Simulator "Stacks" Theorycrafting

Tharos

morgh wrote:

Having to play every 2.5 hours vs. having to play every 12 hours is a damn big a change... and a terrible one too...

You HAVE TO play more... unless you don't care about the rewards like thankfully in this event... and you STILL need to play the last refresh as close as possible to the end...

One "mini-refresh" every 2.5 hours does not mean that you "HAVE TO" play this often. With the rubberbandding in action, whenever you play (2 hours after last clear of 15 hours after, it does not matter) you can go back to #1 if you do a full clear of essential nodes and sometimes one or two battles on the two biggest classic nodes. It worked for me.

The positive point is that now, I can play when I want, even if less than 12 hours happens. And when I could not play for nearly 20 hours, I could go back as easily as before.
So now, is is really easier to get progression rewards if you can't play at the end of a sub.

The negative point is the same as it was before: in order to be competitive for placement rewards, you have to play as close as possible to the end. But it is not worse than it used to be.

atomzed

Tharos wrote:

morgh wrote:

The negative point is the same as it was before: in order to be competitive for placement rewards, you have to play as close as possible to the end. But it is not worse than it used to be.

I personally think that it is much worst, because in the past, if you can't play in the final 2 hours, you could still grind some points ahead, and let community scaling prevent players from attempting to catch up in final 2 hours.

This is not the case for the sims (at least for me). It seems that my missions scaling is minimal, and I can grind to top 1st with 3/4 missions. That means that if I don't play in final few hours, i'm screwed, as ANYONE can make up for the deficit in last few hours.

This pve scoring is so different from Sentry PVE... i'm wondering whether they are just experimenting with different scoring systems. I much prefer the Sentry PVE system though....

morgh

Tharos wrote:

One "mini-refresh" every 2.5 hours does not mean that you "HAVE TO" play this often. With the rubberbandding in action, whenever you play (2 hours after last clear of 15 hours after, it does not matter) you can go back to #1 if you do a full clear of essential nodes and sometimes one or two battles on the two biggest classic nodes. It worked for me.

Umm not really - if you do not play every 2.5 hours, you "lose" points - if you can get ~3k points every 2.5 hours and you only play once every 12 hours, well then guess what - you have 3k instead of almost 12k... see the difference? it means that since there's a lot of people who seem to be glued to their phones/computers, you either do the same or start lagging behind

Tharos

morgh wrote:

Tharos wrote:

One "mini-refresh" every 2.5 hours does not mean that you "HAVE TO" play this often. With the rubberbandding in action, whenever you play (2 hours after last clear of 15 hours after, it does not matter) you can go back to #1 if you do a full clear of essential nodes and sometimes one or two battles on the two biggest classic nodes. It worked for me.

Umm not really - if you do not play every 2.5 hours, you "lose" points - if you can get ~3k points every 2.5 hours and you only play once every 12 hours, well then guess what - you have 3k instead of almost 12k... see the difference? it means that since there's a lot of people who seem to be glued to their phones/computers, you either do the same or start lagging behind

With rubberdanbing, if you do not play during 12 hours, you get much more than 3k points (more than 1000 points for a single battle with featured character). I agree with your theory if rubberbanding is missing, but it is not the case in this event.

morgh

Umm I think that there is rubberbanding cap - so this has to be factored in... the "cap" would be how far away you are from the leader...
If in 3 consecutive 2.5-hour refreshes I have all the essentials at ~1100, which means getting around 3.5 for all 3 and 10.500 for 3 refreshes, I seriously doubt that they all would be worth 3200 each after I left them alone for 7.5 hours... the Rubberbanding cap limits one's gains

EDIT - after I woke up today they were still worth their max available every 2.5 hours now - which is ~1100

Unknown

morgh wrote:

Umm I think that there is rubberbanding cap - so this has to be factored in... the "cap" would be how far away you are from the leader...
If in 3 consecutive 2.5-hour refreshes I have all the essentials at ~1100, which means getting around 3.5 for all 3 and 10.500 for 3 refreshes, I seriously doubt that they all would be worth 3200 each after I left them alone for 7.5 hours... the Rubberbanding cap limits one's gains

EDIT - after I woke up today they were still worth their max available every 2.5 hours now - which is ~1100

There should be more about that. Without knowing of these changes I sticked to the old "one run every 12 hours" routine and I ha the nodes go up to 1500 points and I've heard of people with 1900 nodes.

morgh

Well of course this depends on your place in relation to global sub-bracket leader

Unknown

Due to social life ( ), i started the simulator late, around 8h before round 1 ends. I have a recent 85 roster (only 4 maxed, not enough iso for the other ), the entry level were around 35, and 40 for hard mode. The essentials nodes were around level 30 and 45 for hard mode. When I started, the n°1 in the main event was around 50k.

For the normal mode, rewards for essentials nodes was 1,5k point, and for hard mode 3k points (exactly, not like 2968 point). Normal last node was 1k if my memory is good. I don't know for hard, level was too high for me.

With high rewards and low levels, I managed to gain around 35 k points in less than 1,5 hour. I could have harvested maybe 5k more, but real life come back again

However, i was top 5 in normal and hard mode (when i stopped, top 50 at the end, thanks to my european time zone ...), but 'only' 30th of the main, still 20k below leader. Even if the game make me score good points, it will be totally impossible for me to be in top 30 (and it'k OK, I miss 2 days).

For now, after 15 h since last played game, essential node in hard are at 1,2k for me.

Don't know if my experience could help you understand mechanic (before it changes again )

Unknown

morgh wrote:

Having to play every 2.5 hours vs. having to play every 12 hours is a damn big a change... and a terrible one too...

