New Character - Namor (Phoenix Five) 5*

S0kun

@frachr said:
@S0kun
Still no Namora retro rewards. Is the patch pushed?
Thanks!

Not yet. We're pushing out R316 earlier than usual as a hot fix for some of the tech issues mentioned this week. Once confirmed, we'll start tackling other tasks like the feeder issue.

SuperCarrot

So…how is Namor?

bluewolf

@SuperCarrot said:
So…how is Namor?

Moderately good. Someone said A-tier and I agree....would be a bit more useful if you could get black AP more easily (not villain supports). If you want to use him I recommend trying to get your Atlantis support to R5 (I'm only on 3 myself).

The black getting stronger and only losing 5 points on the extra dmg counter with a casting and only costing 6 ap, and green feeding it and being a decent counter to various SAP folks - and also only costing 6 ap - all that adds up pretty nicely. You could use him vs annoying invisibility spamming people pretty well too.

He's not as good as Agatha or Mephisto. I am a bit torn on him vs Nova - they both have uses imo if Nova can tank. If Nova's not tanking I'd rather have Namor.

I place him like 4th or 5th for the year January to now if you're using boosts. Without boosts maybe he's 6th. I like that he doesn't rely on special tiles being on screen to be optimal but his ap needs mean he's not going to do that well on defense typically, also you need to use his black at the right time and all that.

We have had a pretty good year, character-wise.

Tiger_Wong

I like Ph5 Namor way more than 5*Nova. Nova is boring and he MUST tank. And if his health is full, his black power won’t even fire.

Ph5 Namor feels really good and fun with destruction teams and board manipulators. Namor + Agatha is sneaky good and those 2 can really pump up any characters match damage, let alone a Ph5 Colossus or Shaw.

I’m really enjoying Namor/Ascended Agent Venom/Ascended (boosted) Hydra Stomper.

Daredevil217

@bluewolf said:

@SuperCarrot said:
So…how is Namor?

Moderately good. Someone said A-tier and I agree....would be a bit more useful if you could get black AP more easily (not villain supports). If you want to use him I recommend trying to get your Atlantis support to R5 (I'm only on 3 myself).

The black getting stronger and only losing 5 points on the extra dmg counter with a casting and only costing 6 ap, and green feeding it and being a decent counter to various SAP folks - and also only costing 6 ap - all that adds up pretty nicely. You could use him vs annoying invisibility spamming people pretty well too.

He's not as good as Agatha or Mephisto. I am a bit torn on him vs Nova - they both have uses imo if Nova can tank. If Nova's not tanking I'd rather have Namor.

I place him like 4th or 5th for the year January to now if you're using boosts. Without boosts maybe he's 6th. I like that he doesn't rely on special tiles being on screen to be optimal but his ap needs mean he's not going to do that well on defense typically, also you need to use his black at the right time and all that.

We have had a pretty good year, character-wise.

I’d be interested in your ranking of the five star characters this year

Waddles_Pines

@Tiger_Wong said:
I like Ph5 Namor way more than 5*Nova. Nova is boring and he MUST tank. And if his health is full, his black power won’t even fire.

If I'm not mistaken, since it's random effect, you can fire it again and you'll eventually get one of the other effects

entrailbucket

@Waddles_Pines said:

@Tiger_Wong said:
I like Ph5 Namor way more than 5*Nova. Nova is boring and he MUST tank. And if his health is full, his black power won’t even fire.

If I'm not mistaken, since it's random effect, you can fire it again and you'll eventually get one of the other effects

Yep, if Nova black won't cast, you don't use up the AP and you can immediately cast it again for a different effect.

Nova isn't an all star or anything but he's pretty massively over-hated.

GrimSkald

@bluewolf said:

@SuperCarrot said:
So…how is Namor?

Moderately good. Someone said A-tier and I agree....would be a bit more useful if you could get black AP more easily (not villain supports). If you want to use him I recommend trying to get your Atlantis support to R5 (I'm only on 3 myself).

The black getting stronger and only losing 5 points on the extra dmg counter with a casting and only costing 6 ap, and green feeding it and being a decent counter to various SAP folks - and also only costing 6 ap - all that adds up pretty nicely. You could use him vs annoying invisibility spamming people pretty well too.

He's not as good as Agatha or Mephisto. I am a bit torn on him vs Nova - they both have uses imo if Nova can tank. If Nova's not tanking I'd rather have Namor.

