What do you think of the game AI?

turbomoose

They could introduce a daily play challenge mode where AI is switched to intelligent, this could be in either DDQ or use the Campaign section of the game as once you’ve got all the resources and rewards from this it’s never used

As it would be much harder to win the rewards could be better and would give the veterans of the game something that would challenge them

entrailbucket

@turbomoose said:
They could introduce a daily play challenge mode where AI is switched to intelligent, this could be in either DDQ or use the Campaign section of the game as once you’ve got all the resources and rewards from this it’s never used

As it would be much harder to win the rewards could be better and would give the veterans of the game something that would challenge them

Here's the other problem -- if the AI suddenly became much more difficult, wouldn't everybody just beat it with an autowin team like Kang or whatever? Would a smarter AI actually play any different against m'Thor's endless cascades and super cheap high damage powers?

KGB

I love nothing more than pulling the wings off flies

@entrailbucket said:
Huh. Assuming that's still true, he doesn't actually prioritize his strongest colors directly -- he only prioritizes matches that will charge an active ability. So it's none of the things any of us thought!

Well technically the only way you can charge an active ability is by prioritizing strongest colors.

There must be more to the logic than those 2 rules though (or they changed it at some point). I know this because in the Apoc boss event, Apocs strongest color is Black which for him is a passive (I think it's his heal). My go-to team uses Cloak and Dagger + 4Carol and I let Cloak and Dagger generate infinite free Black for him which he happily matches (letting 4Carol generate 4 AP in my strongest color to disable one of his horsemen).

By the AI logic he shouldn't care at all about Black and should only prioritize Red (his only active color) and then select randomly from the remaining 5 colors. But he absolutely doesn't do that, he relentlessly picks his strongest colors (Black/Red/Yellow) and only if a match in those 3 isn't available does he pick one of the other 3.

KGB

TheXMan

Does 'he' have a name?

Bowgentle

Well, it's gotta be Jarvis.

Scofie

@TheXMan said:
Does 'he' have a name?

I think in the above example it's "Apocalypse"...

Scofie

@turbomoose said:
They could introduce a daily play challenge mode where AI is switched to intelligent, this could be in either DDQ or use the Campaign section of the game as once you’ve got all the resources and rewards from this it’s never used

As it would be much harder to win the rewards could be better and would give the veterans of the game something that would challenge them

Ooh I like this idea. "Grandmaster's Daily Challenge". No boosts, no TUs just a fight to the death with a boosted MEHulk with super AI.

DAZ0273

On the one hand I am not opposed to smarter AI but on the other hand I am very very very much opposed to smarter AI that may evolve beyond it's parameters and ultimately decide to use any sort of insta-win algorithm to launch nuclear missiles at me. So if MPQ has to stay dumb in order that I am not reduced to a pile of ash then I vote for dumb bunny loser pants.

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@turbomoose said:
They could introduce a daily play challenge mode where AI is switched to intelligent, this could be in either DDQ or use the Campaign section of the game as once you’ve got all the resources and rewards from this it’s never used

As it would be much harder to win the rewards could be better and would give the veterans of the game something that would challenge them

Here's the other problem -- if the AI suddenly became much more difficult, wouldn't everybody just beat it with an autowin team like Kang or whatever? Would a smarter AI actually play any different against m'Thor's endless cascades and super cheap high damage powers?

Once the smarter AI has your phone co-ordinates, it is death from the sky time.

meadowsweet

Bless its stupid, familiar skull full of cotton socks.

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
Huh. Assuming that's still true, he doesn't actually prioritize his strongest colors directly -- he only prioritizes matches that will charge an active ability. So it's none of the things any of us thought!

Well technically the only way you can charge an active ability is by prioritizing strongest colors.

There must be more to the logic than those 2 rules though (or they changed it at some point). I know this because in the Apoc boss event, Apocs strongest color is Black which for him is a passive (I think it's his heal). My go-to team uses Cloak and Dagger + 4Carol and I let Cloak and Dagger generate infinite free Black for him which he happily matches (letting 4Carol generate 4 AP in my strongest color to disable one of his horsemen).

