it and balance rewards across events and all sorts of things. So it won't be published now or in advance. That's basic sales - you will not sell a bundle of tokens on day 3 if you know you've got a 75% chance of getting the rewards for free. Keeping that hidden is a way to capitalise on FOMO.

I also don't understand why you'd need to know that begin playing? Surely if you're not bothered you'll just get as many as you get without trying and open them? If there's something in there you want, you'll try to get a many as possible and buy if you don't get it?

The ascended character is by far the most objectively valuable thing in the vault but I like the 5☆s and costumes as much. I'm fine with getting or not getting things for free. If I desperately want something and I dint get it through free tokens, I'll buy vault tokens until I do. It's not a case of all or nothing.

simple cause if i know if i can earn say 50 out of 60 for free then i will have a reason to make sure i get all missions done.. now if its 30 or 40 out of 60 then i really wouldnt care as much as i know there is still a 50% chance i will not get what i want

will the X sesonal vault end or will it still go on for 33 days

This makes no sense whatsoever.

ya it does just like this month

50 pulls nothing but ****

2 5s
9 4s
7 100
2 cps

if knew it be this bad probally wouldnt even attempted it

And on any other given time you might have struck gold. You are talking like these results are the only results possible.

entrailbucket · 2 February 2025, 17:42

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:
60 item vault says a third though missions so that is only 20. Say 15 with over level if lucky. That is only 35 so your still only going to have a 50 chance at getting the ascended .

They need more info like

If you complete all 50 levels you will earn 20 tokens

Compelet all rewards will earn you say 15 more

There will be a chance to buy hp packages that will earn you up to 15 more

The final 10 tokens you must buy with cash

Though I'm guessing that be higher then 10

Face it it's never coming back to the way it was and really not even worth the hassle anymore they just screwed this up too badly

Anyone notice this last 2 star did not have the ascended vault

I think it's fine to speculate about how many tokens are available to buy versus how many are free. It's already been said that there will be more tokens available than rewards, so it could be 70 "free" v 20 "bought" or 30 "free" and 60 "bought" or 80 "free" and 80 "bought".

What I don't quite understand is being annoyed about the guess you've just made in advance of it being proved right or wrong. You're right that it won't go back to the way it was and I think the reasons for that are pretty clear. There were many people on this forum that said "this won't last because it's too generous". And it hasn't.

And it depends on your definition of "screwed up", I suppose. They did something overly generous, spotted it and reversed it too far, listened to that criticism and found a good halfway measure. The alternatives are to start with the bad version always and increase it slowly to avoid complaints. Personally, I'd rather they make generous mistakes, bank the extra stuff and not worry about what comes next.

However many there are, the tokens are still "free". Even if only one token is free, you can still get the ascended character. By reducing the vault size, the chances of getting one item is increased so there's that (though reducing the number of ascended characters diminishes the chance of getting any ascended character). What you're talking about is guaranteeing getting it with free tokens to avoid RNG which is a mechanism that the game lives on. It's why a 5☆ only token would never work well for the game. It's great for players but you need to experience the lows of a long run of owning CT/LTs without a 5☆ to fully enjoy the highs of 4 in a row.

Mostly all I'm asking is it will be nice if they will put out the numbers of

How many you get by clearing 50 stages
How many you get if all missions
How many will be by hp
How many hy cash

So people know the numbers before playing

Even if it's 5 tokens by cash that means still a chance you could do everything and still miss out on the best item

In the past I wanted all the ascended and make sure I did all the daily but then figure out it be years before I ever make them higher so mostly stop chasing

I think the first one only got less then 20 covers added so it will be many many years before I can ascended then

I think writing that now is a hostage to fortune. They'll want to iterate it and balance rewards across events and all sorts of things. So it won't be published now or in advance. That's basic sales - you will not sell a bundle of tokens on day 3 if you know you've got a 75% chance of getting the rewards for free. Keeping that hidden is a way to capitalise on FOMO.

I also don't understand why you'd need to know that begin playing? Surely if you're not bothered you'll just get as many as you get without trying and open them? If there's something in there you want, you'll try to get a many as possible and buy if you don't get it?

