Finishing the season pass too quickly

DarthPseudonym

I'm not a fan of the new way they're doing the seasonal quests where they give points towards the Season Pass. I mean, I don't mind it in concept, but if you're hitting all the quest goals pretty consistently, you can easily have all the reward levels completed in two weeks, which feels kinda lame for the rest of the cycle.

Anyone else feel the same?

ETA: Since some people seem to be misinterpreting things -- I think it's fine and good to have a buffer so that you can get all the rewards while still skipping a few goals that are impossible or just annoying to achieve with your particular roster. If that means people who 100% the goals get done a bit early, that's totally fine. I'm complaining that the buffer is way too huge so that you can easily be completely done before you're even halfway through the season.

If the 100%ers got to the final prize three or four days ahead of the end of the event, that seems totally fine to me.

WilliamK1983

Yes, but then not having to complete a quest of use x, y, or z and stun, or strongest color, etc makes it all worth it.

Edit: I prefer the vault, better goodies hands down. I'll do whatever quests they want for those free prizes.

Ptahhotep

I would prefer it if we could either reset the pass or get vault tokens for points earned once the pass has been completed.

concillado

The purpose of quests is to "stay on target' and if that target is too easily achieved then it kinda destroys the purpose. Why should I battle on if their is no prize???

Blazpheme

Indeed, it is not nearly as satisfying as a full season vault, where you might miss that prize you've been eyeballing if you don't complete all the challenges. Even if you do keep earning past that point, you still get to redeem from the post-event vault. Whereas once you complete the season pass, any and all points earned from the challenges just vanish like Thanos-dust.

How about simply expanding the prize tiers to include more levels? Put some really tasty stuff at the top to keep us engaged through the whole season. It would work in the same fashion as the season vaults, to incentivize players to chase every point possible for the top prizes. And you could still offer point purchases (like last season) for players that missed a few here or there.

It doesn't really matter what the solution is, just give us something for the points we earn. Anything would be better than the big fat nothing we are getting right now...

BriMan2222

@Blazpheme said:
Indeed, it is not nearly as satisfying as a full season vault, where you might miss that prize you've been eyeballing if you don't complete all the challenges. Even if you do keep earning past that point, you still get to redeem from the post-event vault. Whereas once you complete the season pass, any and all points earned from the challenges just vanish like Thanos-dust.

How about simply expanding the prize tiers to include more levels? Put some really tasty stuff at the top to keep us engaged through the whole season. It would work in the same fashion as the season vaults, to incentivize players to chase every point possible for the top prizes. And you could still offer point purchases (like last season) for players that missed a few here or there.

It doesn't really matter what the solution is, just give us something for the points we earn. Anything would be better than the big fat nothing we are getting right now...

I'm pretty sure Sokun said that they are going to make it so excess points are converted into Iso. Not sure if they are planning to do that with this season pass, or this is just the plan for future season passes.

Phumade

Its a disappointing battlepass with a major critical flaw to be honest. Especially compared to best in class systems like EPIC games.

As a quick refresher. Epic battle passes are roughly 200 levels. The first 100 levels feature new content, but the 2nd 100 levels are exotic reskins of the new content. They also feature enough currency in the first 100 levels to rebuy the pass for future seasons. The back 1/2 is are exotic cosmetic unlocks. The key point is that even a noob level day 1 player can realistically expect to complete the first 100 levels and earn enough currency to rebuy the pass in a future season. Everything you earn in the 2nd 1/2 is just cosmetic "Flexes" that won't affect your ability to play or compete.

My complaint is that they haven't done the work for the 2nd half and the "season pass" is incomplete for end stage player. Let just look at how the Infinity Stones still drives high end player engagement, even though those supports are outclassed by releases like Eros arrow, Leap frong, Fantastica etc...

While I personally am indifferent to a "Silver Armour" Namor at level 200. There is more enough evidence to say that people will extend their play to achieve a meaningless cosmetic achievement. vs slapping a rotating rank 1 stone at level 200.

Borstock

I don't know what the solution is, but I kinda wish it would at least go away once completed. It just sits there, mocking me. "I'm still giving out prizes to some people, but noooot youuuuu."

entrailbucket

@Phumade said:
Its a disappointing battlepass with a major critical flaw to be honest. Especially compared to best in class systems like EPIC games.

As a quick refresher. Epic battle passes are roughly 200 levels. The first 100 levels feature new content, but the 2nd 100 levels are exotic reskins of the new content. They also feature enough currency in the first 100 levels to rebuy the pass for future seasons. The back 1/2 is are exotic cosmetic unlocks. The key point is that even a noob level day 1 player can realistically expect to complete the first 100 levels and earn enough currency to rebuy the pass in a future season. Everything you earn in the 2nd 1/2 is just cosmetic "Flexes" that won't affect your ability to play or compete.