By the AI logic he shouldn't care at all about Black and should only prioritize Red (his only active color) and then select randomly from the remaining 5 colors. But he absolutely doesn't do that, he relentlessly picks his strongest colors (Black/Red/Yellow) and only if a match in those 3 isn't available does he pick one of the other 3.

KGB

Well, the blog post is from 2015 when there weren't nearly as many passive powers in the game. Given the description of the rushed roll-out of version 1.0 of the AI's matching logic, I'd almost be surprised if the game even distinguished between active and passive powers (and if all 3 powers for hundreds of characters were each correctly classified within the game's code)?

For characters with three passive powers, their matches should be completely random. For characters with two passive powers, they should only prioritize one color and if it's not available, all other moves would be completely random. But I'm not sure if that tracks with my experience...

KGB

I love nothing more than pulling the wings off flies

@meadowsweet said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
Huh. Assuming that's still true, he doesn't actually prioritize his strongest colors directly -- he only prioritizes matches that will charge an active ability. So it's none of the things any of us thought!

Well technically the only way you can charge an active ability is by prioritizing strongest colors.

There must be more to the logic than those 2 rules though (or they changed it at some point). I know this because in the Apoc boss event, Apocs strongest color is Black which for him is a passive (I think it's his heal). My go-to team uses Cloak and Dagger + 4Carol and I let Cloak and Dagger generate infinite free Black for him which he happily matches (letting 4Carol generate 4 AP in my strongest color to disable one of his horsemen).

By the AI logic he shouldn't care at all about Black and should only prioritize Red (his only active color) and then select randomly from the remaining 5 colors. But he absolutely doesn't do that, he relentlessly picks his strongest colors (Black/Red/Yellow) and only if a match in those 3 isn't available does he pick one of the other 3.

KGB

Well, the blog post is from 2015 when there weren't nearly as many passive powers in the game. Given the description of the rushed roll-out of version 1.0 of the AI's matching logic, I'd almost be surprised if the game even distinguished between active and passive powers (and if all 3 powers for hundreds of characters were each correctly classified within the game's code)?

For characters with three passive powers, their matches should be completely random. For characters with two passive powers, they should only prioritize one color and if it's not available, all other moves would be completely random. But I'm not sure if that tracks with my experience...

Definitely doesn't track with mine.

I think 'charge it's powers' is just a euphemism for strongest colors. The comment in the code might even say charge it's power and as someone who writes code for a living I can't tell you the number of times I've seen comments (or even specs) that say one thing and the code does something else that's 'close' and no one is the wiser.

KGB

Scofie

@KGB said:

@meadowsweet said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
Huh. Assuming that's still true, he doesn't actually prioritize his strongest colors directly -- he only prioritizes matches that will charge an active ability. So it's none of the things any of us thought!

Well technically the only way you can charge an active ability is by prioritizing strongest colors.

There must be more to the logic than those 2 rules though (or they changed it at some point). I know this because in the Apoc boss event, Apocs strongest color is Black which for him is a passive (I think it's his heal). My go-to team uses Cloak and Dagger + 4Carol and I let Cloak and Dagger generate infinite free Black for him which he happily matches (letting 4Carol generate 4 AP in my strongest color to disable one of his horsemen).

By the AI logic he shouldn't care at all about Black and should only prioritize Red (his only active color) and then select randomly from the remaining 5 colors. But he absolutely doesn't do that, he relentlessly picks his strongest colors (Black/Red/Yellow) and only if a match in those 3 isn't available does he pick one of the other 3.

KGB

Well, the blog post is from 2015 when there weren't nearly as many passive powers in the game. Given the description of the rushed roll-out of version 1.0 of the AI's matching logic, I'd almost be surprised if the game even distinguished between active and passive powers (and if all 3 powers for hundreds of characters were each correctly classified within the game's code)?

For characters with three passive powers, their matches should be completely random. For characters with two passive powers, they should only prioritize one color and if it's not available, all other moves would be completely random. But I'm not sure if that tracks with my experience...