I place him like 4th or 5th for the year January to now if you're using boosts. Without boosts maybe he's 6th. I like that he doesn't rely on special tiles being on screen to be optimal but his ap needs mean he's not going to do that well on defense typically, also you need to use his black at the right time and all that.

We have had a pretty good year, character-wise.

Huh, I'd put Namor a bit better than Mephisto, but possibly that's just because I have a 550 MThor and, starting this week, that's about as good a team as I can get out of the boosted (man, it's a bad boosted 5★ week.) Mephisto is great on paper - decent stun and absolutely constant damage, but I find that damage is a bit low for my liking unless you're running him with a damage booster, and your standard SAP team with Polaris actually inhibits Mephisto since the spammed tiles overwrite his hellfire tiles.

With Namor/MThor I'm definitely going "all in" on boardshake which means I've occasionally won on turn two (probably could do it in one with AP boosts,) though of course that relies heavily on luck. Namor's red damage is super-low, but it does feed his black damage and it is useful for clearing chaff (not to mention it does hit invisible, which is valuable in PVP these days.) Usually you use MThor for Red, but when Namor's is down to 3 it's worthwhile, particularly if you can follow it up with MThor's for 6. Green does good boardshake and feeds the black. Black is a little slow since you don't want to fire it until you get the Wrath up into the 30s at least, but it never maxes out and you can do over 100K worth of damage with this team.

So, yeah, I'd put both Namor and Mephisto on the lower end of A, with Namor edging out Mephisto because of who he can partner with. That's just my opinion/experience, though, what's yours?

GrimSkald

Oh, btw, no-one directly asked but a few people kind of implied about it. I'd consider Agatha S-Tier. She's really good, not the sort of person you'll use all the time since her yellow doesn't want her to tank, but she very useful with a few teams (including MThor, weirdly enough, since her purple tiles proc when destroyed.) I've been running her in Shield Sim as a great answer to the Ascended 3|4★ Aunt May teams.

As far as everyone else this year goes, I think we're starting to creep too far off for this particular topic, but I'm looking at the list and it actually hasn't been a bad year. I'd probably put Agatha as the only S (though both May Parker and Jubilee are pretty good and may come close,) but there are definitely some decent toons in there. I also agree that Nova is a bit under-rated, but he still isn't good by any real metric. You might use him when boosted, since he does like to tank.

dianetics

You all are splitting hairs here.
Mephisto and Namor are A tier characters that fill their own niches and are very good at it.
Agatha is a clear S tier support.
Between the 3 it’s going to be the best LL store we have seen. Since every character is either pick 1 or 2 for a number of teams.

GrimSkald

@dianetics said:
You all are splitting hairs here.
Mephisto and Namor are A tier characters that fill their own niches and are very good at it.
Agatha is a clear S tier support.
Between the 3 it’s going to be the best LL store we have seen. Since every character is either pick 1 or 2 for a number of teams.

That's fair and I agree. I haven't gone down to 0 Legendary pulls in a year or so, I think. I almost certainly will next Season.

I'm not a super hoarder (I'm just under 500 pulls at the moment,) but yeah, this lot is good, and well worth getting at least into the 520s if not 550.

entrailbucket

@dianetics said:
You all are splitting hairs here.
Mephisto and Namor are A tier characters that fill their own niches and are very good at it.
Agatha is a clear S tier support.
Between the 3 it’s going to be the best LL store we have seen. Since every character is either pick 1 or 2 for a number of teams.

Ever is a very long time. I'm pretty sure Gambit and Thor were in the same legendary store. Also weren't m'Thor and Chasm in at the same time?

GrimSkald

@entrailbucket said:

@dianetics said:
You all are splitting hairs here.
Mephisto and Namor are A tier characters that fill their own niches and are very good at it.
Agatha is a clear S tier support.
Between the 3 it’s going to be the best LL store we have seen. Since every character is either pick 1 or 2 for a number of teams.

Ever is a very long time. I'm pretty sure Gambit and Thor were in the same legendary store. Also weren't m'Thor and Chasm in at the same time?

I keep a list. You're right -- Gambit and GladiaThor were in the same Legendary Pool - but on either side of them were Daredevil (thematically perfect but woefully underpowered even from the start,) and Archangel (absolutely sucked until his boost, now is about B tier.) MThor and Chasm were released back-to-back, yes, and on either side of them are Kamala Khan (deceptively decent, but only decent,) and She-Hulk (just plain doesn't work well, tbh.) IIRC I did go down to zero on the first, but haven't really leveled Kamala since then, she's 486. Possibly She-Hulk too, she's 493 and I've never favorited her either.