My complaint is that they haven't done the work for the 2nd half and the "season pass" is incomplete for end stage player. Let just look at how the Infinity Stones still drives high end player engagement, even though those supports are outclassed by releases like Eros arrow, Leap frong, Fantastica etc...

While I personally am indifferent to a "Silver Armour" Namor at level 200. There is more enough evidence to say that people will extend their play to achieve a meaningless cosmetic achievement. vs slapping a rotating rank 1 stone at level 200.

I'm not sure MPQ can do this, and I think if they did find some way, it'd upset a lot of the folks that it was meant for.

There are two issues: number 1, how the heck do you design the back half quests that can only be completed by end stage players? I can't even think of what those might be. If you make them stuff like "make a lot of matches" or "do a lot of fights" -- well, anybody can do those.

Number 2 has to do with the players themselves. We see it here all the time. Players expect to earn every reward that's available, and they expect to be able to do it without putting in tons of time or effort. So you'd see stuff like "why are you making me do 1000 fights, just to get this pointless cosmetic?" They won't ever just not do the quests, or whatever, but they will HATE "being forced" to do them.

The only solution that solves both #1 and #2 is to create quests in the back half like "do one fight with a champion 5* Chasm" or something...just gating progress. But new players would decry that as a cash grab or something, and they'd probably be right.

It's a really difficult situation. When you can complete the quests too easily or quickly, some folks don't like that, and when they take too much effort, some don't like that either.

entrailbucket

Fwiw I think the actual answer is really simple. I don't mean any of this as an insult, but MPQ has cultivated a playerbase that really likes doing exactly the same stuff over and over again every day, week, month, etc. It's the same events, using the same characters, at the same times, every single day forever.

I think the answer is for them to just pick some format for the season pass or season quests or whatever and stick to it forever. There'll be some initial resistance to whatever it is, because there always is, but after 6 months or a year everyone will adapt to the new routine and forget it was ever a thing. Remember how upset everyone was when they changed the colors on the board? "It's so ugly now," "I'll never get used to it," etc? Does anyone even remember they did that now? Do you remember what the old board looked like?

Phumade

@entrailbucket said:

There are two issues: number 1, how the heck do you design the back half quests that can only be completed by end stage players? I can't even think of what those might be. If you make them stuff like "make a lot of matches" or "do a lot of fights" -- well, anybody can do those.

Number 2 has to do with the players themselves. We see it here all the time. Players expect to earn every reward that's available, and they expect to be able to do it without putting in tons of time or effort. So you'd see stuff like "why are you making me do 1000 fights, just to get this pointless cosmetic?" They won't ever just not do the quests, or whatever, but they will HATE "being forced" to do them.

The only solution that solves both #1 and #2 is to create quests in the back half like "do one fight with a champion 5* Chasm" or something...just gating progress. But new players would decry that as a cash grab or something, and they'd probably be right.

It's a really difficult situation. When you can complete the quests too easily or quickly, some folks don't like that, and when they take too much effort, some don't like that either.

1. Epic doesn't change the quests. Its the exact same play experience. The psychological driver is that its simply an exotic costume for only the people who have time or the roster to grind. There is no competitive benefit for a day 1 player to grind hard for an exotic costume. (fyi, epic sells levels. so anyone can buy the costume just like today or grind matches.)

2. I agree I would not scale the battlepass under an assumption of 500 matches per event (fyi, we know there are players routinely surpoass that), but a reasonable objective might be the equivalent of 200 matches played per event, with the ability to buy levels for last week of season.

Overall, I agree the goal isn't to gate the 2nd 1/2 of the pass. just an acceptance that.

1. The current battle pass content is fine for the first 2 weeks of the season, A lazy daily player can and should easily complete it in the 28 days and earn enough currency to fully participate in the next season.

2. Ambitious new players should still be able to do the 2nd half quests, but match volume should be consistent with what a LB placement player would typically see. 50-75 matches per event.

We can let the game economists decide on if 200 matches per event should be the ending threshold, but its super clear, they need appropriate battlepass rewards for day 1000- day 3000 players.

entrailbucket

@Phumade said:

@entrailbucket said:

There are two issues: number 1, how the heck do you design the back half quests that can only be completed by end stage players? I can't even think of what those might be. If you make them stuff like "make a lot of matches" or "do a lot of fights" -- well, anybody can do those.