Definitely doesn't track with mine.

I think 'charge it's powers' is just a euphemism for strongest colors. The comment in the code might even say charge it's power and as someone who writes code for a living I can't tell you the number of times I've seen comments (or even specs) that say one thing and the code does something else that's 'close' and no one is the wiser.

KGB

I've seen (I think in Cosmic Chaos day 1 or the event before it) active tile movers whose strongest colours were not green collect green above the other colours because there's a Hammer goon wanting to chuck out assault rifle countdowns. Struck me as odd at the time as I figured they'd go for the active colours first.

bluewolf

Bless its stupid, familiar skull full of cotton socks.

@Scofie said:

@KGB said:

@meadowsweet said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
Huh. Assuming that's still true, he doesn't actually prioritize his strongest colors directly -- he only prioritizes matches that will charge an active ability. So it's none of the things any of us thought!

Well technically the only way you can charge an active ability is by prioritizing strongest colors.

There must be more to the logic than those 2 rules though (or they changed it at some point). I know this because in the Apoc boss event, Apocs strongest color is Black which for him is a passive (I think it's his heal). My go-to team uses Cloak and Dagger + 4Carol and I let Cloak and Dagger generate infinite free Black for him which he happily matches (letting 4Carol generate 4 AP in my strongest color to disable one of his horsemen).

By the AI logic he shouldn't care at all about Black and should only prioritize Red (his only active color) and then select randomly from the remaining 5 colors. But he absolutely doesn't do that, he relentlessly picks his strongest colors (Black/Red/Yellow) and only if a match in those 3 isn't available does he pick one of the other 3.

KGB

Well, the blog post is from 2015 when there weren't nearly as many passive powers in the game. Given the description of the rushed roll-out of version 1.0 of the AI's matching logic, I'd almost be surprised if the game even distinguished between active and passive powers (and if all 3 powers for hundreds of characters were each correctly classified within the game's code)?

For characters with three passive powers, their matches should be completely random. For characters with two passive powers, they should only prioritize one color and if it's not available, all other moves would be completely random. But I'm not sure if that tracks with my experience...

Definitely doesn't track with mine.

I think 'charge it's powers' is just a euphemism for strongest colors. The comment in the code might even say charge it's power and as someone who writes code for a living I can't tell you the number of times I've seen comments (or even specs) that say one thing and the code does something else that's 'close' and no one is the wiser.

KGB

I've seen (I think in Cosmic Chaos day 1 or the event before it) active tile movers whose strongest colours were not green collect green above the other colours because there's a Hammer goon wanting to chuck out assault rifle countdowns. Struck me as odd at the time as I figured they'd go for the active colours first.

This is definitely a thing that happens. Worth noting: In Unstable Iso-8 sub 1: pulling up the "Freeze, Buddy!" node as an example, in SCL10 2* Bullseye has his weakest color (green) match at 609. The Muscles that accompany him have all their colors at 609, so the AI would prioritize purple, black, then all colors after them equally. The Muscles are classified as 1* characters.

In the 5E you have two 3s (Daken, Bullseye) with a Thug and again the weakest of the strong colors for Daken and Bullseye are equal to all the Thug's match dmg levels. They would prioritize purple and black, then any other colors using whatever criteria the AI would use (looking for match 4/5 in a line, then probably whichever match it comes to first).

The Challenge Node has Goblin who definitely is a step above in match dmg (even if a weaker 5) so he prioritizes his colors over Ares and the Grenadier, but Ares' yellow is equal to the Grenadier's match dmg. But the Grenadier only uses green, which Ares would chase anyway once Goblin is gone.

Anyway there is going to be variance is how the AI prioritizes colors based on which tile movers are in there with non-movers, and whether their match dmg is significantly higher (probably mostly 4s and 5s).

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:

@Scofie said:

@KGB said:

@meadowsweet said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
Huh. Assuming that's still true, he doesn't actually prioritize his strongest colors directly -- he only prioritizes matches that will charge an active ability. So it's none of the things any of us thought!