The ascended character is by far the most objectively valuable thing in the vault but I like the 5☆s and costumes as much. I'm fine with getting or not getting things for free. If I desperately want something and I dint get it through free tokens, I'll buy vault tokens until I do. It's not a case of all or nothing.

simple cause if i know if i can earn say 50 out of 60 for free then i will have a reason to make sure i get all missions done.. now if its 30 or 40 out of 60 then i really wouldnt care as much as i know there is still a 50% chance i will not get what i want

will the X sesonal vault end or will it still go on for 33 days

This makes no sense whatsoever.

ya it does just like this month

50 pulls nothing but ****

2 5s
9 4s
7 100
2 cps

if knew it be this bad probally wouldnt even attempted it

And on any other given time you might have struck gold. You are talking like these results are the only results possible.

It's almost like the results are random! No, couldn't be.

KGB · 2 February 2025, 18:46

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:
60 item vault says a third though missions so that is only 20. Say 15 with over level if lucky. That is only 35 so your still only going to have a 50 chance at getting the ascended .

They need more info like

If you complete all 50 levels you will earn 20 tokens

Compelet all rewards will earn you say 15 more

There will be a chance to buy hp packages that will earn you up to 15 more

The final 10 tokens you must buy with cash

Though I'm guessing that be higher then 10

Face it it's never coming back to the way it was and really not even worth the hassle anymore they just screwed this up too badly

Anyone notice this last 2 star did not have the ascended vault

I think it's fine to speculate about how many tokens are available to buy versus how many are free. It's already been said that there will be more tokens available than rewards, so it could be 70 "free" v 20 "bought" or 30 "free" and 60 "bought" or 80 "free" and 80 "bought".

What I don't quite understand is being annoyed about the guess you've just made in advance of it being proved right or wrong. You're right that it won't go back to the way it was and I think the reasons for that are pretty clear. There were many people on this forum that said "this won't last because it's too generous". And it hasn't.

And it depends on your definition of "screwed up", I suppose. They did something overly generous, spotted it and reversed it too far, listened to that criticism and found a good halfway measure. The alternatives are to start with the bad version always and increase it slowly to avoid complaints. Personally, I'd rather they make generous mistakes, bank the extra stuff and not worry about what comes next.

However many there are, the tokens are still "free". Even if only one token is free, you can still get the ascended character. By reducing the vault size, the chances of getting one item is increased so there's that (though reducing the number of ascended characters diminishes the chance of getting any ascended character). What you're talking about is guaranteeing getting it with free tokens to avoid RNG which is a mechanism that the game lives on. It's why a 5☆ only token would never work well for the game. It's great for players but you need to experience the lows of a long run of owning CT/LTs without a 5☆ to fully enjoy the highs of 4 in a row.

Mostly all I'm asking is it will be nice if they will put out the numbers of

How many you get by clearing 50 stages
How many you get if all missions
How many will be by hp
How many hy cash

So people know the numbers before playing

Even if it's 5 tokens by cash that means still a chance you could do everything and still miss out on the best item

In the past I wanted all the ascended and make sure I did all the daily but then figure out it be years before I ever make them higher so mostly stop chasing

I think the first one only got less then 20 covers added so it will be many many years before I can ascended then

I think writing that now is a hostage to fortune. They'll want to iterate it and balance rewards across events and all sorts of things. So it won't be published now or in advance. That's basic sales - you will not sell a bundle of tokens on day 3 if you know you've got a 75% chance of getting the rewards for free. Keeping that hidden is a way to capitalise on FOMO.

I also don't understand why you'd need to know that begin playing? Surely if you're not bothered you'll just get as many as you get without trying and open them? If there's something in there you want, you'll try to get a many as possible and buy if you don't get it?

The ascended character is by far the most objectively valuable thing in the vault but I like the 5☆s and costumes as much. I'm fine with getting or not getting things for free. If I desperately want something and I dint get it through free tokens, I'll buy vault tokens until I do. It's not a case of all or nothing.

simple cause if i know if i can earn say 50 out of 60 for free then i will have a reason to make sure i get all missions done.. now if its 30 or 40 out of 60 then i really wouldnt care as much as i know there is still a 50% chance i will not get what i want

will the X sesonal vault end or will it still go on for 33 days

This makes no sense whatsoever.

ya it does just like this month

50 pulls nothing but ****

2 5s
9 4s
7 100
2 cps

if knew it be this bad probally wouldnt even attempted it

And on any other given time you might have struck gold. You are talking like these results are the only results possible.