Skimming through the list, I really don't see any that stand out as all three being really solid. Even SW/Colossus, a once-standby, are bookended with Cyclops and Knull, both of whom I would say are under-powered.

Maybe Wong-Kang-Magik? Magik might be high B-tier...

entrailbucket

@GrimSkald said:

@entrailbucket said:

@dianetics said:
You all are splitting hairs here.
Mephisto and Namor are A tier characters that fill their own niches and are very good at it.
Agatha is a clear S tier support.
Between the 3 it’s going to be the best LL store we have seen. Since every character is either pick 1 or 2 for a number of teams.

Ever is a very long time. I'm pretty sure Gambit and Thor were in the same legendary store. Also weren't m'Thor and Chasm in at the same time?

I keep a list. You're right -- Gambit and GladiaThor were in the same Legendary Pool - but on either side of them were Daredevil (thematically perfect but woefully underpowered even from the start,) and Archangel (absolutely sucked until his boost, now is about B tier.) MThor and Chasm were released back-to-back, yes, and on either side of them are Kamala Khan (deceptively decent, but only decent,) and She-Hulk (just plain doesn't work well, tbh.) IIRC I did go down to zero on the first, but haven't really leveled Kamala since then, she's 486. Possibly She-Hulk too, she's 493 and I've never favorited her either.

Skimming through the list, I really don't see any that stand out as all three being really solid. Even SW/Colossus, a once-standby, are bookended with Cyclops and Knull, both of whom I would say are under-powered.

Maybe Wong-Kang-Magik? Magik might be high B-tier...

I guess it remains to be seen then!

The Thor/Gambit and m'Thor/Chasm groups may have lacked viable 3rds, but managed to define the metagame for very long periods. Will the current 3 have the same impact?

I find it difficult to believe, simply because those other pools pushed the power level so hard. The current 3 are definitely solid, but who are they replacing? The characters folks use now are so strong that it'll be hard to power creep them. Are any of these 3 strong enough to push out one of the current staples?

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@entrailbucket said:

@dianetics said:
You all are splitting hairs here.
Mephisto and Namor are A tier characters that fill their own niches and are very good at it.
Agatha is a clear S tier support.
Between the 3 it’s going to be the best LL store we have seen. Since every character is either pick 1 or 2 for a number of teams.

Ever is a very long time. I'm pretty sure Gambit and Thor were in the same legendary store. Also weren't m'Thor and Chasm in at the same time?

I keep a list. You're right -- Gambit and GladiaThor were in the same Legendary Pool - but on either side of them were Daredevil (thematically perfect but woefully underpowered even from the start,) and Archangel (absolutely sucked until his boost, now is about B tier.) MThor and Chasm were released back-to-back, yes, and on either side of them are Kamala Khan (deceptively decent, but only decent,) and She-Hulk (just plain doesn't work well, tbh.) IIRC I did go down to zero on the first, but haven't really leveled Kamala since then, she's 486. Possibly She-Hulk too, she's 493 and I've never favorited her either.

Skimming through the list, I really don't see any that stand out as all three being really solid. Even SW/Colossus, a once-standby, are bookended with Cyclops and Knull, both of whom I would say are under-powered.

Maybe Wong-Kang-Magik? Magik might be high B-tier...

I guess it remains to be seen then!

The Thor/Gambit and m'Thor/Chasm groups may have lacked viable 3rds, but managed to define the metagame for very long periods. Will the current 3 have the same impact?

I find it difficult to believe, simply because those other pools pushed the power level so hard. The current 3 are definitely solid, but who are they replacing? The characters folks use now are so strong that it'll be hard to power creep them. Are any of these 3 strong enough to push out one of the current staples?

To be fair, Thor didn't become meta until Gambit got his nerf. Prior to that he was so OP no one else mattered much. After Gambit got his nerf then Thorkoye started their reign. At the time of his release he wasn't considered anywhere near what Gambit, Chasm or MThor were at theirs.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@entrailbucket said:

@dianetics said:
You all are splitting hairs here.
Mephisto and Namor are A tier characters that fill their own niches and are very good at it.
Agatha is a clear S tier support.
Between the 3 it’s going to be the best LL store we have seen. Since every character is either pick 1 or 2 for a number of teams.

Ever is a very long time. I'm pretty sure Gambit and Thor were in the same legendary store. Also weren't m'Thor and Chasm in at the same time?

