...

IamTheDanger

?.............

Unknown

I'm sure there's some terms and conditions somewhere where they reserve the right to screw you over. D3 constantly introduces new characters that aren't any better than what you had then nerf the old ones to make you spend money to get the new ones, sort of like what apple does with ios on older devices (best example I could think of). Long story short, it's probably legal, but certainly not right.

Unknown

If it's like most online games, you don't own anything, you're basically paying to play with their toys. It's more like renting.

Unknown

Depends on the country you're in. In the UK, for example, you would have to prove that what they've done is "unreasonable". You certainly couldn't say it's unreasonable for you to expect them to alter him but were he changed so drastically as to be essentially different in purpose (read nerfed really hard) then you could possibly make a case.

OFC far more trouble than it's worth unless you were living in whichever country D3 are registered in as a company and had something akin to the UK small claims court where you can be seen without much in the way of fees.

Bottom line: May not be but probably is and even if it weren't legal under consumer law there's no way you're pursuing it over the amount of money you've spent on Magneto directly (as only direct cover buys would potentially be applicable as everything else is sale of a chance to obtain him and you happened to get him which means the cover packs functioned as intended).

If it makes you REALLY unhappy your best bet is complain to D3 directly, get nowhere, then complain to the service you purchased your HP through but that's costing you your mpq account even if it works, which it may not.

_RiO_

bonfire01 wrote:

Depends on the country you're in. In the UK, for example, you would have to prove that what they've done is "unreasonable". You certainly couldn't say it's unreasonable for you to expect them to alter him but were he changed so drastically as to be essentially different in purpose (read nerfed really hard) then you could possibly make a case.

OFC far more trouble than it's worth unless you were living in whichever country D3 are registered in as a company and had something akin to the UK small claims court where you can be seen without much in the way of fees.

Bottom line: May not be but probably is and even if it weren't legal under consumer law there's no way you're pursuing it over the amount of money you've spent on Magneto directly (as only direct cover buys would potentially be applicable as everything else is sale of a chance to obtain him and you happened to get him which means the cover packs functioned as intended).

If it makes you REALLY unhappy your best bet is complain to D3 directly, get nowhere, then complain to the service you purchased your HP through but that's costing you your mpq account even if it works, which it may not.

TL;DR 'the only way to win is not to pay'
Sad truth ...

scottee

If you pay full price for a video and the next week they shut down the servers and you can't play anymore, no, you don't have any recourse.

In the case of MPQ, I understand people don't have their favorite/powerful characters nerfed, but balance is a GOOD thing. If the two choices were between balancing characters or never adjusting a character's stats, I'd go with balancing every time.

Unknown

It does depend greatly on what country you're in, but my understanding is that changing the characters is legal. The rational is that you don't gain any actual ownership of anything, digital or otherwise. You just have the capability to use certain aspects of an evolving game. If they shut down their servers tomorrow, they don't owe anyone anything. The nail in the coffin as far as legal recourse goes is the fact that anything you "buy" is done so with virtual currency earned for free by playing the game. If you put actual money into the game, they owe you a certain amount of currency (HP); after that, whatever you do with your HP is just part of playing the game.

As a side note, I will be really disappointed when they nerf magneto for the same reason I'm ok with them nerfing him: he really is broken. Pairing him with Patch (or other strike tile generators) changes the whole dynamic of the game.
I like to take advantage of it when I can, but if they want balanced characters, they have to address that some time.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

If you pay full price for a video and the next week they shut down the servers and you can't play anymore, no, you don't have any recourse.

In the case of MPQ, I understand people don't have their favorite/powerful characters nerfed, but balance is a GOOD thing. If the two choices were between balancing characters or never adjusting a character's stats, I'd go with balancing every time.

But they don't give a damn about balance. They want to screw the old characters you spent money on so you spend money on the new **** they keep pushing out. If the devs cared about balance x force would have gotten his buff ages ago, rags would still be usable, and dd wouldn't completely suck. They would buff weaker guys and pump out stronger new characters. I agree with your desire for a balanced game, where each character is different but all 3* for example are equally usable, but don't let them fool you into thinking that's what the devs are trying to make.

Unknown

Your car analogy sucks.

It's more like playing in a softball league and they ban your special alloy, titanium bat mid-season. If you still want to play in THEIR league, you need to play by their rules. Just because you spent money to join the league up front, doesn't entitle you to any refund just because they changed one minor rule.




Speaking of foreign cars, they actually DO nerf their entry-level models. They don't want their performance to be near their higher-ticket models, so they intentional neuter them. That's why people take them to custom shops where they restore all the performance they car can actually produce.

Unknown

Is it illegal to swap and alter their intellectual property? Almost certainly not.