It's almost like the results are random! No, couldn't be.

Definitely not random. The Devs are clearly using AI to scan posts for negativity and adjusting pulls so that complainers get worse results

KGB

trenchdigger · 2 February 2025, 18:57

If only!

entrailbucket · 2 February 2025, 19:17

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:
60 item vault says a third though missions so that is only 20. Say 15 with over level if lucky. That is only 35 so your still only going to have a 50 chance at getting the ascended .

They need more info like

If you complete all 50 levels you will earn 20 tokens

Compelet all rewards will earn you say 15 more

There will be a chance to buy hp packages that will earn you up to 15 more

The final 10 tokens you must buy with cash

Though I'm guessing that be higher then 10

Face it it's never coming back to the way it was and really not even worth the hassle anymore they just screwed this up too badly

Anyone notice this last 2 star did not have the ascended vault

I think it's fine to speculate about how many tokens are available to buy versus how many are free. It's already been said that there will be more tokens available than rewards, so it could be 70 "free" v 20 "bought" or 30 "free" and 60 "bought" or 80 "free" and 80 "bought".

What I don't quite understand is being annoyed about the guess you've just made in advance of it being proved right or wrong. You're right that it won't go back to the way it was and I think the reasons for that are pretty clear. There were many people on this forum that said "this won't last because it's too generous". And it hasn't.

And it depends on your definition of "screwed up", I suppose. They did something overly generous, spotted it and reversed it too far, listened to that criticism and found a good halfway measure. The alternatives are to start with the bad version always and increase it slowly to avoid complaints. Personally, I'd rather they make generous mistakes, bank the extra stuff and not worry about what comes next.

However many there are, the tokens are still "free". Even if only one token is free, you can still get the ascended character. By reducing the vault size, the chances of getting one item is increased so there's that (though reducing the number of ascended characters diminishes the chance of getting any ascended character). What you're talking about is guaranteeing getting it with free tokens to avoid RNG which is a mechanism that the game lives on. It's why a 5☆ only token would never work well for the game. It's great for players but you need to experience the lows of a long run of owning CT/LTs without a 5☆ to fully enjoy the highs of 4 in a row.

Mostly all I'm asking is it will be nice if they will put out the numbers of

How many you get by clearing 50 stages
How many you get if all missions
How many will be by hp
How many hy cash

So people know the numbers before playing

Even if it's 5 tokens by cash that means still a chance you could do everything and still miss out on the best item

In the past I wanted all the ascended and make sure I did all the daily but then figure out it be years before I ever make them higher so mostly stop chasing

I think the first one only got less then 20 covers added so it will be many many years before I can ascended then

I think writing that now is a hostage to fortune. They'll want to iterate it and balance rewards across events and all sorts of things. So it won't be published now or in advance. That's basic sales - you will not sell a bundle of tokens on day 3 if you know you've got a 75% chance of getting the rewards for free. Keeping that hidden is a way to capitalise on FOMO.

I also don't understand why you'd need to know that begin playing? Surely if you're not bothered you'll just get as many as you get without trying and open them? If there's something in there you want, you'll try to get a many as possible and buy if you don't get it?

The ascended character is by far the most objectively valuable thing in the vault but I like the 5☆s and costumes as much. I'm fine with getting or not getting things for free. If I desperately want something and I dint get it through free tokens, I'll buy vault tokens until I do. It's not a case of all or nothing.

simple cause if i know if i can earn say 50 out of 60 for free then i will have a reason to make sure i get all missions done.. now if its 30 or 40 out of 60 then i really wouldnt care as much as i know there is still a 50% chance i will not get what i want

will the X sesonal vault end or will it still go on for 33 days

This makes no sense whatsoever.

ya it does just like this month

50 pulls nothing but ****

2 5s
9 4s
7 100
2 cps

if knew it be this bad probally wouldnt even attempted it

And on any other given time you might have struck gold. You are talking like these results are the only results possible.

It's almost like the results are random! No, couldn't be.

Definitely not random. The Devs are clearly using AI to scan posts for negativity and adjusting pulls so that complainers get worse results

KGB

This is false. There's a janitor in a closet at the devs' office, and every time you open a token, he decides what you get.

