End of Year MPQ Feature Updates

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Comments

  • Scofie
    Scofie GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,402 Chairperson of the Boards

    @supergarv said:
    @IceIX

    Something to know at the outset here is that while we did take a little value from the Season Pass itself (because the average value of a Vault Token is more than what it replaced), the Vault itself is pretty much pure "bonus" additional value for the game economy.

    What you might not be aware of, by reading this statement: We dont want 120 rewards.

    We want that 1:120 4* ascended cover

    That guaranteed cover (if you did the work for quests) was the USP of that vault. That is what you're taking away.

    Ascending 3* is a boring tedious timeintensive task, that can take years. Please don't take reaching this earlier away from us.

    I agree with the sentiment here but this game is almost entirely RNG-based in terms of rewards from tokens. The only difference is that there was previously a mechanism to avoid the disappointment of RNG by completing everything.

    There well be, I expect, still a way to clear the vault fully if RNG isn't your friend but there may be a real life cost to that - we've seen bundles of vault tokens for sale before.

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,496 Chairperson of the Boards

    @IceIX said:

    @slidecage said:

    Something to know at the outset here is that while we did take a little value from the Season Pass itself (because the average value of a Vault Token is more than what it replaced), the Vault itself is pretty much pure "bonus" additional value for the game economy. I totally get the feeling that you should be able to pull everything from the Vault at the outset, but to keep things balanced, we'd then have to take that from somewhere else, OR we eat up the bits of expansion budget we have for other features down the road unless and until we introduce other features that sink out the added resources. And I bet players as a whole would be (rightfully) angry if we cut (numbers out of nowhere, illustration only) 10K HP and 50 CP from 5-Star champ rewards to allow for it.

    That's not to say that it will or will not possible to clear this Vault (the contents are not finalized), now or in the future as we iterate. But please be aware that this is currently planned to be additional stuff to get as opposed to base expected economy income.

    Simple way to fix this and allow you to make cash

    Free side. If you do all missions you can earn up to 80 out of 120. Items

    Pay said. If you do all missions you can pull all items plus have some extra

    This is where I had a problem with the old season pass. If you missed a daily there is a chance you could miss pulling the ascended.

    Now if reading right. Even if you get all tokens. There is still a chance you will not get top prize

    I will still play but won't make it a demand I play daily if there is a chance I still will not earn the best prize

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,332 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Scofie said:

    @supergarv said:
    @IceIX

    Something to know at the outset here is that while we did take a little value from the Season Pass itself (because the average value of a Vault Token is more than what it replaced), the Vault itself is pretty much pure "bonus" additional value for the game economy.

    What you might not be aware of, by reading this statement: We dont want 120 rewards.

    We want that 1:120 4* ascended cover

    That guaranteed cover (if you did the work for quests) was the USP of that vault. That is what you're taking away.

    Ascending 3* is a boring tedious timeintensive task, that can take years. Please don't take reaching this earlier away from us.

    I agree with the sentiment here but this game is almost entirely RNG-based in terms of rewards from tokens. The only difference is that there was previously a mechanism to avoid the disappointment of RNG by completing everything.

    There well be, I expect, still a way to clear the vault fully if RNG isn't your friend but there may be a real life cost to that - we've seen bundles of vault tokens for sale before.

    That is of course what they will do. With the previous vaults there were bundles of tokens you could buy. If you completed all the quests there was no reason to buy these bundles. Now if you miss out on the item you want buying a bundle of tokens will be the only way to make sure you get it.

  • SaltnPeppa
    SaltnPeppa Posts: 378 Mover and Shaker

    This all could have been avoided by telling CS that there will be no more swaps. It's a 2 or 3 sentence email to CS that could have went out and a two sentence forum post.

  • BobDucca
    BobDucca Posts: 22 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2024

    Hopefully they don’t consider this ‘too player friendly’ but rather reasonable to encourage engagement:

    50 tokens from free side of pass
    50 tokens from paid side of pass
    10 tokens from ‘bonus’ levels from the free side of the pass.
    10 tokens from ‘bonus’ levels from the paid side of the pass.

    Voila, 120 tokens available. Players aren’t IMMEDIATELY discouraged from engaging at all because they know they will be beholden to RNG (devs are discounting this reality imo), but only those who are 100% engaged, as well as purchased the paid pass (which imo is fairly priced), will be guaranteed to fully clear the vault.