D3 needs to perform the Magneto refactor so that he doesn't overshadow and make useless future releases. It, of course, gets a lot harder when the game develops and acquires a lot more moving parts. I've only been playing... not even 15 weeks, but I can see from first hand experience that Magneto can get a bit degenerate due to his potential to generate cascades for a minimal investment, which can then get returned off those cascades. Strike tiles from any source only further inflame the situation.

Let's just hope D3 doesn't gank him as badly as Loki (which happened before I started playing. Or Ragnarok (same). Or Spider-Man.

Bacon Pants

Here's the long and the short of it.

Bend over and take it.

If you don't like it, move on. I received a nice taking after the Spider-Man nerf...Others could say the same for the Rags nerf, the 2star Wolvie nerf, ect ect. And personally, I am happy Magneto is being hit with the nerf bat and I hope he's hit hard. So hard that he is as useless as Spider-Man now is. I don't have a viable Magneto, and hopefully I will never have a need for him.

scottee

Typhon13 wrote:

scottee wrote:

If you pay full price for a video and the next week they shut down the servers and you can't play anymore, no, you don't have any recourse.

In the case of MPQ, I understand people don't have their favorite/powerful characters nerfed, but balance is a GOOD thing. If the two choices were between balancing characters or never adjusting a character's stats, I'd go with balancing every time.

But they don't give a damn about balance. They want to screw the old characters you spent money on so you spend money on the new **** they keep pushing out. If the devs cared about balance x force would have gotten his buff ages ago, rags would still be usable, and dd wouldn't completely suck. They would buff weaker guys and pump out stronger new characters. I agree with your desire for a balanced game, where each character is different but all 3* for example are equally usable, but don't let them fool you into thinking that's what the devs are trying to make.

You are making many assumptions. They are a list of characters that are in line for balancing. X-Force is one of them. I also think it's presumptuous to say they don't care about balance. They clearly are *trying* to balance; otherwise Rags, Loki, Spidey, and Thorverine would never have been adjusted. And CMags wouldn't be up next. Some they nerfed too bad, and some just right. I think balancing is harder than most think.

I also think conspiracy theories such as "They want to screw the old characters you spent money on so you spend money on the new **** they keep pushing out," are complete conjecture and most likely inaccurate. The main characters people have complained about getting nerfed were basically broken. Which is why many invested in them, but which is also why they needed to be nerfed. So it goes both ways.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

If you pay full price for a video and the next week they shut down the servers and you can't play anymore, no, you don't have any recourse.

In the case of MPQ, I understand people don't have their favorite/powerful characters nerfed, but balance is a GOOD thing. If the two choices were between balancing characters or never adjusting a character's stats, I'd go with balancing every time.

funbalance is the mean

profit making is the end

Unknown

kubrick wrote:

scottee wrote:

If you pay full price for a video and the next week they shut down the servers and you can't play anymore, no, you don't have any recourse.

In the case of MPQ, I understand people don't have their favorite/powerful characters nerfed, but balance is a GOOD thing. If the two choices were between balancing characters or never adjusting a character's stats, I'd go with balancing every time.

funbalance is the mean

profit making is the end

This. Everything the devs do is to increase profits, why would anyone assume the nerfs are different?

Unknown

Is this your first online game where characters can be changed at the producers discretion?

Your example is somewhat of a poor one. It is closer to the likes of buying a piece of software, then it gets updated. Then the update made it worse.

Like Impulse said, you don't "own" any of the digital property in games. Rather it is a "rental".

Unknown

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

I keep hearing about how Classic Magneto is going to be nerfed soon. If this is true I will NOT be happy, ( as well as a lot of others ).

Now I'm wondering if it's even legal. If it's not something like a bait and switch or fraud?

Let me give an example...... If I go buy a 2014 BMW, then the car salesman gives me a 1995 Ford after taking my money, then the salesman is breaking the law, right?

So here's the deal. I got one cover of each color for C Mag. Two of which came from cover 10 packs that i bought. Then I bought a whole bunch of HP and ISO 8 to level him up. As did a lot of other players as well. The main reason I spent soooo much money on C Mag is because he is so powerful. In the comic universe, there have been times when Magneto was considered THE most powerful mutant on the planet. Therefore, he should be powerful in the game.

The Classic Magneto I have now is the one I paid a couple hundred bucks for, and the Classic Magneto I have now is the one I want.

Like with the BMW example, if I buy a BMW, then I want a BMW. Dont sell it to me then sneak into my driveway the next day to take it away and leave me a 95 Ford in it's place and try to tell me it's been " Funbalanced " !!!!

D3 sold me a specific Classic Magneto with specific powers. That is what I piad for. How can it be legal for them to take it away now?

JJ

Two things wrong with arguments you've made.

1: You don't "buy" classic magneto, you buy Hero Points which is a virtual product that you can trade in game to get other virtual goods.