Number 2 has to do with the players themselves. We see it here all the time. Players expect to earn every reward that's available, and they expect to be able to do it without putting in tons of time or effort. So you'd see stuff like "why are you making me do 1000 fights, just to get this pointless cosmetic?" They won't ever just not do the quests, or whatever, but they will HATE "being forced" to do them.

The only solution that solves both #1 and #2 is to create quests in the back half like "do one fight with a champion 5* Chasm" or something...just gating progress. But new players would decry that as a cash grab or something, and they'd probably be right.

It's a really difficult situation. When you can complete the quests too easily or quickly, some folks don't like that, and when they take too much effort, some don't like that either.

1. Epic doesn't change the quests. Its the exact same play experience. The psychological driver is that its simply an exotic costume for only the people who have time or the roster to grind. There is no competitive benefit for a day 1 player to grind hard for an exotic costume. (fyi, epic sells levels. so anyone can buy the costume just like today or grind matches.)

2. I agree I would not scale the battlepass under an assumption of 500 matches per event (fyi, we know there are players routinely surpoass that), but a reasonable objective might be the equivalent of 200 matches played per event, with the ability to buy levels for last week of season.

Overall, I agree the goal isn't to gate the 2nd 1/2 of the pass. just an acceptance that.

1. The current battle pass content is fine for the first 2 weeks of the season, A lazy daily player can and should easily complete it in the 28 days and earn enough currency to fully participate in the next season.

2. Ambitious new players should still be able to do the 2nd half quests, but match volume should be consistent with what a LB placement player would typically see. 50-75 matches per event.

We can let the game economists decide on if 200 matches per event should be the ending threshold, but its super clear, they need appropriate battlepass rewards for day 1000- day 3000 players.

I just don't think they can do that without making a lot of players really angry.

MPQ players of a certain tenure generally have an expectation that they'll be able to check every single box and earn every reward. It's been built up that way over time, because they've never given us "stretch goals" of the sort that you're describing.

If they gave out some reward for doing 200 matches per event for a season, I think a lot of folks would be compelled to earn that reward, and would resent having to do that much "work." I suppose you could mitigate that somewhat by making the reward totally useless, but then you'd get another group complaining that they did all this "work" for something useless.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@Phumade said:

@entrailbucket said:

There are two issues: number 1, how the heck do you design the back half quests that can only be completed by end stage players? I can't even think of what those might be. If you make them stuff like "make a lot of matches" or "do a lot of fights" -- well, anybody can do those.

Number 2 has to do with the players themselves. We see it here all the time. Players expect to earn every reward that's available, and they expect to be able to do it without putting in tons of time or effort. So you'd see stuff like "why are you making me do 1000 fights, just to get this pointless cosmetic?" They won't ever just not do the quests, or whatever, but they will HATE "being forced" to do them.

The only solution that solves both #1 and #2 is to create quests in the back half like "do one fight with a champion 5* Chasm" or something...just gating progress. But new players would decry that as a cash grab or something, and they'd probably be right.

It's a really difficult situation. When you can complete the quests too easily or quickly, some folks don't like that, and when they take too much effort, some don't like that either.

1. Epic doesn't change the quests. Its the exact same play experience. The psychological driver is that its simply an exotic costume for only the people who have time or the roster to grind. There is no competitive benefit for a day 1 player to grind hard for an exotic costume. (fyi, epic sells levels. so anyone can buy the costume just like today or grind matches.)

2. I agree I would not scale the battlepass under an assumption of 500 matches per event (fyi, we know there are players routinely surpoass that), but a reasonable objective might be the equivalent of 200 matches played per event, with the ability to buy levels for last week of season.

Overall, I agree the goal isn't to gate the 2nd 1/2 of the pass. just an acceptance that.

1. The current battle pass content is fine for the first 2 weeks of the season, A lazy daily player can and should easily complete it in the 28 days and earn enough currency to fully participate in the next season.

2. Ambitious new players should still be able to do the 2nd half quests, but match volume should be consistent with what a LB placement player would typically see. 50-75 matches per event.

We can let the game economists decide on if 200 matches per event should be the ending threshold, but its super clear, they need appropriate battlepass rewards for day 1000- day 3000 players.

I just don't think they can do that without making a lot of players really angry.

It's been built up that way over time, because they've never given us "stretch goals" of the sort that you're describing.

Actually the 'Stone' quests for the whole community are essentially "stretch goals" that give out a Stone as a reward for meeting a community goal. The final tier of rewards (the Stone) pretty much requires extra effort by everyone.

And exactly as you said, it make a lot of players unhappy when we didn't meet it for several community quests in a row.