Well technically the only way you can charge an active ability is by prioritizing strongest colors.

There must be more to the logic than those 2 rules though (or they changed it at some point). I know this because in the Apoc boss event, Apocs strongest color is Black which for him is a passive (I think it's his heal). My go-to team uses Cloak and Dagger + 4Carol and I let Cloak and Dagger generate infinite free Black for him which he happily matches (letting 4Carol generate 4 AP in my strongest color to disable one of his horsemen).

By the AI logic he shouldn't care at all about Black and should only prioritize Red (his only active color) and then select randomly from the remaining 5 colors. But he absolutely doesn't do that, he relentlessly picks his strongest colors (Black/Red/Yellow) and only if a match in those 3 isn't available does he pick one of the other 3.

KGB

Well, the blog post is from 2015 when there weren't nearly as many passive powers in the game. Given the description of the rushed roll-out of version 1.0 of the AI's matching logic, I'd almost be surprised if the game even distinguished between active and passive powers (and if all 3 powers for hundreds of characters were each correctly classified within the game's code)?

For characters with three passive powers, their matches should be completely random. For characters with two passive powers, they should only prioritize one color and if it's not available, all other moves would be completely random. But I'm not sure if that tracks with my experience...

Definitely doesn't track with mine.

I think 'charge it's powers' is just a euphemism for strongest colors. The comment in the code might even say charge it's power and as someone who writes code for a living I can't tell you the number of times I've seen comments (or even specs) that say one thing and the code does something else that's 'close' and no one is the wiser.

KGB

I've seen (I think in Cosmic Chaos day 1 or the event before it) active tile movers whose strongest colours were not green collect green above the other colours because there's a Hammer goon wanting to chuck out assault rifle countdowns. Struck me as odd at the time as I figured they'd go for the active colours first.

This is definitely a thing that happens. Worth noting: In Unstable Iso-8 sub 1: pulling up the "Freeze, Buddy!" node as an example, in SCL10 2* Bullseye has his weakest color (green) match at 609. The Muscles that accompany him have all their colors at 609, so the AI would prioritize purple, black, then all colors after them equally. The Muscles are classified as 1* characters.

Wouldn't the AI prioritize yellow/blue for the Muscles, since they have an ability in those colors? Or are we thinking that the blog post from whenever ago is incorrect/has changed since then?

This can easily be tested, btw. If there are hard and fast rules like this, we should be able to predict exactly what move he'll make on any given board.

Scofie

@entrailbucket said:

@bluewolf said:

@Scofie said:

@KGB said:

@meadowsweet said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
Huh. Assuming that's still true, he doesn't actually prioritize his strongest colors directly -- he only prioritizes matches that will charge an active ability. So it's none of the things any of us thought!

Well technically the only way you can charge an active ability is by prioritizing strongest colors.

There must be more to the logic than those 2 rules though (or they changed it at some point). I know this because in the Apoc boss event, Apocs strongest color is Black which for him is a passive (I think it's his heal). My go-to team uses Cloak and Dagger + 4Carol and I let Cloak and Dagger generate infinite free Black for him which he happily matches (letting 4Carol generate 4 AP in my strongest color to disable one of his horsemen).

By the AI logic he shouldn't care at all about Black and should only prioritize Red (his only active color) and then select randomly from the remaining 5 colors. But he absolutely doesn't do that, he relentlessly picks his strongest colors (Black/Red/Yellow) and only if a match in those 3 isn't available does he pick one of the other 3.

KGB

Well, the blog post is from 2015 when there weren't nearly as many passive powers in the game. Given the description of the rushed roll-out of version 1.0 of the AI's matching logic, I'd almost be surprised if the game even distinguished between active and passive powers (and if all 3 powers for hundreds of characters were each correctly classified within the game's code)?

For characters with three passive powers, their matches should be completely random. For characters with two passive powers, they should only prioritize one color and if it's not available, all other moves would be completely random. But I'm not sure if that tracks with my experience...

Definitely doesn't track with mine.

