Sidewinder (Seth Voelker) 4* - Rebalance #2 Dev Notes

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Comments

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,799 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Scorpion201 said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Scorpion201 said:
    How about a no on Polaris and yes on mighty thor, she the worst..

    Funny I was thinking the other way round.

    Either way it's going to be glorious when nerf hammer comes down on mighty thor or what's left of her.

    As long as she gets replaced by a similar very easy win in PvP I will be happy!

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,514 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Scorpion201 said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Scorpion201 said:
    How about a no on Polaris and yes on mighty thor, she the worst..

    Funny I was thinking the other way round.

    Either way it's going to be glorious when nerf hammer comes down on mighty thor or what's left of her.

    As long as she gets replaced by a similar very easy win in PvP I will be happy!

    We just had that with Sidewinder!

    KGB

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,799 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Scorpion201 said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Scorpion201 said:
    How about a no on Polaris and yes on mighty thor, she the worst..

    Funny I was thinking the other way round.

    Either way it's going to be glorious when nerf hammer comes down on mighty thor or what's left of her.

    As long as she gets replaced by a similar very easy win in PvP I will be happy!

    We just had that with Sidewinder!

    KGB

    No I meant Jane is easy to defeat and I want more tasty snacks like her to accompany Shang Chi. The Sidewinder teams I fought were not easy at all!

  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,310 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yeah not crying for people who wasted resources on a character that was obviously broken. We have seen this pattern before in the game.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,594 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 5 April 2025, 21:27

    @Warbringa said:
    Yeah not crying for people who wasted resources on a character that was obviously broken. We have seen this pattern before in the game.

    When did we ever see it this fast? And definitely not with these devs. Sidewinder was so easy to defat compared to, for example, Bishop. Sidewinder was absolutely beatable; very poor at defense. They beat this poor guy to death for no reason whatsoever.

    A nerf? Sure. But total annihilation? Not necessary.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,594 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 6 April 2025, 00:41

    As mentioned before, totally fine with him having a nerf. It was quicker than normal, and communication was awful, but totally understand the nerf.

    My main beef though is why did the nerf have to be so vicious? They could have done one (lower %) or the other (TU drain) and Sidewinder might have at least been average. But they didn't need to just kill him off. Instead it kind of gave the middle finger to any of the noobs (especially) who may have spent money on the character.

    Everyone gets all high and mighty about "they got what they deserved" but without people spending money this game goes away. Wouldn't it have done the same if they had just nerfed him a little instead of making him such a weakling. Throw a bone at the people (especially new people) and make them feel a bit better about spending money rather than making them possibly never want to play again?

    All the devs had to do was tone him down a bit more and at least he could have a use for those who still have him. Us vets can shrug it off and it doesn't matter won bit. Heck, I have my 50 wins in Simulator already with no problem. But I guess I'm empathetic to the new players who may have actually spent money and never will want to play the game again.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,474 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Warbringa said:
    Yeah not crying for people who wasted resources on a character that was obviously broken. We have seen this pattern before in the game.

    When did we ever see it this fast? And definitely not with these devs. Sidewinder was so easy to defat compared to, for example, Bishop. Sidewinder was absolutely beatable; very poor at defense. They beat this poor guy to death for no reason whatsoever.

    A nerf? Sure. But total annihilation? Not necessary.

    We’ve definitely never seen a nerf this fast to a meta character other than pre-release stuff. This should be applauded rather than scorned and should be the gold standard moving forward. Tell us BEFORE we can spend resources on a character. Then make the change as quickly as you can once the requisite data is collected and testing is completed. You have entrail saying that nerf didn’t happen soon enough and Lava saying it happened too soon. Goes to show you can’t please everyone. But the communication before people had a chance to spend resources was the important part.

    I have no problems with how this mistake was corrected. Communication before it went live for people who use him in PVE is the only thing I’d of changed, but they acknowledged that and said it was a mistake.

    If they're going to work this quickly from now on then that's good. But they haven't, ever, and we had no reason to expect that they would this time.

    I'd have liked to see some more explicit communication -- what we got was something a little mushy like "we'll probably do something else to him eventually." If they knew what they were doing they should have told us more specifically what they were doing, and roughly when. It should also have shown up in the game.

    This is a good sign though. If they're looking at a character, they should let us know that, way in advance. I'd like to see a watch list -- other games do this.

  • Bustapup
    Bustapup Posts: 44 Just Dropped In

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Warbringa said:
    Yeah not crying for people who wasted resources on a character that was obviously broken. We have seen this pattern before in the game.