    For those who don’t want to do all the missions (15 wins and strongest match missions when there’s no sandbox is not fun) or are comfortable stopping when they clear the pass, they can buy tokens.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,289 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2024

    @Theghouse said:

    @KGB said:
    Also where are you coming up with 3000 USD for swap costs?

    My post says verbatim that's to catch up to a player with 10-15 of the best toons at 550, which is what I did, and a number of other players have done to become a competitive 550 player.

    65k HP in swap cost to get a classic 5 to 550. 20k back in champ rewards. 45k net cost. For 10 toons that 450k HP. For 15 toons thats 675k HP. At 20k HP per $100 USD stark salary rate that's a price range of $2200-$3300 USD.

    If you insist on doing that way then yes, you'll pay cash.

    Or you do it the way I suggested. Each time you 550 a set of latest you generate 60K HP which you can then use to 550 an older classic which nets you 20K more HP for a net of 15K. It's slower but costs no money, only the earned 60K HP from 550ing the latest.

    KGB

  • Theghouse
    Theghouse Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker

    @KGB said:

    @Theghouse said:

    @KGB said:
    Also where are you coming up with 3000 USD for swap costs?

    My post says verbatim that's to catch up to a player with 10-15 of the best toons at 550, which is what I did, and a number of other players have done to become a competitive 550 player.

    65k HP in swap cost to get a classic 5 to 550. 20k back in champ rewards. 45k net cost. For 10 toons that 450k HP. For 15 toons thats 675k HP. At 20k HP per $100 USD stark salary rate that's a price range of $2200-$3300 USD.

    If you insist on doing that way then yes, you'll pay cash.

    Or you do it the way I suggested. Each time you 550 a set of latest you generate 60K HP which you can then use to 550 an older classic which nets you 20K more HP for a net of 15K. It's slower but costs no money, only the earned 60K HP from 550ing the latest.

    KGB

    You're absolutely right and it only helps support my point. The only way to avoid a massive paywall on the new swap feature is to only swap for 1 extra 550, for every trio of latest.

    Sorry to all the players who were looking forward to the same opportunity many including myself had to swap their way into a highly competitive roster of 10-15 of the best toons in the game all at 550.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Theghouse I still think those numbers are lower than you think. Everything you're talking about will be mostly after I left (most of) the competitive LINE community, but even still, it can't have gotten that big (can it?). How many people are in the big BC now (when I stopped paying attention it was like 200 people, and was already impossible to manage with that many)? And how many of them have 550s at all?

    LINE rooms have a way of warping your understanding of what a normal player looks like -- that group is the top fraction of a percentage of the game.

  • Theghouse
    Theghouse Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker

    @entrailbucket said:
    @Theghouse I still think those numbers are lower than you think. Everything you're talking about will be mostly after I left (most of) the competitive LINE community, but even still, it can't have gotten that big (can it?). How many people are in the big BC now (when I stopped paying attention it was like 200 people, and was already impossible to manage with that many)? And how many of them have 550s at all?

    LINE rooms have a way of warping your understanding of what a normal player looks like -- that group is the top fraction of a percentage of the game.

    It definitely is bigger than you remember, and t10 PVE is at the most competitive it's been in the last 4-5 years.

    I'm in no way saying the competitive scene represents the normal player, but let's all be honest, it's the only group that was engaging in 5* cover swaps.

    So for most players, this feature is just another new exorbitantly priced method to acquire covers, just like purchasing 5* covers for CP or shards in the resource store.

    Competitive 550 players, and those grinding and hoarding their way to join them, are the only ones who have had a major part of the roster building options over the last 6 years completely disrupted and hidden behind a massive new paywall.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Theghouse said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    @Theghouse I still think those numbers are lower than you think. Everything you're talking about will be mostly after I left (most of) the competitive LINE community, but even still, it can't have gotten that big (can it?). How many people are in the big BC now (when I stopped paying attention it was like 200 people, and was already impossible to manage with that many)? And how many of them have 550s at all?

    LINE rooms have a way of warping your understanding of what a normal player looks like -- that group is the top fraction of a percentage of the game.