I think 'charge it's powers' is just a euphemism for strongest colors. The comment in the code might even say charge it's power and as someone who writes code for a living I can't tell you the number of times I've seen comments (or even specs) that say one thing and the code does something else that's 'close' and no one is the wiser.

KGB

I've seen (I think in Cosmic Chaos day 1 or the event before it) active tile movers whose strongest colours were not green collect green above the other colours because there's a Hammer goon wanting to chuck out assault rifle countdowns. Struck me as odd at the time as I figured they'd go for the active colours first.

This is definitely a thing that happens. Worth noting: In Unstable Iso-8 sub 1: pulling up the "Freeze, Buddy!" node as an example, in SCL10 2* Bullseye has his weakest color (green) match at 609. The Muscles that accompany him have all their colors at 609, so the AI would prioritize purple, black, then all colors after them equally. The Muscles are classified as 1* characters.

Wouldn't the AI prioritize yellow/blue for the Muscles, since they have an ability in those colors? Or are we thinking that the blog post from whenever ago is incorrect/has changed since then?

This can easily be tested, btw. If there are hard and fast rules like this, we should be able to predict exactly what move he'll make on any given board.

That's what I used to think, but anytime I leave a match-3 out thinking they'll go for it, they do something a bit odd to keep me guessing.

Borstock

I have an irrational love/hate relationship with the stupid AI. I blame it for bad stuff that happens IRL.

Broke a glass. "Stupid game!"

Dropped my phone on the bathroom floor. "I hate you, game!"

They release ANOTHER bad Superman movie. "**** you, game!!!"

entrailbucket

@Scofie said:

@entrailbucket said:

@bluewolf said:

@Scofie said:

@KGB said:

@meadowsweet said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
Huh. Assuming that's still true, he doesn't actually prioritize his strongest colors directly -- he only prioritizes matches that will charge an active ability. So it's none of the things any of us thought!

Well technically the only way you can charge an active ability is by prioritizing strongest colors.

There must be more to the logic than those 2 rules though (or they changed it at some point). I know this because in the Apoc boss event, Apocs strongest color is Black which for him is a passive (I think it's his heal). My go-to team uses Cloak and Dagger + 4Carol and I let Cloak and Dagger generate infinite free Black for him which he happily matches (letting 4Carol generate 4 AP in my strongest color to disable one of his horsemen).

By the AI logic he shouldn't care at all about Black and should only prioritize Red (his only active color) and then select randomly from the remaining 5 colors. But he absolutely doesn't do that, he relentlessly picks his strongest colors (Black/Red/Yellow) and only if a match in those 3 isn't available does he pick one of the other 3.

KGB

Well, the blog post is from 2015 when there weren't nearly as many passive powers in the game. Given the description of the rushed roll-out of version 1.0 of the AI's matching logic, I'd almost be surprised if the game even distinguished between active and passive powers (and if all 3 powers for hundreds of characters were each correctly classified within the game's code)?

For characters with three passive powers, their matches should be completely random. For characters with two passive powers, they should only prioritize one color and if it's not available, all other moves would be completely random. But I'm not sure if that tracks with my experience...

Definitely doesn't track with mine.

I think 'charge it's powers' is just a euphemism for strongest colors. The comment in the code might even say charge it's power and as someone who writes code for a living I can't tell you the number of times I've seen comments (or even specs) that say one thing and the code does something else that's 'close' and no one is the wiser.

KGB

I've seen (I think in Cosmic Chaos day 1 or the event before it) active tile movers whose strongest colours were not green collect green above the other colours because there's a Hammer goon wanting to chuck out assault rifle countdowns. Struck me as odd at the time as I figured they'd go for the active colours first.

This is definitely a thing that happens. Worth noting: In Unstable Iso-8 sub 1: pulling up the "Freeze, Buddy!" node as an example, in SCL10 2* Bullseye has his weakest color (green) match at 609. The Muscles that accompany him have all their colors at 609, so the AI would prioritize purple, black, then all colors after them equally. The Muscles are classified as 1* characters.

Wouldn't the AI prioritize yellow/blue for the Muscles, since they have an ability in those colors? Or are we thinking that the blog post from whenever ago is incorrect/has changed since then?

