Kangveil

fractalvisions

I expect most of you are aware of the benefits of Kangveil. For those not, the quick summary is that, if you have at least 3 team-up AP and hit by other a certain amount of damage, Darkveil will consume 3 team-up AP and send the targeted opponent away once per turn. Then Kang will regenerate that team-up AP so you can do the same the next turn.

At least that's how it's supposed to happen. I find it very hit or miss whether Kang regenerates that AP. Given how popular this team is, I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this. Does this bug only affect me? Or is it not a bug? Am I just doing something wrong? It doesn't seem to make a difference what order the characters are in the line-up. I typically have Deathlok as a third, but don't see any reason that would make a difference.

entrailbucket

@fractalvisions said:
I expect most of you are aware of the benefits of Kangveil. For those not, the quick summary is that, if you have at least 3 team-up AP and hit by other a certain amount of damage, Darkveil will consume 3 team-up AP and send the targeted opponent away once per turn. Then Kang will regenerate that team-up AP so you can do the same the next turn.

At least that's how it's supposed to happen. I find it very hit or miss whether Kang regenerates that AP. Given how popular this team is, I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this. Does this bug only affect me? Or is it not a bug? Am I just doing something wrong? It doesn't seem to make a difference what order the characters are in the line-up. I typically have Deathlok as a third, but don't see any reason that would make a difference.

Sounds like a bug to me. Try reporting it?

I'm not sure Kang is supposed to be returning that AP to you (he says he recovers AP from "destroy" or "steal" effects and Darkveil says "spend"), so the fix might be that he changes to never return the AP, instead of doing it sometimes.

LennoxHC

This is a known bug, and I think it has been reported. I've seen it mentioned on Reddit and on Discord, but I don't think any fix has ever been pushed forward for it.

KangVeil is probably my most used team, and I haven't been able to figure out the pattern for when Kang does not rebate the teamup AP. Kang sometimes rebates TU AP I make during a match on my turn, sometimes he doesn't.

In most cases, if I use boosts to start a match with 3 TU AP, then the rebate will work through the rest of the match. Otherwise, I try to get around the bug by just trying to collect as many TU AP as I can.

Don't forget the other half of Darkveil's purple passive: Totally negate incoming damage AND send the offender away. Like either half is great on its own, and combined together for the cost of 3 TU AP makes a really useful ability. It feels like playing blue counterspells in Magic The Gathering.

LavaManLee

Does Darkveil need to be either at a certain level or below a certain level to work? Meaning, is there a min or max you need them to be at? Thanks!

Timemachinego

@LavaManLee said:
Does Darkveil need to be either at a certain level or below a certain level to work? Meaning, is there a min or max you need them to be at? Thanks!

They have the typical problem of (all?) damage-taking power triggers in that the threshold scales upwards with level. I keep a 5 purple base level Darkveil because of this.

LennoxHC

I just checked my Darkveil. At level 312, it takes 1507 damage to trigger the purple passive. Going against baby 5* champs and higher, any on color match should basically be enough to trigger the passive.

The yellow repeater's primary utility is in the AP gain which doesn't change with level.

So yeah, levels don't make much difference. I champed her mainly so she has a little more health to withstand AOE, which is her biggest weakness. KangVeil is really, really ineffective against Frankie Nova teams. They are super useful against Juggernaut-Sam teams because Darkveil's purple passive will exile Juggernaut before his AOE bonus fires.

I think, in the ascended winners and losers thread, someone noted that the damage threshhold gets pretty high once you've ascended her, but the numbers on her other powers get high enough that they become more useful.

WhiteBomber

I didn't spend a lot of time with this team for Dark since I don't like gambling on the team ups, or spending boosts on them. I spent a few seconds with it today, and every time Kang didn't refund, it happened to be while someone else was returning from away... could be a complete coincidence though.

You very likely should want to get him to at least 370 since it doesn't go up much at all at 4star. If I remember correctly, the threshold goes up to 13k ish to send away at starting 5star. Considering he is a very versatile character, I think the rest of your roster and playstyle should determine if you ascend. IE: the more high level 5 stars you have, the more likely it is you want to ascend since the additional damage reduction might not offset the additional health, match damage, SAP strength and surprising amount of damage he can also do.

I currently use him in 3 different ways (MM flashbacks arising)...

1. Conditional win / amazing defense: Continually send high priority targets away to win w/ Kang or protect your team.
2. Yellow champion / AP Queen: He can 100% start with 7 yellow AP, this opens many doors to awesome teammates who can either win on turn 1, or get the protection going enough to shut down the big guns. Pairing him with other yellow users can quickly lead to near infinites on his yellow, generating all of your strong colors.
3. SAP Spam / DPT: When he returns from away, he actually puts out quite a few strikes and protects, combined with his survivability, these can add up and benefit other SAP specialists. If ascended, his damage boost for people returning is roughly 30+K (combined with strikes and piercing protects, not too bad).

Of the 3 uses above, number 1 is the only scenario you might want to leave him at 4 star. I used to lean heavily in to keeping him at 4, but ever since they removed FCar, I have been using him for the other 2 scenarios far more, especially with scenario 2 shutting down basically everything at the highest tiers of SIM.

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber said:
I didn't spend a lot of time with this team for Dark since I don't like gambling on the team ups, or spending boosts on them. I spent a few seconds with it today, and every time Kang didn't refund, it happened to be while someone else was returning from away... could be a complete coincidence though.