WilliamK1983 · 2 February 2025, 19:39

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:
60 item vault says a third though missions so that is only 20. Say 15 with over level if lucky. That is only 35 so your still only going to have a 50 chance at getting the ascended .

They need more info like

If you complete all 50 levels you will earn 20 tokens

Compelet all rewards will earn you say 15 more

There will be a chance to buy hp packages that will earn you up to 15 more

The final 10 tokens you must buy with cash

Though I'm guessing that be higher then 10

Face it it's never coming back to the way it was and really not even worth the hassle anymore they just screwed this up too badly

Anyone notice this last 2 star did not have the ascended vault

I think it's fine to speculate about how many tokens are available to buy versus how many are free. It's already been said that there will be more tokens available than rewards, so it could be 70 "free" v 20 "bought" or 30 "free" and 60 "bought" or 80 "free" and 80 "bought".

What I don't quite understand is being annoyed about the guess you've just made in advance of it being proved right or wrong. You're right that it won't go back to the way it was and I think the reasons for that are pretty clear. There were many people on this forum that said "this won't last because it's too generous". And it hasn't.

And it depends on your definition of "screwed up", I suppose. They did something overly generous, spotted it and reversed it too far, listened to that criticism and found a good halfway measure. The alternatives are to start with the bad version always and increase it slowly to avoid complaints. Personally, I'd rather they make generous mistakes, bank the extra stuff and not worry about what comes next.

However many there are, the tokens are still "free". Even if only one token is free, you can still get the ascended character. By reducing the vault size, the chances of getting one item is increased so there's that (though reducing the number of ascended characters diminishes the chance of getting any ascended character). What you're talking about is guaranteeing getting it with free tokens to avoid RNG which is a mechanism that the game lives on. It's why a 5☆ only token would never work well for the game. It's great for players but you need to experience the lows of a long run of owning CT/LTs without a 5☆ to fully enjoy the highs of 4 in a row.

Mostly all I'm asking is it will be nice if they will put out the numbers of

How many you get by clearing 50 stages
How many you get if all missions
How many will be by hp
How many hy cash

So people know the numbers before playing

Even if it's 5 tokens by cash that means still a chance you could do everything and still miss out on the best item

In the past I wanted all the ascended and make sure I did all the daily but then figure out it be years before I ever make them higher so mostly stop chasing

I think the first one only got less then 20 covers added so it will be many many years before I can ascended then

I think writing that now is a hostage to fortune. They'll want to iterate it and balance rewards across events and all sorts of things. So it won't be published now or in advance. That's basic sales - you will not sell a bundle of tokens on day 3 if you know you've got a 75% chance of getting the rewards for free. Keeping that hidden is a way to capitalise on FOMO.

I also don't understand why you'd need to know that begin playing? Surely if you're not bothered you'll just get as many as you get without trying and open them? If there's something in there you want, you'll try to get a many as possible and buy if you don't get it?

The ascended character is by far the most objectively valuable thing in the vault but I like the 5☆s and costumes as much. I'm fine with getting or not getting things for free. If I desperately want something and I dint get it through free tokens, I'll buy vault tokens until I do. It's not a case of all or nothing.

simple cause if i know if i can earn say 50 out of 60 for free then i will have a reason to make sure i get all missions done.. now if its 30 or 40 out of 60 then i really wouldnt care as much as i know there is still a 50% chance i will not get what i want

will the X sesonal vault end or will it still go on for 33 days

This makes no sense whatsoever.

ya it does just like this month

50 pulls nothing but ****

2 5s
9 4s
7 100
2 cps

if knew it be this bad probally wouldnt even attempted it

And on any other given time you might have struck gold. You are talking like these results are the only results possible.

It's almost like the results are random! No, couldn't be.

Definitely not random. The Devs are clearly using AI to scan posts for negativity and adjusting pulls so that complainers get worse results

KGB

This is false. There's a janitor in a closet at the devs' office, and every time you open a token, he decides what you get.

"Who showed him this power? Who controls the would be mpq'ers?"

BriMan2222 · 2 February 2025, 21:38

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:
60 item vault says a third though missions so that is only 20. Say 15 with over level if lucky. That is only 35 so your still only going to have a 50 chance at getting the ascended .