The only other thing that was close to that was the original Gauntlet PvE where you were definitely gated off if you had a weaker roster from doing the 2nd and 3rd parts. And of course Gauntlet is no more either - LOL.

The real problem with these Battle Passes is that you generally have no idea how long it's going to take to complete because the quests come one another another and you don't know what the next quests will be. So will it take you 7 days or 14 days or 28 days of normal play or maybe you can't finish at all. That FOMO is what drives players to do tons of extra battles early (or use characters they don't normally use) to finish ASAP. Then you get what we have now which is complaints that they finished early.

They seem to be gradually figuring it out in terms of what's reasonable for a daily quest (no more 50 matches in strongest color, now its 10). Now they just need to adjust weekly ones since make 100 matches or kill 100 enemies or make 100 SAP tiles happens in like 5 battles in 1 day rather than take a week or even come close to a week.

KGB

entrailbucket

Funny you should mention The Gauntlet -- one time they ran a test, and gave out placement rewards for whoever did the Gauntlet fastest.

It was (not kidding) one heroic 10-pack, for the first 10 players to finish.

The forum went ballistic. Everybody felt like they had to grind it as quickly as possible, there was a huge post about how unfair it was, how it ruined the Gauntlet, how it was a cash grab -- it was insane.

The only other thing I remember like that were one or two PvE runs in 2014 or so that had extra progression rewards past "max" prog. They were basically only achievable if you played totally optimally (which was a lot harder back then, to be fair). They also were received...badly.

DeNappa

I understand why there's more "season XP" to earn for your pass than is required to max it. Gives some leeway for people who just don't play as much and/or to allow for a bit of slack on missions. But I would have liked it if they offered a conversion from SXP to other currencies after you hit the max. For example let us choose between CP, HP, ISO, and RISO at a conversion rate appropriate to the currency.

Scofie

I think there is the obvious comment of "you're never going to please everyone, but is no reason to do nothing".

There are a always a number of different and reasonable perspectives.
1) Availability breeds expectation - if it's there, I should be able to earn it vs why should a Day 60 player be able to earn the same as a Day 4000 player?
2) Effort vs rewards - I shouldn't have to go hugely out of my way to earn things. I spend enough time on this game vs tons shouldn't be just given away for doing the same thing you've always done.
3) The culture chicken and egg - the game has a culture that is driven by unreasonable player expectations and behaviour vs the game has created the culture amongst players over a decade.

Interestingly, I think the Pass has quite a different dynamic depending on your roster and experience. Some of the Quests might not be achievable to newer rosters, it indeed may be based on luck - case in point was yesterday's stun with either a 4 or 5* character. Today's focused on 2 and 3☆ so "easier" to achieve for newer rosters.

I've mentioned previously about different currency values at different points in the game and looking at the Pass from that lens makes it pretty universal. Not perfect for anyone but something for everyone.

That said, I entirely agree with the incremental earning of the joining fee through the levels. Players can wait and buy it at the last minute depending on where they get to and whether it is worth it for them, but I think the purpose is driving people to play more regularly and this is one way to do that without risk of not being able to roster the characters you just earned.

Codex

It's not quick enough, I should be able complete it day 1 in the under 15mins. And then the banner disappears.

JoeHandle

Jeebus people it's a new feature. Give it a few iterations for refinement.

It's extra loot earned while playing what you would anyway, zero basis for complaint.

How to make it more relevant / challenging for all levels of play? Apply SCLs to it. The SCL selected for season determines the loot sequence, and the difficulty of and chars required for the "quests".

DarthPseudonym

@Tony_Foot said:
People moaned about some of the chore tasks and so now we have a system where you don't need to do them all. So now we moan we want to do them all and get more stuff.

No, that's missing the point. "Some of these quests are a pain in the rear" and "getting done this far in advance is a downer" are ideas that can and should coexist.

I think it's a good idea to have a buffer so that players don't have to do absolutely every quest to get all the prizes. It's nice to know that you can miss a few goals here and there and still finish, especially if they require specific characters that people might just not have access to. But, the buffer they've implemented is just way too huge, where you can easily finish the whole thing weeks ahead of the end of the season.

If I were completing all the quests every day/week and getting to the final prize three or four days early, I wouldn't be posting this!

slidecage

Would not shock me if they did like in marvel snap with the pass.

Got to wonder if the seasonal vault will return Thurs with new season. Or not till first of year

I still say it will become pay to join. No more hp it cost cash for pre side. First few months be free but I say by summer 2025 we will have a cash season pass side. I be all for paying 5 to 10 bucks per month ifrewards good.

5 bucks at least a 5 star and slot
10 bucks. At least one ascended 1000 hp outfit and iso shard ****