I keep a list. You're right -- Gambit and GladiaThor were in the same Legendary Pool - but on either side of them were Daredevil (thematically perfect but woefully underpowered even from the start,) and Archangel (absolutely sucked until his boost, now is about B tier.) MThor and Chasm were released back-to-back, yes, and on either side of them are Kamala Khan (deceptively decent, but only decent,) and She-Hulk (just plain doesn't work well, tbh.) IIRC I did go down to zero on the first, but haven't really leveled Kamala since then, she's 486. Possibly She-Hulk too, she's 493 and I've never favorited her either.

Skimming through the list, I really don't see any that stand out as all three being really solid. Even SW/Colossus, a once-standby, are bookended with Cyclops and Knull, both of whom I would say are under-powered.

Maybe Wong-Kang-Magik? Magik might be high B-tier...

I guess it remains to be seen then!

The Thor/Gambit and m'Thor/Chasm groups may have lacked viable 3rds, but managed to define the metagame for very long periods. Will the current 3 have the same impact?

I find it difficult to believe, simply because those other pools pushed the power level so hard. The current 3 are definitely solid, but who are they replacing? The characters folks use now are so strong that it'll be hard to power creep them. Are any of these 3 strong enough to push out one of the current staples?

To be fair, Thor didn't become meta until Gambit got his nerf. Prior to that he was so OP no one else mattered much. After Gambit got his nerf then Thorkoye started their reign. At the time of his release he wasn't considered anywhere near what Gambit, Chasm or MThor were at theirs.

KGB

Exactly!!!

It's almost impossible to figure out how good, or -- related, but not exactly the same -- how meta-defining a set of Latest are at release time. It depends on a whole lot of different factors.

fight4thedream

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@entrailbucket said:

@dianetics said:
You all are splitting hairs here.
Mephisto and Namor are A tier characters that fill their own niches and are very good at it.
Agatha is a clear S tier support.
Between the 3 it’s going to be the best LL store we have seen. Since every character is either pick 1 or 2 for a number of teams.

Ever is a very long time. I'm pretty sure Gambit and Thor were in the same legendary store. Also weren't m'Thor and Chasm in at the same time?

I keep a list. You're right -- Gambit and GladiaThor were in the same Legendary Pool - but on either side of them were Daredevil (thematically perfect but woefully underpowered even from the start,) and Archangel (absolutely sucked until his boost, now is about B tier.) MThor and Chasm were released back-to-back, yes, and on either side of them are Kamala Khan (deceptively decent, but only decent,) and She-Hulk (just plain doesn't work well, tbh.) IIRC I did go down to zero on the first, but haven't really leveled Kamala since then, she's 486. Possibly She-Hulk too, she's 493 and I've never favorited her either.

Skimming through the list, I really don't see any that stand out as all three being really solid. Even SW/Colossus, a once-standby, are bookended with Cyclops and Knull, both of whom I would say are under-powered.

Maybe Wong-Kang-Magik? Magik might be high B-tier...

I guess it remains to be seen then!

The Thor/Gambit and m'Thor/Chasm groups may have lacked viable 3rds, but managed to define the metagame for very long periods. Will the current 3 have the same impact?

I find it difficult to believe, simply because those other pools pushed the power level so hard. The current 3 are definitely solid, but who are they replacing? The characters folks use now are so strong that it'll be hard to power creep them. Are any of these 3 strong enough to push out one of the current staples?

To be fair, Thor didn't become meta until Gambit got his nerf. Prior to that he was so OP no one else mattered much. After Gambit got his nerf then Thorkoye started their reign. At the time of his release he wasn't considered anywhere near what Gambit, Chasm or MThor were at theirs.

KGB

Exactly!!!

It's almost impossible to figure out how good, or -- related, but not exactly the same -- how meta-defining a set of Latest are at release time. It depends on a whole lot of different factors.

It's also important to keep in mind that Okoye came later down the line. I have always wondered what the meta would have looked like if they hadn't nerfed Gambit with Okoye and Thor being a thing.

And on that note, I went all in on Nova, Agatha, Mephisto. I think Nova has a lot of potential if the dev team decides to flesh out the CD meta more dramatically and his skillset seems more interesting to me than Namor.

I guess my main issue with Namor is that I don't really see where I would use him non-boosted. Sure, he is great with MThor but she has a lot of dance partners and I don't see Namor cracking the top 5. There is Shang-Chi, Riri, Agatha, Polaris, Colossus. You can make an argument about him replacing Colossus in that top 5 list but I value Colossus's damage reduction and defensive potential especially with Fantasticar.

