What happened to the love for nerds?

Sarah

The previous developers used to be really helpful about providing information and data to our community projects as seen in this article: https://marvelpuzzlequest.com/meet-octal9-mtgpq-info/

Why do they refuse to help us now? It is very obvious that the current dev team finds no value outside of YouTube videos and I think that’s really short-sighted.

I’d like to understand the reasoning behind it @Magic:PQ Support Team and @IceIX

TheDude1

@Sarah said:
The previous developers used to be really helpful about providing information and data to our community projects as seen in this article: https://marvelpuzzlequest.com/meet-octal9-mtgpq-info/

Why do they refuse to help us now? It is very obvious that the current dev team finds no value outside of YouTube videos and I think that’s really short-sighted.

I’d like to understand the reasoning behind it @Magic:PQ Support Team and @IceIX

This article was from 7 years ago. Octal stopped updating the database long before Webcore took over (Ikoria), and there was no substantive discussion on restarting it, which I believe was the impetus for the wiki. Why bring this up now, with framing the question that the current devs “now” “refuse” to help? In your interest of providing data, have you had any prior discussion of picking up where Octal left off? What evidence do you have that Webcore was even involved in this decision, or have actively rejected this approach? To be constructive, are you (or someone youv’e identified) offering your services to take on this responsibility?

Sarah

I’m so glad you ask @TheDude1

You are correct that this article is very old and octal is no longer maintaining his old database. If you’ve noticed broken image links on the wiki, this is why.

We were able to coordinate a bit of a handover between octal9 and Larz70 but, without the help that Octal used to get from the devs, all cards must now be uploaded manually, individually by from screenshots Larz takes in game. If you are on a discord server that uses his card-lookup bot, you may have noticed that it sometimes falls behind with new releases.

In addition to the card lookup bot, Larz also has to manually upload the scores to his leaderboard—if you are on a discord bot and the rankings have seemed inaccurate recently it’s because he has been on holiday and unable to make time to do so.

All of this information—which is so helpful for us players—is crowdsourced from players. We have tried many times to open lines of communication with the current dev team. We have made impassioned arguments that the season leaderboard is a form of content creation. We can help them realize a long unfulfilled promise of seasonal leaderboards and more meaningful rankings but it would be so much easier with a little help and support.

For the last year @Magic:PQ Support Team has been incredibly clear; they are only interested in talking to people who make videos. Everyone else may as well be poop on their shoes.

TheDude1

Thank you Sarah, but these issues you’ve highlighted predate Webcore’s takeover from Oktagon.

Ikoria was the last database update, which was May 2020. The last I can find any reference to a seasonal leaderboard was this post, also from May 2020: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/922012 Note that even then, Oktagon explicitly said it was not part of their plans to develop. This Reddit post’s timestamp (https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGPuzzleQuest/comments/ptohwn/i_created_a_website_for_mtgpq_coalitions/?rdt=42958 ) says Larz began his scoreboard 3 years ago (so sometime early 2022 at latest). Webcore didn’t take over until September 2023.

You’ve made crystal clear over many, many posts that you take serious issue with Webcore’s communication strategy, but this beef seems to be with Oktagon and is several years too late. I don’t understand why anyone would publicly demand that Webcore answer for a decision that wasn’t theirs, with technical functionality that likely wasn’t passed forward to them, and they’ve made no promises to develop on their own. If you want to continue repeatedly posting the same complaint that you’re being ignored when it’s more likely that their priorities just don’t match yours, have at it, but be fair and at least make the topic relevant and timely.

Sarah

I think it’s very clever of you to spot this @TheDude1 because I feel like a lot of people struggle to see the connection. I see a lot of similarities with this last year’s communications levels from Webcore and the stop of in Oktagon’s communications when they check out of the game.

Do you find it unusual that behavior I disliked from the previous developers is also annoying me with the current team? As far as I am concerned, the end result is much the same no matter which studio name is on the title screen.

TheDude1

You did not indicate that you disliked this change from prior developers - your first post was framed as "previous developers used to do [X]... Current developers refuse!" while completely omitting that the change was by the previous developers, and have nothing to do with the current. There is nothing for Webcore to rationalize to you because it was not their call to rescind and they have made no promises to pursue. And Oktagon was certainly not "checked out" in May 2020, slightly closer to when they took over from Hibernium (September 2017) than when they turned over to Webcore (September 2023).

Do I find this complaint unusual? In this context, yes, because of that glaring omission of the timeline. It reads as another gripe in the one-size-fits-all framework of "the devs only like Youtube creators" when that basis is completely irrelevant, except if the argument is that Webcore isn't justifying their future development strategy to you directly.

Again, to your prior requests of using tangible data in discussion, who are you proposing would be the one(s) responsible for updating and maintaining a card database? As of right now, the wiki is only loosely maintained, with incomplete information and numerous pages left out-of-date. I would think this is a much easier process to maintain since it is crowdsourced, than a full database/website requiring specific technical skills. Also, how much visitation does the wiki get, so there is a sense of what the potential database usage actually is relative to the overall player base? And what is your proposed benefit for a seasonal leaderboard beyond a nice-to-know side quest?

Sarah

Sorry it's taken so long for me to respond @TheDude1 I was busy with organizing new players into active teams and other mundane administrative tasks. It's not as glamorous as a youtube video but people seem to find value with my efforts nonetheless.

It's difficult to tell exactly what your point is so please correct me if I'm wrong but your basic premise seems to be "who cares?" and I'm not sure how to explain why a seasonal leaderboard might be important to people. Shteev did a good job explaining why competition is important to him on a youtube video recently--perhaps that might be easier for you to digest? A lot of people seem to care very much about not only their own scores but how their scores compare to the scores of others and how the scores change from week to week.

Previously, the devs supplied Octal9 with the image files so that he could more easily upload them into his card catalogue and later into his wiki. When Octal retired from the game, Larz took over the card catalogue and a handful of people have attempted to keep the wiki up-to-date but we've lost a lot of long term players over the years and haven't brought in enough new players to replace them. I don't think this problem is isolated to the wiki team, it seems more of a game-wide trend.

Who cares, right? A lot of people seem to find it convenient to be able to look up cards in discord! Larz's bot is active in many of the communities I visit, perhaps even in a community you visit too?