Time to swap the 4* monthly release for 1*?

Tony_Foot

The 4* tier is a bloated mess. Personally I take zero notice of any new 4* release and don't even champ them anymore. (Until they get to 100 saved covers sometime in the distant future). Unless someone on the forum or line is raving about the skill set I don't even read about them.

The new ascend feature though makes me think they would be much better off for a variety of reasons having a pause on 4* releases and changing it to 1*. I doubt there's been better money generators from mid to lower tier or even previous non spenders than that £19.99 ascended 1*.

I think people are far more likely to want to chase a 1* now than the four star. Rolling that 1* on is far more appealing to me than two 370 four stars. You also open up that chase to much lower tier players than demands for almost any 4* will create.

Kill the 4*, long live the 1* tier! I've been a non spender for probably 7+ years but would now buy a 1* every other month even duplicate for the rewards. Far better value than VIP.

DrClever

Or...

Ascension means the 4* tier is now where it's at. What felt like a bloated mess with one super team and a few interesting quirks that could mostly be skipped on the way to fivestarland is now the kindergarten of the future stars - the breadth of powers, the combinations, and synergies will revitalise the game and so should be the main focus for devs and players.

Meanwhile ascending 1* characters is a definite improvement to the problem of what the heck to do with all those covers, but just buying the pre-ascended versions is an economy-destroying move if new ones are released - they are so obviously preposterous value compared with trying to get a fully covered character at that level any other way that they would have to be designed to be notably inferior.

bigjojo04

I would honestly not mind them adding new 1* characters especially if it was for more minor/obscure characters. Like we wouldn’t need a 1* Captain America or Thor or some one big, more like Aunt May, Mary Jane, Balder, Rintrah, something along those lines.

bluewolf

There is no good reason to add 1s.

Diluting the tier means people will get more spread out rewards. You can’t favorite 1s or 2s so you would get slower progression.

The 1 tier is extremely small because new players are rostering them first, and the game wants you to experience a rapid improvement in character progression as the hook to keep you playing. So if you say just doubled it to the size of the 2 tier, the new player would double their time spent maxing them out. It would likely make the early game much harder because you might get bad cover pulls etc.

Note that the tier progression is already slowing down because they are adding 3rd powers to all the former 2 power characters for the benefit of vets so they can ascend them. We all know how RNG can suck and give you the wrong color many times in a row; you can’t save 1* covers and if you want a specific color for a character it’s now going to be 33% instead of 50% for all the ones that used to have 2 powers.

Obviously as a long time vet your concern is for your experience, not the new people who need to come in for the game to survive. But they don’t need a bigger tier.

DAZ0273

@DrClever said:
Or...

Ascension means the 4* tier is now where it's at. What felt like a bloated mess with one super team and a few interesting quirks that could mostly be skipped on the way to fivestarland is now the kindergarten of the future stars - the breadth of powers, the combinations, and synergies will revitalise the game and so should be the main focus for devs and players.

Meanwhile ascending 1* characters is a definite improvement to the problem of what the heck to do with all those covers, but just buying the pre-ascended versions is an economy-destroying move if new ones are released - they are so obviously preposterous value compared with trying to get a fully covered character at that level any other way that they would have to be designed to be notably inferior.

If 4* level is where it's gonna be at then they need to finally address the dis-proportionate iso levelling costs now we need two of each.

Tony_Foot

@bluewolf said:

Obviously as a long time vet your concern is for your experience, not the new people who need to come in for the game to survive. But they don’t need a bigger tier.

It would rapidly accelerate them into the higher tiers. They could pretty much bypass the two and three stars completely. Especially if they spent a few pounds on a couple off ascended.

Look, new one stars are coming. I'd just rather they came at the expense of a 4 star or 3* on the double release, rather than as well as. I think the 4* is the most bloated by a some margin but I'd take the 5* release being with a 1*.

primetime21

I wish they would do away with the 3* release along with the 5*. I know they are different characters (most only very slightly different) but it makes the 5* feel less special IMO.

ThaRoadWarrior

Man, I really hope they don’t blow out the 1* tier; right now they are as valuable as they’ve ever been with ascendancy, but since they can’t be earned on purpose or favorited, and they don’t feed anyone as they grow the ranks, they are basically Limited characters.

meadowsweet

There's no rule that says they must release three new characters every four weeks. I feel like all the tiers are bloated and dilution makes it difficult to focus on anyone. But I don't think the solution is to spread the problem to the 1★ & 2★ tiers as well.