I see people talk about him potentially getting rid of invisibility tiles but is that really a big issue for MThor teams? I honestly don't know since I don't run MThor much in PvP but opponent teams with MThor seem to get my by invisibility tiles without much sweat.

He makes a good third wheel for PvE teams with MThor/Shang-chi but then there's also America Chavez and Agatha whose abilities seem more reliable.

And if you aren't running him with MThor, who else are you going to pair him with? I saw Agent Venom mentioned which is cool and if that is something that works well, I'm here for it. I would like to say Gladiator Thor but the defense on that team would just be atrocious.

So I'm still sitting on the fence on whether I want to invest heavily in him. On the other hand, I love the 3* Rivals Namor. There is a lot of crazy fun time potential there.

WhiteBomber

@fight4thedream said:

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@entrailbucket said:

@dianetics said:
You all are splitting hairs here.
Mephisto and Namor are A tier characters that fill their own niches and are very good at it.
Agatha is a clear S tier support.
Between the 3 it’s going to be the best LL store we have seen. Since every character is either pick 1 or 2 for a number of teams.

Ever is a very long time. I'm pretty sure Gambit and Thor were in the same legendary store. Also weren't m'Thor and Chasm in at the same time?

I keep a list. You're right -- Gambit and GladiaThor were in the same Legendary Pool - but on either side of them were Daredevil (thematically perfect but woefully underpowered even from the start,) and Archangel (absolutely sucked until his boost, now is about B tier.) MThor and Chasm were released back-to-back, yes, and on either side of them are Kamala Khan (deceptively decent, but only decent,) and She-Hulk (just plain doesn't work well, tbh.) IIRC I did go down to zero on the first, but haven't really leveled Kamala since then, she's 486. Possibly She-Hulk too, she's 493 and I've never favorited her either.

Skimming through the list, I really don't see any that stand out as all three being really solid. Even SW/Colossus, a once-standby, are bookended with Cyclops and Knull, both of whom I would say are under-powered.

Maybe Wong-Kang-Magik? Magik might be high B-tier...

I guess it remains to be seen then!

The Thor/Gambit and m'Thor/Chasm groups may have lacked viable 3rds, but managed to define the metagame for very long periods. Will the current 3 have the same impact?

I find it difficult to believe, simply because those other pools pushed the power level so hard. The current 3 are definitely solid, but who are they replacing? The characters folks use now are so strong that it'll be hard to power creep them. Are any of these 3 strong enough to push out one of the current staples?

To be fair, Thor didn't become meta until Gambit got his nerf. Prior to that he was so OP no one else mattered much. After Gambit got his nerf then Thorkoye started their reign. At the time of his release he wasn't considered anywhere near what Gambit, Chasm or MThor were at theirs.

KGB

Exactly!!!

It's almost impossible to figure out how good, or -- related, but not exactly the same -- how meta-defining a set of Latest are at release time. It depends on a whole lot of different factors.

It's also important to keep in mind that Okoye came later down the line. I have always wondered what the meta would have looked like if they hadn't nerfed Gambit with Okoye and Thor being a thing.

And on that note, I went all in on Nova, Agatha, Mephisto. I think Nova has a lot of potential if the dev team decides to flesh out the CD meta more dramatically and his skillset seems more interesting to me than Namor.

I guess my main issue with Namor is that I don't really see where I would use him non-boosted. Sure, he is great with MThor but she has a lot of dance partners and I don't see Namor cracking the top 5. There is Shang-Chi, Riri, Agatha, Polaris, Colossus. You can make an argument about him replacing Colossus in that top 5 list but I value Colossus's damage reduction and defensive potential especially with Fantasticar.

I see people talk about him potentially getting rid of invisibility tiles but is that really a big issue for MThor teams? I honestly don't know since I don't run MThor much in PvP but opponent teams with MThor seem to get my by invisibility tiles without much sweat.

He makes a good third wheel for PvE teams with MThor/Shang-chi but then there's also America Chavez and Agatha whose abilities seem more reliable.

And if you aren't running him with MThor, who else are you going to pair him with? I saw Agent Venom mentioned which is cool and if that is something that works well, I'm here for it. I would like to say Gladiator Thor but the defense on that team would just be atrocious.

So I'm still sitting on the fence on whether I want to invest heavily in him. On the other hand, I love the 3* Rivals Namor. There is a lot of crazy fun time potential there.

