I'm dying here - can't tank hard enough

Unknown

So I used to tank by going into the SHIELD training in the story mode and starting matches and retreating. I've got a full roster (unfortunately with only a few covers each) so I could do this for a while to get my mmr down. This helped me get the covers I needed to push into the 3-star game.

With SHIELD training now moved into the PVP Season side, when I retreat several teams, I just can't seem to get any easier opponents. I play fairly actively, so in PVP I'm up against teams that are challenging to impossible.

Before I'd also tank by getting to a point range, then taking on a seed team with a crummy team. This would get me some attacks and lower my mmr, but now I'm not getting seed teams. I can't take a crummy team up against fully leveled 3 star team.

I don't really know what to do. To get to the point where I can actually stand a chance against these teams, I need those 3 star cover prizes, but getting to 300 has become difficult, which laughably only gets me a less than 1% chance at a new hero. Halp.

franckynight

Unfortunately tanking is not in the meta anymore.. transitionning from 2-3* seems to be more of a waiting game now.. i've read that some reverted back to a 85* team to face again 85* teams and stand a chance to comptete again in pvp.. with the new sharding it seems that when you reached a certain level (100 + chars or an extended period of time 150+ days) you are parked with the veteran group.. whatever.. patience is your best friend and hopefully you'll get through this..

Unknown

What difference does it make if you lose to a 3* steam rather than a seed team? I don't get. Isn't the point to lose to adjust your win/loss ratio. It's to exploit game mechanics that use wins and losses to determine the difficulty of opponents. I don't need to tank to get good scores so I'm terribly inexperience at tanking.

Moral

In a world where wins and losses determine your MMR, retreats and disconnects are a draw.

As far as the system is concerned you didn't even play the match.

Which, ironically, you didn't.

Unknown

franckynight wrote:

Unfortunately tanking is not in the meta anymore.. transitionning from 2-3* seems to be more of a waiting game now.. i've read that some reverted back to a 85* team to face again 85* teams and stand a chance to comptete again in pvp.. with the new sharding it seems that when you reached a certain level (100 + chars or an extended period of time 150+ days) you are parked with the veteran group.. whatever.. patience is your best friend and hopefully you'll get through this..

With my roster I have the opportunity to select any lineup I want. It seems to me that there is a memory of teams that you used to win. When you start winning with 3-star characters, then you'll start facing 3-star characters. If you stop using the 3-star character you might lose more often, but you'll eventually stop facing those teams.

No matter how strong you get, there will always be someone stronger than you.

Unknown

Simpler solution: abandon MPQ for good -- it punishes progression while the only interesting thing would b exactly that. So no fruits for you here really.

The devs decided they milk newcomers for fool's money, after that it's not interesting what happens to player.

MarvelMan

Bugpop wrote:

What difference does it make if you lose to a 3* steam rather than a seed team? I don't get. Isn't the point to lose to adjust your win/loss ratio. It's to exploit game mechanics that use wins and losses to determine the difficulty of opponents. I don't need to tank to get good scores so I'm terribly inexperience at tanking.

What (s)he was trying to illustrate was something like in a LR beating all the seed teams to get up to almost 200, while leaving one (freerange?) so you have a low level team when you are done pushing. Take a **** team, beat them and then the defensive team you are showing is weak so people are much more willing to attack you.

I did this during the mid part of my 3* push as I was facing teams that had a 141 plus OBW and featured while my 3* was in the 90s to low 100s. It would get me back to fighting a pair of maxed 2*s and featured: a much more even battle. It seems that the effect of tanking has gone way down, with the team you last fought with as a much bigger influence on the next few opponents.

Unknown

Unless people with 3* covers are quitting faster than the rate 2* players are transitioning to 3*, shouldn't one expect there to be more and more 3* enemies over the time and thus facing high level (or maxed) 3* to become the norm?