Maybe the new releases keep the whales and addicts playing, chasing, and hoarding, and that's why they do it: to increase overall engagement, as well as hours and dollars spent? But it's honestly just caused a player like me to burn out, give up, and play a lot less than I used to...

Bowgentle

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Man, I really hope they don’t blow out the 1* tier; right now they are as valuable as they’ve ever been with ascendancy, but since they can’t be earned on purpose or favorited, and they don’t feed anyone as they grow the ranks, they are basically Limited characters.

They probably looked at the rate people are gaining rewards from the 5* versions and went "whoa, we didn't mean to do that. Gotta slow that growth down."

meadowsweet

@Bowgentle said:
They probably looked at the rate people are gaining rewards from the 5* versions and went "whoa, we didn't mean to do that. Gotta slow that growth down."

But that was the most predictable thing in the world... I know, because I predicted it not long after they announced Champions 2.0: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/1021182#Comment_1021182

Bowgentle

Yeah but that doesn't factor in the pre-ascended versions.
Those are WAY too good reward factories.
4s on the other hand take a lifetime to gain a single level, thanks to the 4:1 ratio.

entrailbucket

@meadowsweet said:
There's no rule that says they must release three new characters every four weeks. I feel like all the tiers are bloated and dilution makes it difficult to focus on anyone. But I don't think the solution is to spread the problem to the 1★ & 2★ tiers as well.

Maybe the new releases keep the whales and addicts playing, chasing, and hoarding, and that's why they do it: to increase overall engagement, as well as hours and dollars spent? But it's honestly just caused a player like me to burn out, give up, and play a lot less than I used to...

They actually sorta kinda must release three new characters every four weeks. New characters are how they make money -- selling roster slots, and increasing dilution which forces folks to buy roster slots.

If they ever drop off that pace without a major, obvious new revenue source, something has gone very wrong.

meadowsweet

@entrailbucket said:

@meadowsweet said:
There's no rule that says they must release three new characters every four weeks. I feel like all the tiers are bloated and dilution makes it difficult to focus on anyone. But I don't think the solution is to spread the problem to the 1★ & 2★ tiers as well.

Maybe the new releases keep the whales and addicts playing, chasing, and hoarding, and that's why they do it: to increase overall engagement, as well as hours and dollars spent? But it's honestly just caused a player like me to burn out, give up, and play a lot less than I used to...

They actually sorta kinda must release three new characters every four weeks. New characters are how they make money -- selling roster slots, and increasing dilution which forces folks to buy roster slots.

If they ever drop off that pace without a major, obvious new revenue source, something has gone very wrong.

Well, they must continue to make a profit, or the company will shut the game down. But you're mistaken in arguing that releasing three new characters every four weeks is the only way to make a profit, such that they must continue doing that.

I'm not even sure that it's sustainable - they're still profitable for now, but does anyone want to play this game when there's 1,000 different characters? How intimidating is it for a new player that needs to purchase 1,000 roster slots and champion 1,000 characters and struggles to ever randomly pull a second cover for one of their 1,000 rostered characters, much less thirteen?

BriMan2222

@meadowsweet said:

@entrailbucket said:

@meadowsweet said:
There's no rule that says they must release three new characters every four weeks. I feel like all the tiers are bloated and dilution makes it difficult to focus on anyone. But I don't think the solution is to spread the problem to the 1★ & 2★ tiers as well.

Maybe the new releases keep the whales and addicts playing, chasing, and hoarding, and that's why they do it: to increase overall engagement, as well as hours and dollars spent? But it's honestly just caused a player like me to burn out, give up, and play a lot less than I used to...

They actually sorta kinda must release three new characters every four weeks. New characters are how they make money -- selling roster slots, and increasing dilution which forces folks to buy roster slots.

If they ever drop off that pace without a major, obvious new revenue source, something has gone very wrong.

Well, they must continue to make a profit, or the company will shut the game down. But you're mistaken in arguing that releasing three new characters every four weeks is the only way to make a profit, such that they must continue doing that.

I'm not even sure that it's sustainable - they're still profitable for now, but does anyone want to play this game when there's 1,000 different characters? How intimidating is it for a new player that needs to purchase 1,000 roster slots and champion 1,000 characters and struggles to ever randomly pull a second cover for one of their 1,000 rostered characters, much less thirteen?

People have been saying this for like 7 years now, but they just keep chugging along with the same schedule so it must be working for them.