They need more info like

If you complete all 50 levels you will earn 20 tokens

Compelet all rewards will earn you say 15 more

There will be a chance to buy hp packages that will earn you up to 15 more

The final 10 tokens you must buy with cash

Though I'm guessing that be higher then 10

Face it it's never coming back to the way it was and really not even worth the hassle anymore they just screwed this up too badly

Anyone notice this last 2 star did not have the ascended vault

I think it's fine to speculate about how many tokens are available to buy versus how many are free. It's already been said that there will be more tokens available than rewards, so it could be 70 "free" v 20 "bought" or 30 "free" and 60 "bought" or 80 "free" and 80 "bought".

What I don't quite understand is being annoyed about the guess you've just made in advance of it being proved right or wrong. You're right that it won't go back to the way it was and I think the reasons for that are pretty clear. There were many people on this forum that said "this won't last because it's too generous". And it hasn't.

And it depends on your definition of "screwed up", I suppose. They did something overly generous, spotted it and reversed it too far, listened to that criticism and found a good halfway measure. The alternatives are to start with the bad version always and increase it slowly to avoid complaints. Personally, I'd rather they make generous mistakes, bank the extra stuff and not worry about what comes next.

However many there are, the tokens are still "free". Even if only one token is free, you can still get the ascended character. By reducing the vault size, the chances of getting one item is increased so there's that (though reducing the number of ascended characters diminishes the chance of getting any ascended character). What you're talking about is guaranteeing getting it with free tokens to avoid RNG which is a mechanism that the game lives on. It's why a 5☆ only token would never work well for the game. It's great for players but you need to experience the lows of a long run of owning CT/LTs without a 5☆ to fully enjoy the highs of 4 in a row.

Mostly all I'm asking is it will be nice if they will put out the numbers of

How many you get by clearing 50 stages
How many you get if all missions
How many will be by hp
How many hy cash

So people know the numbers before playing

Even if it's 5 tokens by cash that means still a chance you could do everything and still miss out on the best item

In the past I wanted all the ascended and make sure I did all the daily but then figure out it be years before I ever make them higher so mostly stop chasing

I think the first one only got less then 20 covers added so it will be many many years before I can ascended then

I think writing that now is a hostage to fortune. They'll want to iterate it and balance rewards across events and all sorts of things. So it won't be published now or in advance. That's basic sales - you will not sell a bundle of tokens on day 3 if you know you've got a 75% chance of getting the rewards for free. Keeping that hidden is a way to capitalise on FOMO.

I also don't understand why you'd need to know that begin playing? Surely if you're not bothered you'll just get as many as you get without trying and open them? If there's something in there you want, you'll try to get a many as possible and buy if you don't get it?

The ascended character is by far the most objectively valuable thing in the vault but I like the 5☆s and costumes as much. I'm fine with getting or not getting things for free. If I desperately want something and I dint get it through free tokens, I'll buy vault tokens until I do. It's not a case of all or nothing.

simple cause if i know if i can earn say 50 out of 60 for free then i will have a reason to make sure i get all missions done.. now if its 30 or 40 out of 60 then i really wouldnt care as much as i know there is still a 50% chance i will not get what i want

will the X sesonal vault end or will it still go on for 33 days

This makes no sense whatsoever.

ya it does just like this month

50 pulls nothing but ****

2 5s
9 4s
7 100
2 cps

if knew it be this bad probally wouldnt even attempted it

And on any other given time you might have struck gold. You are talking like these results are the only results possible.

It's almost like the results are random! No, couldn't be.

Definitely not random. The Devs are clearly using AI to scan posts for negativity and adjusting pulls so that complainers get worse results

KGB

This is false. There's a janitor in a closet at the devs' office, and every time you open a token, he decides what you get.

He's not a janitor. His name is Dr. Jan Itor

toecutter3095 · 3 February 2025 02:10

@Timemachinego said:

@toecutter3095 said:
It sounds like rocking up to a casino and thinking they'll be posting the house odds at the door so you can decide whether to go in or not...

You realize that these things ARE actually available at each and every casino, on ALL the games? It might be different outside of the US, but that's at least one thing we've done correctly. You can't put a single game on the casino floor if it's entirely unfair, there are mandatory return to player percentages that must be maintained (and regularly proven or you get fined and eventually subject to legal action from players). Table games are already "solved" and known, anything computerized (virtual tables, all the slots and video poker etc) have to display their payout tables and odds.