    When did we ever see it this fast? And definitely not with these devs. Sidewinder was so easy to defat compared to, for example, Bishop. Sidewinder was absolutely beatable; very poor at defense. They beat this poor guy to death for no reason whatsoever.

    A nerf? Sure. But total annihilation? Not necessary.

    Are you kidding? He was teleporting away and with leapfrog he was then invisible. When you're up against and team where his buff was OP you literally didn't have time to start targeting him before your were dead. He needed to be MASSIVELY nerfed so good riddance. Characters like him (and he's not the only one) take the fun out of the game and just make it a frustrating experience

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,799 Chairperson of the Boards

    To the question of why did they act so fast and hit so hard is coz on the face of it this guy improved every single other character in the game. If you think about it that way the effect on the game from top to bottom was seismic meaning everybody would need to have this guy. That didn't apply to Chasm, Bishop, Gambit or the others nearly all of who were a late game issue. Probably only OML had such a wide ranging effect on the game especially at lower levels but nowhere close to Sidewinder because every single character has to match tiles.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 6,055 Chairperson of the Boards

    My main pushback on timing and how things played out is if they knew he would be nerfed significantly and quickly then they should have left ascension off until they finished it.

    That one simple step would have been an effective warning signal.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,594 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 6 April 2025, 12:49

    @Bustapup said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Warbringa said:
    Yeah not crying for people who wasted resources on a character that was obviously broken. We have seen this pattern before in the game.

    When did we ever see it this fast? And definitely not with these devs. Sidewinder was so easy to defat compared to, for example, Bishop. Sidewinder was absolutely beatable; very poor at defense. They beat this poor guy to death for no reason whatsoever.

    A nerf? Sure. But total annihilation? Not necessary.

    Are you kidding? He was teleporting away and with leapfrog he was then invisible. When you're up against and team where his buff was OP you literally didn't have time to start targeting him before your were dead. He needed to be MASSIVELY nerfed so good riddance. Characters like him (and he's not the only one) take the fun out of the game and just make it a frustrating experience

    And that's your opinion. I have mine.

    Nope, not kidding you at all. Had no problem taking care of him. There was no need to kill him THAT much.

    And again, I never ever have said he shouldn't have been nerfed. He just did not need to become unusable.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,745 Chairperson of the Boards

    He is usable with the right partners and supports. Just did a t20 placement using him.
    He, like almost every other character on the roster, is no longer universally usable. You need to build a team around him.
    You can use him. He works very well. He just no longer carries every character on the roster.

  • CoxLargo
    CoxLargo Posts: 59 Match Maker

    You make a great character useless. You should have nerf his invicibility/away skill, not what You did.

    Well sad to see a helpfull character go to waste

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,799 Chairperson of the Boards

    @CoxLargo said:
    You make a great character useless. You should have nerf his invicibility/away skill, not what You did.

    Well sad to see a helpfull character go to waste

    You want to Nerf his actual point of being power? Why even bother having him them? His super power is teleporting.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,594 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 7 April 2025, 00:19

    @dianetics said:
    He is usable with the right partners and supports. Just did a t20 placement using him.
    He, like almost every other character on the roster, is no longer universally usable. You need to build a team around him.
    You can use him. He works very well. He just no longer carries every character on the roster.

    I honestly am curious. What team/supports do you play him on consistently that lets you get t20 placement? And what level are your characters at you are using? Assuming in CL10? I have tried him with many different combinations and he is nothing more than a paperweight.

    I see him zero times anymore in Simulation or in the two PVPs I have been in since his nerf. So I really am curious what you are doing that is successful but nobody else has found it yet? Usually if something works, there are copycats everywhere but I haven't seen it.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,745 Chairperson of the Boards

    Sidewinder with Vintage Shield
    Okoye with Royal Talon Fighter
    Mephisto with Omnipotence City

    Constantly have 8-15 team up ap.
    Chase team up ap then yellow. On team up match Sidewinders bonus damage his hard then Mephistos hits twice.
    Melted the challenge node in three or four turns.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,594 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 7 April 2025, 10:49

    @dianetics said:
    Sidewinder with Vintage Shield
    Okoye with Royal Talon Fighter
    Mephisto with Omnipotence City

    Constantly have 8-15 team up ap.
    Chase team up ap then yellow. On team up match Sidewinders bonus damage his hard then Mephistos hits twice.
    Melted the challenge node in three or four turns.

    My apologies as I thought you were referring to PVP when you said T20. Totally appreciate the info on the PvE team.

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