Can anyone clearly communicate the current state of tanking?

Unknown

I'm a bit confused on the current state of tanking. A few weeks back, I started hearing rumours tanking was gone.

Then an alliance member said he tried it, and it's fine!

Then I tried it (via 30 losses of retreat tanking) and it did nothing.

Since then it's been back and forth the whole time - yes it's gone, no it still works. The closest I can come to any sense of this is that retreat-tanking is gone, but tanking via defensive losses (or wipes, not a retreat) still works.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Unknown

Ruval wrote:

retreat-tanking is gone, but tanking via defensive losses (or wipes, not a retreat) still works.

Unknown

Retreat tanking had been removed a long time ago, iirc.

From what I can tell, tanking (actually losing) in specific events (LR's and Shield) has been greatly diminished.

MarvelMan

I have no confirmation, but it seems that the team you last fought with has a much greater impact on future opponents than tanking. During the Cage Match I was seeing all teams of 212/141/141 but I went with Frank/OBW/loaner in P&P and by the second round on my nodes I was seeing non maxed teams.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Retreat tanking had been removed a long time ago, iirc.

From what I can tell, tanking (actually losing) in specific events (LR's and Shield) has been greatly diminished.

I know I could retreat tank maybe 4-6 weeks ago. I wish they'd announce this stuff.

Setting up LR tanking just takes so much more work - only to do it again an hour later.

Unknown

Ruval wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

Retreat tanking had been removed a long time ago, iirc.

From what I can tell, tanking (actually losing) in specific events (LR's and Shield) has been greatly diminished.

I know I could retreat tank maybe 4-6 weeks ago. I wish they'd announce this stuff.

Setting up LR tanking just takes so much more work - only to do it again an hour later.

Why would they announce that retreat tanking no longer works? Tanking is really just gaming the system, intentionally losing in order to better your odds in the future. This is frowned upon in every game I know of. Doesn't seem that ridiculous that they would make the change and not bother to let anyone know.

Unknown

Ruval wrote:

I know I could retreat tank maybe 4-6 weeks ago. I wish they'd announce this stuff.

Setting up LR tanking just takes so much more work - only to do it again an hour later.

Here's an interesting quote I dug up:

IceIX wrote:
There's no way we could update the tie system before the end of Hulk. As to tanking to lower MMR: It doesn't do as much as it used to since we've been tweaking the algorithm to account for things like that. Basically, if you lose more often in a sudden fashion when you weren't losing like that before, it starts putting the brakes on your MMR losses. So while you would drop a little, you're not going to be hitting a free ride for much more than a few matchups before you recover the MMR you had before. Lightning rounds as well have a lesser effect on MMR than any other Tourney We'll continue to change around the matchmaking system as people figure out neat ways to sidestep our current methodologies. We don't consider it an exploit to do what players are doing, but it *is* gaming the system. Sort of like counting cards.

Unknown

Just a gentle reminder that even if tanking DID still work (which it totally does not) we would not talk about it ON THE OFFICIAL FORUMS WHERE THEY CAN SEE IT.*

Thread over.

*But let's not be too hard on the other handsome devil who made that mistake.

Unknown

The first rule of Tank Club is...

Unknown

Sniped wrote:

Ruval wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

Retreat tanking had been removed a long time ago, iirc.

From what I can tell, tanking (actually losing) in specific events (LR's and Shield) has been greatly diminished.

I know I could retreat tank maybe 4-6 weeks ago. I wish they'd announce this stuff.

Setting up LR tanking just takes so much more work - only to do it again an hour later.

Why would they announce that retreat tanking no longer works? Tanking is really just gaming the system, intentionally losing in order to better your odds in the future. This is frowned upon in every game I know of. Doesn't seem that ridiculous that they would make the change and not bother to let anyone know.

Actually, IceIX called it a necessary evil given the current system. They've purposely left avenues available if you look to find them.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Here's an interesting quote I dug up:

IceIX wrote:
There's no way we could update the tie system before the end of Hulk. As to tanking to lower MMR: It doesn't do as much as it used to since we've been tweaking the algorithm to account for things like that. Basically, if you lose more often in a sudden fashion when you weren't losing like that before, it starts putting the brakes on your MMR losses. So while you would drop a little, you're not going to be hitting a free ride for much more than a few matchups before you recover the MMR you had before. Lightning rounds as well have a lesser effect on MMR than any other Tourney We'll continue to change around the matchmaking system as people figure out neat ways to sidestep our current methodologies. We don't consider it an exploit to do what players are doing, but it *is* gaming the system. Sort of like counting cards.

He said that when all kinds of tanking had huge impact. And you actually could tank your MMR down to lvl20 juggernauts without problem and get even to full-85 teams just by the end of the tournament. (If this particular note is not from that time, he definitely said that same **** well before.)

You can also find quotes where he states the ELO system makes sense for this setup, and that is can not be played at all, as it is self-correcting within a few games.

Certainly in the meantime the system indeed is pretty much one-way ticket to MMR hell, losses count with 1/0 or even lower weight and retreat probably is not counted at all (or you need some other factors for it to count). It's also unclear how MMR works cross events. It definitely carries through season Versus normal events. i didn't see reliable data on how LR and shield now has influence. The reports of "no effect" might just not be patient enough to get to it -- or those arenas may use a distinct MMR without much crosstalk.

Also those who know working methods are unlikely to talk about them in forums after devs showed interest to plug such "holes" in the system. Or just to keep an edge for self or a small company.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

He said that when all kinds of tanking had huge impact. And you actually could tank your MMR down to lvl20 juggernauts without problem and get even to full-85 teams just by the end of the tournament. (If this particular note is not from that time, he definitely said that same **** well before.)

You can also find quotes where he states the ELO system makes sense for this setup, and that is can not be played at all, as it is self-correcting within a few games.

Certainly in the meantime the system indeed is pretty much one-way ticket to MMR hell, losses count with 1/0 or even lower weight and retreat probably is not counted at all (or you need some other factors for it to count). It's also unclear how MMR works cross events. It definitely carries through season Versus normal events. i didn't see reliable data on how LR and shield now has influence. The reports of "no effect" might just not be patient enough to get to it -- or those arenas may use a distinct MMR without much crosstalk.

Also those who know working methods are unlikely to talk about them in forums after devs showed interest to plug such "holes" in the system. Or just to keep an edge for self or a small company.

I posted something in another thread that might be relevant
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8967#p160040