Haha, that's what you get when you make an analogy about casinos when you've never actually been to one. It seemed like an unrealistic expectation about casinos, much like the idea of posting odds here, but it turns out casinos are doing a better service for their community. Mind blown.

entrailbucket · 3 February 2025 02:33

@toecutter3095 said:

@Timemachinego said:

@toecutter3095 said:
It sounds like rocking up to a casino and thinking they'll be posting the house odds at the door so you can decide whether to go in or not...

You realize that these things ARE actually available at each and every casino, on ALL the games? It might be different outside of the US, but that's at least one thing we've done correctly. You can't put a single game on the casino floor if it's entirely unfair, there are mandatory return to player percentages that must be maintained (and regularly proven or you get fined and eventually subject to legal action from players). Table games are already "solved" and known, anything computerized (virtual tables, all the slots and video poker etc) have to display their payout tables and odds.

Haha, that's what you get when you make an analogy about casinos when you've never actually been to one. It seemed like an unrealistic expectation about casinos, much like the idea of posting odds here, but it turns out casinos are doing a better service for their community. Mind blown.

The odds are posted for MPQ though. Every single token lists exactly what chance is has to give something, and every vault's contents are fully shown.

The casino metaphor would be complaining that you lost $10,000 at blackjack because of bad luck (even though you knew the odds), and asking for your money back.

Scofie · 3 February 2025 11:05

@entrailbucket said:

@toecutter3095 said:

@Timemachinego said:

@toecutter3095 said:
It sounds like rocking up to a casino and thinking they'll be posting the house odds at the door so you can decide whether to go in or not...

You realize that these things ARE actually available at each and every casino, on ALL the games? It might be different outside of the US, but that's at least one thing we've done correctly. You can't put a single game on the casino floor if it's entirely unfair, there are mandatory return to player percentages that must be maintained (and regularly proven or you get fined and eventually subject to legal action from players). Table games are already "solved" and known, anything computerized (virtual tables, all the slots and video poker etc) have to display their payout tables and odds.

Haha, that's what you get when you make an analogy about casinos when you've never actually been to one. It seemed like an unrealistic expectation about casinos, much like the idea of posting odds here, but it turns out casinos are doing a better service for their community. Mind blown.

The odds are posted for MPQ though. Every single token lists exactly what chance is has to give something, and every vault's contents are fully shown.

The casino metaphor would be complaining that you lost $10,000 at blackjack because of bad luck (even though you knew the odds), and asking for your money back.

More accurately, it's like complaining you lost the $10,000 they gave you on entry and you didn't win the jackpot, after having spent an hour putting in the coins.

DAZ0273 · 3 February 2025 11:36

Or they gave you $10,000 but also a squirrel called Nigel but advised you might not get to keep either and also a pigeon called Frank is available. Also Dr. Jan Itor is hiding behind one of the fruit machines with a pot of yoghurt which he might randomly jump out and give to you. Or he may not. The Casino is run by Mr. Chance de Chance who might just be a Cajun Casino owner but also might be Steven Seagal in a wig. "You take de chance when you come into de Chance Casino, non?"

All things are possible when you are chancing at de Chance!

Timemachinego · 3 February 2025 14:20

@toecutter3095 said:
Haha, that's what you get when you make an analogy about casinos when you've never actually been to one. It seemed like an unrealistic expectation about casinos, much like the idea of posting odds here, but it turns out casinos are doing a better service for their community. Mind blown.

TBF this is probably something that only the cheap or anal (or both, in my case lol) are probably actually aware of. I've got not quite high-roller but well off enough friends who have packed me (relatively poor) along on Vegas trips before, since I like a lot of the touristy stuff and I guess I'm good to have around so they don't spend TOO much time on the casino floors. When they're settling in to lose however much they budgeted for the night, I needed to figure out what I should be amusing myself with for the longest time and least spent possible. I can take minimal losses just about anywhere and recoup on the drink service

ThisisClemFandango · 3 February 2025 14:36

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:

@Scofie said:

@slidecage said:
60 item vault says a third though missions so that is only 20. Say 15 with over level if lucky. That is only 35 so your still only going to have a 50 chance at getting the ascended .