2: Take your car example. You buy your new luxury BMW, drive it around and have a blast. Your BMW gets you free satellite radio and you get to reap the benefits. Time goes by and it turns out that the BMW getting free satellite radio was a mistake in design and is angering people who are stuck driving Audi's (also owned by BMW) who don't have a fully loaded BMW. They get mad at BMW and start switching to Ferrari. BMW doesn't want to lose more customers so it does a factory recall and give you another luxury BMW but loaded with different features. You still have a BMW and it's still a nice car, it just doesn't have free satellite radio. If you don't like your new BMW you'll be given a chance to sell it for more than it normally goes for.

And if you're still not happy, there's always Ferrari.

I don't see why you're getting upset over changes that haven't been announced yet. Relax, take a deep breath, and wait to see what happens. I've recently been on the receiving end of the Spider-Man nerf. Is spider-man still as broken as he was in his prime? Heck no. Is he still a good character? Darn right. Is he still powerful? I think so.

So you've paid money for your CMags, I paid money for my Spidey. I knew the nerf bat was looming in the future somewhere, heck they announced it back in January or so (along with x-force, invisible woman, cmags and others). I still reaped the rewards of having an overpowered character which got me tons of covers I wouldn't have stood a chance at getting otherwise.

TL/DR: CMags nerf is old news. Abuse him while you can and get your moneys worth. Don't cry in your beer when his changes are announced; wait and see how he plays when they go live. You may like him more.

Unknown

Unless you can find an internal memo that says something like "Okay guys let's release a way overpowered character and make some money and then instantly nerf him hahaha!" you probably don't have much recourse.

Although there are a lot of suspicious P2W-like characters who probably will be nerfed eventually, they're certainly all within the range of what can be explained by incompentence, and incompentence is not against the law.

Unknown

Let's take a look at the reality of the situation in the United States.

No lawyer will take your case unless you shell out a retainer far larger than any sum of money you have spent on the game - even if you have spent thousands. Even if you find the dumbest "you don't pay unless we win" lawyer on the planet - the only one willing to take your case - you will still have to pay thousands in "fees." Win or lose, you pay for all court filings, copies made, etc. And yes, you will pay thousands of dollars for photocopies. Even the dumbest lawyer on the planet is not a complete idiot.

You -might- skip that on the .0001 chance that the lawyers certify a class action suit against the publisher. If they do and they get a settlement or victory, you might receive a cheque for $5.95 three years from today.

TLDR: Drugs are cheaper and more fulfilling in the long run.

Unknown

Ghast wrote:

Let's take a look at the reality of the situation in the United States.

No lawyer will take your case unless you shell out a retainer far larger than any sum of money you have spent on the game - even if you have spent thousands. Even if you find the dumbest "you don't pay unless we win" lawyer on the planet - the only one willing to take your case - you will still have to pay thousands in "fees." Win or lose, you pay for all court filings, copies made, etc. And yes, you will pay thousands of dollars for photocopies. Even the dumbest lawyer on the planet is not a complete idiot.

You -might- skip that on the .0001 chance that the lawyers certify a class action suit against the publisher. If they do and they get a settlement or victory, you might receive a cheque for $5.95 three years from today.

TLDR: Drugs are cheaper and more fulfilling in the long run.

I think in China someone successfully sued for buying some sword for thousands of dollars and had it taken away from him.

That said I think in that case it was taken away from him specifically because he bought it from a 3rd party site and it was ruled you can't just pull the old 'we own everything and nothing you have has value' when anyone with a clue knows these things actually have a lot of value, so it won't even apply here.

If you can find evidence that a certain character is nerfed specifically to screw with people you can probably win, but I don't know how you'd ever be able to find that kind of stuff.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's eventually a class action suit on something of this nature, but that'd probably have to happen on something pretty major, like say a massive server rollback, or something that completely destroyed the economy. It'd have to be like say everyone's Iso8/HP got zeroed out due to a bug and D3 refuses to give any of it back. You can't expect to sue something that can easily be defended as 'whoever designed this character was incompetent so we had to fix it', and that'd apply very easily to any nerfs.

Unknown

If you're talking about the case I think you are, you've got it all wrong.

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/64-yea ... ual-sword/

She lost her expensive item, and it was all on her.

HailMary

Typhon13 wrote:

This. Everything the devs do is to increase profits, why would anyone assume the nerfs are different?

If you really believe "everything the devs do is to increase profits", then "they just did [insert thing I personally don't like] just to make more money" is pretty much the laziest attempt at criticism ever. Conversely, if you don't believe "everything the devs do is to increase profits", then you'll need to actually justify why this particular move is a dastardly money-grubbing move using... any evidence at all.

Casually pretending that "the devs want to increase profits" is equivalent to "[the devs] want to screw the old characters you spent money on so you spend money on the new **** they keep pushing out." is essentially saying "I believe everyone reading this thread is an idiot," and that's just impolite.