DAZ0273

@BriMan2222 said:

@meadowsweet said:

@entrailbucket said:

@meadowsweet said:
There's no rule that says they must release three new characters every four weeks. I feel like all the tiers are bloated and dilution makes it difficult to focus on anyone. But I don't think the solution is to spread the problem to the 1★ & 2★ tiers as well.

Maybe the new releases keep the whales and addicts playing, chasing, and hoarding, and that's why they do it: to increase overall engagement, as well as hours and dollars spent? But it's honestly just caused a player like me to burn out, give up, and play a lot less than I used to...

They actually sorta kinda must release three new characters every four weeks. New characters are how they make money -- selling roster slots, and increasing dilution which forces folks to buy roster slots.

If they ever drop off that pace without a major, obvious new revenue source, something has gone very wrong.

Well, they must continue to make a profit, or the company will shut the game down. But you're mistaken in arguing that releasing three new characters every four weeks is the only way to make a profit, such that they must continue doing that.

I'm not even sure that it's sustainable - they're still profitable for now, but does anyone want to play this game when there's 1,000 different characters? How intimidating is it for a new player that needs to purchase 1,000 roster slots and champion 1,000 characters and struggles to ever randomly pull a second cover for one of their 1,000 rostered characters, much less thirteen?

People have been saying this for like 7 years now, but they just keep chugging along with the same schedule so it must be working for them.

I agree that the release schedule is clearly locked in and the Devs obviously have no data that suggests they need to change this.

What Champions 2.0 made me realise that even if you have played this game for the nearly 8 years that I have, the treadmill just goes on. I thought I was doing well, keeping up with champing 4* and new 5s and bringing up the classic 5s to being champed. Then they went and pulled the rug and suddenly I was behind the 8 ball in terms of being prepared for ascending. So all I can do is keep going or quit and I think the Devs are fully aware of this.

The marathon goes on and I don't think extra 1* or a reduction in new releases will make any difference. All I can do is just play the game as best I can and not worry about other people's shiny or "keeping up".

entrailbucket

@BriMan2222 said:

@meadowsweet said:

@entrailbucket said:

@meadowsweet said:
There's no rule that says they must release three new characters every four weeks. I feel like all the tiers are bloated and dilution makes it difficult to focus on anyone. But I don't think the solution is to spread the problem to the 1★ & 2★ tiers as well.

Maybe the new releases keep the whales and addicts playing, chasing, and hoarding, and that's why they do it: to increase overall engagement, as well as hours and dollars spent? But it's honestly just caused a player like me to burn out, give up, and play a lot less than I used to...

They actually sorta kinda must release three new characters every four weeks. New characters are how they make money -- selling roster slots, and increasing dilution which forces folks to buy roster slots.

If they ever drop off that pace without a major, obvious new revenue source, something has gone very wrong.

Well, they must continue to make a profit, or the company will shut the game down. But you're mistaken in arguing that releasing three new characters every four weeks is the only way to make a profit, such that they must continue doing that.

I'm not even sure that it's sustainable - they're still profitable for now, but does anyone want to play this game when there's 1,000 different characters? How intimidating is it for a new player that needs to purchase 1,000 roster slots and champion 1,000 characters and struggles to ever randomly pull a second cover for one of their 1,000 rostered characters, much less thirteen?

People have been saying this for like 7 years now, but they just keep chugging along with the same schedule so it must be working for them.

Yeah, I hate to make this argument, but the reason we know people aren't fed up/overwhelmed/burning out on new releases is that they haven't altered the release schedule.

We can assume that they track revenue metrics, if absolutely nothing else, and also that if revenue started dropping, they'd adjust (or just die, but I don't think that's their first choice). Since they haven't changed anything about the schedule in awhile, it's probably safe to assume that it's working.

Bowgentle

Don't forget, we went from 2 characters per month to 3 when BCS took over.
So if anything, the release schedule will be accelerated, not slowed down.

ThaRoadWarrior

We did have that brief foray into “bonus releases” with 4* she-hulk that went over like a ton of bricks too.

Scofie

So if I had to guess, I'd think the monthly release of costumes and supports are testing new non- character revenue streams. Whatever drops has the lowest cost/benefit ratio, or the character revenue for the 3* earns more than either of the other 2.

I'd be fine with a staggered release, and new 1 and 2*s every few months. So a 1/3/2/3 repeat, alongside a4 and a 5 each month would be OK too.

Borstock

I want quicker access to the 4* rewards. A 1* release now just dilutes the pool and makes leveling ascensed characters take even longer.