You very likely should want to get him to at least 370 since it doesn't go up much at all at 4star. If I remember correctly, the threshold goes up to 13k ish to send away at starting 5star. Considering he is a very versatile character, I think the rest of your roster and playstyle should determine if you ascend. IE: the more high level 5 stars you have, the more likely it is you want to ascend since the additional damage reduction might not offset the additional health, match damage, SAP strength and surprising amount of damage he can also do.

I currently use him in 3 different ways (MM flashbacks arising)...

1. Conditional win / amazing defense: Continually send high priority targets away to win w/ Kang or protect your team.
2. Yellow champion / AP Queen: He can 100% start with 7 yellow AP, this opens many doors to awesome teammates who can either win on turn 1, or get the protection going enough to shut down the big guns. Pairing him with other yellow users can quickly lead to near infinites on his yellow, generating all of your strong colors.
3. SAP Spam / DPT: When he returns from away, he actually puts out quite a few strikes and protects, combined with his survivability, these can add up and benefit other SAP specialists. If ascended, his damage boost for people returning is roughly 30+K (combined with strikes and piercing protects, not too bad).

Of the 3 uses above, number 1 is the only scenario you might want to leave him at 4 star. I used to lean heavily in to keeping him at 4, but ever since they removed FCar, I have been using him for the other 2 scenarios far more, especially with scenario 2 shutting down basically everything at the highest tiers of SIM.

Awesome write-up. There are a few characters like this, where when you ascend them they stop being able to do that one thing but gain different sorts of utility. Darkveil is definitely one of them!

bluewolf

Kang only rebates the AP if the last match you made (moved) was a color match.

With Darkveil you end up wanting teamup AP so you’ll often match that last, but that means he won’t rebate it.

Choices are to use enough boosts (burning an AP all plus 2 TU AP) to get the TU, then match any color / not TU.

Option 2 is take your time hoping for things like a cascade or match 4/5 to get the 3 TU ap.

I often use Chasm with them to give me an extra turn to grab enough TU ap before the enemy can make a match and start Away-ing themselves.

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber there is a super fun repeater based team to build with Darkveil and Toni Ho (not sure who the third is, maybe it's just Gorr).

Ed_Dragonrider

Glad to find this thread, with the Double iso anniversary I just now managed to champ my Darkveil. I've been trialing this duo with rather mixed results and wondering why it seems to work well sometimes other times less so.

What are the best supports for this duo, and who would be the best third? I'm mostly trying to get the send everyone away type of win and the third isn't always up to me, but I could probably still attach a support.
Thanks!

LennoxHC

I put Destroyer Gun (minimum rank 4) on Kang to get extra teamup AP on matches, and SP//DR (min rank 3) on Darkveil to start with extra yellow AP to fire her yellow at the start.

I usually put Refreshment Cart on the 3rd. My usual strategy is to spam Darkveil's yellow to build AP. The Cart then adds snack countdowns which feed Kang blue AP on expiration.

My most common 3rd is Chasm. The stun gets you more time to collect all the teamup AP you need for Darkveil. Also, Chasm's black self-harm power can then trigger Darkveil's purple passive. I usually need to get 4 Abyss tiles on the board so Chasm's black triggers twice to reach the damage threshhold.

WhiteBomber

@entrailbucket said:
@WhiteBomber there is a super fun repeater based team to build with Darkveil and Toni Ho (not sure who the third is, maybe it's just Gorr).

Funny enough I was just playing with Gorr Toni. For Dark Toni though, I like DareDevil4 because of the safety net. Gorr starts you with the repeaters, so by turn one you are doing some nice damage, but if the team is really strong, you're about to eat a lot more.

With DarkdareToni, you can start the match by throwing Darks repeater twice, and there is a decent chance you trigger more yellow or at minimum be setup to get the infinite going faster. You can also start with the 2x stun if someone is a real problem.

Cart on Tony means you're also generating a ton of blue, which is her bread and butter. You can stun or just go straight to big damage. I just did the last available tower fight with them, and Toni's yellow cast did like 400k. They also exited that big fight with Toni only missing a little bit of health.

Deathlok a cool option too for obvious AP gain and techno buff reasons, but also, his black buffs the hell out of all the tick damage, and Toni's blue heal can offset the team damage.

WhiteBomber

I'm actually finishing my favorited Peni support this month to better support all of these fun yellow machine teams... has me seriously considering ascending Dark next instead of Betsy.

Gymp28

@entrailbucket said:
@WhiteBomber there is a super fun repeater based team to build with Darkveil and Toni Ho (not sure who the third is, maybe it's just Gorr).

For me the third is Agatha, as her purple repeater tiles get wildly out of control after a few triggerings of Toni’s tech support repeater.
If you can start with 12 yellow AP it’s pretty much a turn 0 winfinite (though slow, and somewhat down to the chance of what AP Darkveil generates you with their repeater)

WhiteBomber

@Gymp28 said:

@entrailbucket said:
@WhiteBomber there is a super fun repeater based team to build with Darkveil and Toni Ho (not sure who the third is, maybe it's just Gorr).

For me the third is Agatha, as her purple repeater tiles get wildly out of control after a few triggerings of Toni’s tech support repeater.
If you can start with 12 yellow AP it’s pretty much a turn 0 winfinite (though slow, and somewhat down to the chance of what AP Darkveil generates you with their repeater)

Ooo, yeah. She already has good turn 1 infinites, but that synergy is really good, and Agatha will true heal everyone.

entrailbucket

Hmmm, Hobgoblin's blue power also hits repeaters. There might be something with him too.