They need more info like

If you complete all 50 levels you will earn 20 tokens

Compelet all rewards will earn you say 15 more

There will be a chance to buy hp packages that will earn you up to 15 more

The final 10 tokens you must buy with cash

Though I'm guessing that be higher then 10

Face it it's never coming back to the way it was and really not even worth the hassle anymore they just screwed this up too badly

Anyone notice this last 2 star did not have the ascended vault

I think it's fine to speculate about how many tokens are available to buy versus how many are free. It's already been said that there will be more tokens available than rewards, so it could be 70 "free" v 20 "bought" or 30 "free" and 60 "bought" or 80 "free" and 80 "bought".

What I don't quite understand is being annoyed about the guess you've just made in advance of it being proved right or wrong. You're right that it won't go back to the way it was and I think the reasons for that are pretty clear. There were many people on this forum that said "this won't last because it's too generous". And it hasn't.

And it depends on your definition of "screwed up", I suppose. They did something overly generous, spotted it and reversed it too far, listened to that criticism and found a good halfway measure. The alternatives are to start with the bad version always and increase it slowly to avoid complaints. Personally, I'd rather they make generous mistakes, bank the extra stuff and not worry about what comes next.

However many there are, the tokens are still "free". Even if only one token is free, you can still get the ascended character. By reducing the vault size, the chances of getting one item is increased so there's that (though reducing the number of ascended characters diminishes the chance of getting any ascended character). What you're talking about is guaranteeing getting it with free tokens to avoid RNG which is a mechanism that the game lives on. It's why a 5☆ only token would never work well for the game. It's great for players but you need to experience the lows of a long run of owning CT/LTs without a 5☆ to fully enjoy the highs of 4 in a row.

Mostly all I'm asking is it will be nice if they will put out the numbers of

How many you get by clearing 50 stages
How many you get if all missions
How many will be by hp
How many hy cash

So people know the numbers before playing

Even if it's 5 tokens by cash that means still a chance you could do everything and still miss out on the best item

In the past I wanted all the ascended and make sure I did all the daily but then figure out it be years before I ever make them higher so mostly stop chasing

I think the first one only got less then 20 covers added so it will be many many years before I can ascended then

I think writing that now is a hostage to fortune. They'll want to iterate it and balance rewards across events and all sorts of things. So it won't be published now or in advance. That's basic sales - you will not sell a bundle of tokens on day 3 if you know you've got a 75% chance of getting the rewards for free. Keeping that hidden is a way to capitalise on FOMO.

I also don't understand why you'd need to know that begin playing? Surely if you're not bothered you'll just get as many as you get without trying and open them? If there's something in there you want, you'll try to get a many as possible and buy if you don't get it?

The ascended character is by far the most objectively valuable thing in the vault but I like the 5☆s and costumes as much. I'm fine with getting or not getting things for free. If I desperately want something and I dint get it through free tokens, I'll buy vault tokens until I do. It's not a case of all or nothing.

simple cause if i know if i can earn say 50 out of 60 for free then i will have a reason to make sure i get all missions done.. now if its 30 or 40 out of 60 then i really wouldnt care as much as i know there is still a 50% chance i will not get what i want

will the X sesonal vault end or will it still go on for 33 days

This makes no sense whatsoever.

ya it does just like this month

50 pulls nothing but ****

2 5s
9 4s
7 100
2 cps

if knew it be this bad probally wouldnt even attempted it

And on any other given time you might have struck gold. You are talking like these results are the only results possible.

It's almost like the results are random! No, couldn't be.

Definitely not random. The Devs are clearly using AI to scan posts for negativity and adjusting pulls so that complainers get worse results

KGB

I get **** results and everyone thinks I'm an absolute legend so I'm not sure.
Probably an anomaly and bcs will get on it as soon as I've posted

DAZ0273 · 3 February 2025 14:49

I don't even know that he did all that badly! He got two 5*, nine 4's, some CP and 700 HP not 49 team-up boosts and a kick in the scrotum

trenchdigger · 3 February 2025 15:45

And you could argue that he did incredibly well given that he doesn't even want the ascended 3s, and I quote "In the past I wanted all the ascended and make sure I did all the daily but then figure out it be years before I ever make them higher so mostly stop chasing"

MPQ 2025 Dev Update #1

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