"And if you aren't running him with MThor, who else are you going to pair him with?"
Agatha5, Karnack, Shangchi, Northstar etc. If we're being honest with ourselves though, the 3star is already better than the 5. I like them both.

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber said:

@fight4thedream said:

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@entrailbucket said:

@dianetics said:
You all are splitting hairs here.
Mephisto and Namor are A tier characters that fill their own niches and are very good at it.
Agatha is a clear S tier support.
Between the 3 it’s going to be the best LL store we have seen. Since every character is either pick 1 or 2 for a number of teams.

Ever is a very long time. I'm pretty sure Gambit and Thor were in the same legendary store. Also weren't m'Thor and Chasm in at the same time?

I keep a list. You're right -- Gambit and GladiaThor were in the same Legendary Pool - but on either side of them were Daredevil (thematically perfect but woefully underpowered even from the start,) and Archangel (absolutely sucked until his boost, now is about B tier.) MThor and Chasm were released back-to-back, yes, and on either side of them are Kamala Khan (deceptively decent, but only decent,) and She-Hulk (just plain doesn't work well, tbh.) IIRC I did go down to zero on the first, but haven't really leveled Kamala since then, she's 486. Possibly She-Hulk too, she's 493 and I've never favorited her either.

Skimming through the list, I really don't see any that stand out as all three being really solid. Even SW/Colossus, a once-standby, are bookended with Cyclops and Knull, both of whom I would say are under-powered.

Maybe Wong-Kang-Magik? Magik might be high B-tier...

I guess it remains to be seen then!

The Thor/Gambit and m'Thor/Chasm groups may have lacked viable 3rds, but managed to define the metagame for very long periods. Will the current 3 have the same impact?

I find it difficult to believe, simply because those other pools pushed the power level so hard. The current 3 are definitely solid, but who are they replacing? The characters folks use now are so strong that it'll be hard to power creep them. Are any of these 3 strong enough to push out one of the current staples?

To be fair, Thor didn't become meta until Gambit got his nerf. Prior to that he was so OP no one else mattered much. After Gambit got his nerf then Thorkoye started their reign. At the time of his release he wasn't considered anywhere near what Gambit, Chasm or MThor were at theirs.

KGB

Exactly!!!

It's almost impossible to figure out how good, or -- related, but not exactly the same -- how meta-defining a set of Latest are at release time. It depends on a whole lot of different factors.

It's also important to keep in mind that Okoye came later down the line. I have always wondered what the meta would have looked like if they hadn't nerfed Gambit with Okoye and Thor being a thing.

And on that note, I went all in on Nova, Agatha, Mephisto. I think Nova has a lot of potential if the dev team decides to flesh out the CD meta more dramatically and his skillset seems more interesting to me than Namor.

I guess my main issue with Namor is that I don't really see where I would use him non-boosted. Sure, he is great with MThor but she has a lot of dance partners and I don't see Namor cracking the top 5. There is Shang-Chi, Riri, Agatha, Polaris, Colossus. You can make an argument about him replacing Colossus in that top 5 list but I value Colossus's damage reduction and defensive potential especially with Fantasticar.

I see people talk about him potentially getting rid of invisibility tiles but is that really a big issue for MThor teams? I honestly don't know since I don't run MThor much in PvP but opponent teams with MThor seem to get my by invisibility tiles without much sweat.

He makes a good third wheel for PvE teams with MThor/Shang-chi but then there's also America Chavez and Agatha whose abilities seem more reliable.

And if you aren't running him with MThor, who else are you going to pair him with? I saw Agent Venom mentioned which is cool and if that is something that works well, I'm here for it. I would like to say Gladiator Thor but the defense on that team would just be atrocious.

So I'm still sitting on the fence on whether I want to invest heavily in him. On the other hand, I love the 3* Rivals Namor. There is a lot of crazy fun time potential there.

"And if you aren't running him with MThor, who else are you going to pair him with?"
Agatha5, Karnack, Shangchi, Northstar etc. If we're being honest with ourselves though, the 3star is already better than the 5. I like them both.

I think you guys are having different discussions here, and it's the classic discrepancy in character evaluation where both sides are right, they're just evaluating on a different axis.

"Namor is good" and "Namor is never the best option when unboosted" are not contradictory at all.

dianetics

@WhiteBomber said:
"And if you aren't running him with MThor, who else are you going to pair him with?"
Agatha5, Karnack, Shangchi, Northstar etc. If we're being honest with ourselves though, the 3star is already better than the 5. I like them both.

Shh don't let the cat out of the bag.