This can easily be tested, btw. If there are hard and fast rules like this, we should be able to predict exactly what move he'll make on any given board.

That's what I used to think, but anytime I leave a match-3 out thinking they'll go for it, they do something a bit odd to keep me guessing.

That's what I thought -- I've never been able to work out any sort of pattern to what he does. It always seemed totally random to me (or at least sufficiently random that I couldn't tell what he was trying to accomplish).

But others here seem to think he follows a predictable pattern, with defined rules. I do play really fast, so it's possible that I've been missing it all these years!

Scofie

@entrailbucket said:

@Scofie said:

@entrailbucket said:

@bluewolf said:

@Scofie said:

@KGB said:

@meadowsweet said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
Huh. Assuming that's still true, he doesn't actually prioritize his strongest colors directly -- he only prioritizes matches that will charge an active ability. So it's none of the things any of us thought!

Well technically the only way you can charge an active ability is by prioritizing strongest colors.

There must be more to the logic than those 2 rules though (or they changed it at some point). I know this because in the Apoc boss event, Apocs strongest color is Black which for him is a passive (I think it's his heal). My go-to team uses Cloak and Dagger + 4Carol and I let Cloak and Dagger generate infinite free Black for him which he happily matches (letting 4Carol generate 4 AP in my strongest color to disable one of his horsemen).

By the AI logic he shouldn't care at all about Black and should only prioritize Red (his only active color) and then select randomly from the remaining 5 colors. But he absolutely doesn't do that, he relentlessly picks his strongest colors (Black/Red/Yellow) and only if a match in those 3 isn't available does he pick one of the other 3.

KGB

Well, the blog post is from 2015 when there weren't nearly as many passive powers in the game. Given the description of the rushed roll-out of version 1.0 of the AI's matching logic, I'd almost be surprised if the game even distinguished between active and passive powers (and if all 3 powers for hundreds of characters were each correctly classified within the game's code)?

For characters with three passive powers, their matches should be completely random. For characters with two passive powers, they should only prioritize one color and if it's not available, all other moves would be completely random. But I'm not sure if that tracks with my experience...

Definitely doesn't track with mine.

I think 'charge it's powers' is just a euphemism for strongest colors. The comment in the code might even say charge it's power and as someone who writes code for a living I can't tell you the number of times I've seen comments (or even specs) that say one thing and the code does something else that's 'close' and no one is the wiser.

KGB

I've seen (I think in Cosmic Chaos day 1 or the event before it) active tile movers whose strongest colours were not green collect green above the other colours because there's a Hammer goon wanting to chuck out assault rifle countdowns. Struck me as odd at the time as I figured they'd go for the active colours first.

This is definitely a thing that happens. Worth noting: In Unstable Iso-8 sub 1: pulling up the "Freeze, Buddy!" node as an example, in SCL10 2* Bullseye has his weakest color (green) match at 609. The Muscles that accompany him have all their colors at 609, so the AI would prioritize purple, black, then all colors after them equally. The Muscles are classified as 1* characters.

Wouldn't the AI prioritize yellow/blue for the Muscles, since they have an ability in those colors? Or are we thinking that the blog post from whenever ago is incorrect/has changed since then?

This can easily be tested, btw. If there are hard and fast rules like this, we should be able to predict exactly what move he'll make on any given board.

That's what I used to think, but anytime I leave a match-3 out thinking they'll go for it, they do something a bit odd to keep me guessing.

That's what I thought -- I've never been able to work out any sort of pattern to what he does. It always seemed totally random to me (or at least sufficiently random that I couldn't tell what he was trying to accomplish).

But others here seem to think he follows a predictable pattern, with defined rules. I do play really fast, so it's possible that I've been missing it all these years!

@bluewolf's point above is good though, in that perhaps where colours are tied for damage and multiple powers exist, the AI makes a random choice, even if the choice is a passive, or a goon power. It may even do that at the start of the battle and only change priority when one or more of the team is downed. Lots of variables though.