    It definitely is bigger than you remember, and t10 PVE is at the most competitive it's been in the last 4-5 years.

    Woof. As somebody who spent years helping to run the first big multi alliance BCs, I have pity on those mods. I honestly figured the entire enterprise would collapse on itself before it got much bigger -- the constant whining, politicking, hop-leaking, targeted-sniping, "my alliancemate is friendly but he's not in the room so don't hit him or we'll kick you out," secret cupcake room-having, "don't pass that guy for #1 even though he's not in here," etc was just too much for me to handle. The current mods must be saints!

  • Theghouse
    Theghouse Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Theghouse said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    @Theghouse I still think those numbers are lower than you think. Everything you're talking about will be mostly after I left (most of) the competitive LINE community, but even still, it can't have gotten that big (can it?). How many people are in the big BC now (when I stopped paying attention it was like 200 people, and was already impossible to manage with that many)? And how many of them have 550s at all?

    LINE rooms have a way of warping your understanding of what a normal player looks like -- that group is the top fraction of a percentage of the game.

    It definitely is bigger than you remember, and t10 PVE is at the most competitive it's been in the last 4-5 years.

    Woof. As somebody who spent years helping to run the first big multi alliance BCs, I have pity on those mods. I honestly figured the entire enterprise would collapse on itself before it got much bigger -- the constant whining, politicking, hop-leaking, targeted-sniping, "my alliancemate is friendly but he's not in the room so don't hit him or we'll kick you out," secret cupcake room-having, "don't pass that guy for #1 even though he's not in here," etc was just too much for me to handle. The current mods must be saints!

    That is as bad as you remember lol

  • Pantera236
    Pantera236 Posts: 529 Critical Contributor

    @Theghouse said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Theghouse said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    @Theghouse I still think those numbers are lower than you think. Everything you're talking about will be mostly after I left (most of) the competitive LINE community, but even still, it can't have gotten that big (can it?). How many people are in the big BC now (when I stopped paying attention it was like 200 people, and was already impossible to manage with that many)? And how many of them have 550s at all?

    LINE rooms have a way of warping your understanding of what a normal player looks like -- that group is the top fraction of a percentage of the game.

    It definitely is bigger than you remember, and t10 PVE is at the most competitive it's been in the last 4-5 years.

    Woof. As somebody who spent years helping to run the first big multi alliance BCs, I have pity on those mods. I honestly figured the entire enterprise would collapse on itself before it got much bigger -- the constant whining, politicking, hop-leaking, targeted-sniping, "my alliancemate is friendly but he's not in the room so don't hit him or we'll kick you out," secret cupcake room-having, "don't pass that guy for #1 even though he's not in here," etc was just too much for me to handle. The current mods must be saints!

    That is as bad as you remember lol

    It's not as bad as it used to be, at least not in s4. I wasn't around when EB was a mod but do know exactly what you guys are talking about.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Pantera236 said:

    @Theghouse said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Theghouse said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    @Theghouse I still think those numbers are lower than you think. Everything you're talking about will be mostly after I left (most of) the competitive LINE community, but even still, it can't have gotten that big (can it?). How many people are in the big BC now (when I stopped paying attention it was like 200 people, and was already impossible to manage with that many)? And how many of them have 550s at all?

    LINE rooms have a way of warping your understanding of what a normal player looks like -- that group is the top fraction of a percentage of the game.

    It definitely is bigger than you remember, and t10 PVE is at the most competitive it's been in the last 4-5 years.

    Woof. As somebody who spent years helping to run the first big multi alliance BCs, I have pity on those mods. I honestly figured the entire enterprise would collapse on itself before it got much bigger -- the constant whining, politicking, hop-leaking, targeted-sniping, "my alliancemate is friendly but he's not in the room so don't hit him or we'll kick you out," secret cupcake room-having, "don't pass that guy for #1 even though he's not in here," etc was just too much for me to handle. The current mods must be saints!

    That is as bad as you remember lol

    It's not as bad as it used to be, at least not in s4. I wasn't around when EB was a mod but do know exactly what you guys are talking about.

    This sounds ridiculous, but there is a very good chance that I created the s4 BC you're in. I can't remember the actual lineage of it after I left, so it might not be the one I'm thinking of, but...yeah.

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