It seems to me people are wondering how they can be matched up with people weaker than they are. That might be possible back when the MMR system isn't very good and there are very few players with 3* roster so even a good MMR system might not have a choice simply due to a lack of qualified opponents, but that was the past. Like Bugpop says it seems like the game roughly divides you into some kind of league based on what team you've used, so if you're using a 3* team you're always in the 3* league, even when you have 0 PvP points, and if you want to go to the 2* league then you should start using your 2*s.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Unless people with 3* covers are quitting faster than the rate 2* players are transitioning to 3*, shouldn't one expect there to be more and more 3* enemies over the time and thus facing high level (or maxed) 3* to become the norm?

It seems to me people are wondering how they can be matched up with people weaker than they are. That might be possible back when the MMR system isn't very good and there are very few players with 3* roster so even a good MMR system might not have a choice simply due to a lack of qualified opponents, but that was the past. Like Bugpop says it seems like the game roughly divides you into some kind of league based on what team you've used, so if you're using a 3* team you're always in the 3* league, even when you have 0 PvP points, and if you want to go to the 2* league then you should start using your 2*s.

Is that how it works now? So the moral is, stick to 2*s until you can make a strong transition to 3*s? I wish I knew that sooner. The logic does sort of make sense, and that would explain why my friend has been facing level 85 max chars while I have been facing lvl 141s ever since season 2 started. She has a bunch of 3*s at lvl 90s, but doesn't use them because they aren't that good with missing covers.

Unknown

malfunkshen wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Unless people with 3* covers are quitting faster than the rate 2* players are transitioning to 3*, shouldn't one expect there to be more and more 3* enemies over the time and thus facing high level (or maxed) 3* to become the norm?

It seems to me people are wondering how they can be matched up with people weaker than they are. That might be possible back when the MMR system isn't very good and there are very few players with 3* roster so even a good MMR system might not have a choice simply due to a lack of qualified opponents, but that was the past. Like Bugpop says it seems like the game roughly divides you into some kind of league based on what team you've used, so if you're using a 3* team you're always in the 3* league, even when you have 0 PvP points, and if you want to go to the 2* league then you should start using your 2*s.

Is that how it works now? So the moral is, stick to 2*s until you can make a strong transition to 3*s? I wish I knew that sooner. The logic does sort of make sense, and that would explain why my friend has been facing level 85 max chars while I have been facing lvl 141s ever since season 2 started. She has a bunch of 3*s at lvl 90s, but doesn't use them because they aren't that good with missing covers.

Well you have to ask Bugpop because he seems to be the only one who have experience in trying this. I know from my point of view my 3* team is always matched against 3*s, other than the guys who clearly chose to use OBW for her support role despite having other 3*s that are high level (or even 141). Remember that the matchmaking system does get somewhat relaxed at the higher end of PvP points, simply due to a lack of qualified opponents.

Unknown

I will frequently challenge myself against more difficult opponents by using lower tiered characters. A concerted effort to do well has an impact on changing the level of your opponents, when using a lower level lineup than your opponent. It's possible to win against a max-level 3-star lineup with a 1-star lineup, as I've done it several times (pre-nerf ragnarok, Grey Widow, and IM40 for instance). It is hard and it's usually not possible. Modern Storm and lucky cascades in the forest with Modern Widow and Widow's sting.

Something that tracks what might be considered effort. AP spent, magnitude of damage dealt, number of turns, AP opponent spent, and Magnitude of damage received seem to be factors. I'm somewhat fond of Juggernaut.

It's my opinion that keeping the algorithm in a simple state, it doesn't check what abilities were used. I'm thinking this is why Spider-Man in lineup seemed to inflate opponent leveled in PVE. It checks your HP going in and going out. If you didn't lose any (from a win, or by retreating) opponents stay the same or increase.

Much is just what I've seen and I've done a lot of speculation. It would be better for others that have an opportunity to make a good faith effort bringing their 1-star characters into battle against the 3-star characters to see what effect it might have. Posted results might shed light on how it might work.