You HAVE TO play more... unless you don't care about the rewards like thankfully in this event... and you STILL need to play the last refresh as close as possible to the end...

You absolutely don't have to. Just playing that way gets you similar end points playing *fewer* games.

Unknown

The bracket leader has a lot higher points than a normal event, so it might feel like you have to play more to keep up.

Unknown

These new 2h15m refreshes make a lot of sense - if the next PVE subs end when a progress bar fills instead of ending at a set time.

The 12-hour stack refreshes did not work last time in part because everyone was waiting for the final 10 million points to do their final clears. A more flexible refresh system partially mitigates this.

mohio

zapzap wrote:

Due to social life ( ), i started the simulator late, around 8h before round 1 ends. I have a recent 85 roster (only 4 maxed, not enough iso for the other ), the entry level were around 35, and 40 for hard mode. The essentials nodes were around level 30 and 45 for hard mode. When I started, the n°1 in the main event was around 50k.

For the normal mode, rewards for essentials nodes was 1,5k point, and for hard mode 3k points (exactly, not like 2968 point). Normal last node was 1k if my memory is good. I don't know for hard, level was too high for me.

With high rewards and low levels, I managed to gain around 35 k points in less than 1,5 hour. I could have harvested maybe 5k more, but real life come back again

However, i was top 5 in normal and hard mode (when i stopped, top 50 at the end, thanks to my european time zone ...), but 'only' 30th of the main, still 20k below leader. Even if the game make me score good points, it will be totally impossible for me to be in top 30 (and it'k OK, I miss 2 days).

For now, after 15 h since last played game, essential node in hard are at 1,2k for me.

Don't know if my experience could help you understand mechanic (before it changes again )

Yeah, this is what I did in the first sub too. The normal nodes had their caps like 500, 1000, then essentials 1500 (and obviously doubled in hard). I grinded a little more than you it sounds. Got up to ~41k just from one time playing through the nodes in normal and hard (basically beating everything until they were worth <200 or so). It's certainly not "ideal" since you are essentially losing rubberbanding points from having it capped out, but it allowed me to get into top 50 main with just one session. I haven't really been noticing the 2.5 hour thing, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn it's more an effect of the rubberband than the base value of the nodes updating every 5 minutes. Has this actually been confirmed somehow?

Unknown

I'm certain the 'ilttle bit every 5 minutes' thing is exactly what is happening. I can't recall exact numbers, but you should be able to get the idea.

Before I read the thread or starting playing, I noticed all my hard essentially nodes were exactly the same - 1600 points. I did one node once. It was now worth about 1200 points and the other essentials had dropped some (more points = less rubberbanding) to 1525 or so.

I did the same essential once more. It's now worth around 850, with the others being at 1400 or so. I move on to the next essential node and do it twice, then the next node and do it twice.

In the old system - all would be worth the exact same amount of points - 60% of their full-stack value. That's not the case. Let's say due to my increased score and lowered RB points, the full value of the nodes should be 1200 now. 60% of that is 720.

Only the last stack I did would be at 720.

The 2nd to last stack I did I completed my first clear of it 15 mins ago and the last clear 10 mins ago. Well, three mini refresh ticks would be applied and it would be at (1200 * (0.60 + (0.00694 * 3)) = 744 points

The first stack in did I finished my first clear of it 30 mins ago and is now at 769 points.

The numbers are slightly fudged, but you can see the same thing in game - Choose a few stacks worth the same points - grind stack A down some, then grind stack B down the same amount. Stack A will be worht more than stack B.

This also allowed me, as a working guy, to get a 'mini refresh' in when I other wise wouldn't. It was 11-12 and I knew I was getting up @ 6am. By just doing each stack twice, they were fully refenerated by the time I woke up.

Unknown

Last post was enough of a book that I didn't want to bury this question in it.

What I guess I don't really get is exactly HOW effective RB'ing is vs. the grind-core approach.

I think the fundamental theory I'm following is this - I want to avoid being at Max RB'ing for too long. Being at max RB'ing does mean you are losing points. Is this correct?

Past that, I'm trying do figure out where these two people would end up relatively:

1) A guy who grinds hard, hits every node once every 2.5 hours. His 'stack refresh' will be at the max each and every time, but his RB points will be low.

2) A guy who clears once at the start (once/node) and then grinds pretty hard in the last 2 hours. His stacks will only be full once, but he'll be at max RB'ing at the start and for a number of his nodes but his stack multiplier will drop as he clears more and more.

I'm assuming:
1) Both of these guys will end up pretty close to each other points wise - within 10%.
2) Guy #1 would beat guy #2, though Guy #1 had to put in a lot more effort.
3) Guy #2 isn't that far behind guy #1 and could still qualify for good prizes.

Is this accurate?

Unknown

The RB is the standard weak model in recent events so if you do the standard method of wait until the end you'd be hopelessly behind. It just seems RB is strong because people are racking up crazy points by doing missions every 2 hours and 24 minutes. For an event running under the new tighter RB, the points I see right now is actually quite insane.

Unknown

atomzed wrote:

I personally think that it is much worst, because in the past, if you can't play in the final 2 hours, you could still grind some points ahead, and let community scaling prevent players from attempting to catch up in final 2 hours.

This is not the case for the sims (at least for me). It seems that my missions scaling is minimal, and I can grind to top 1st with 3/4 missions. That means that if I don't play in final few hours, i'm screwed, as ANYONE can make up for the deficit in last few hours.

This pve scoring is so different from Sentry PVE... i'm wondering whether they are just experimenting with different scoring systems. I much prefer the Sentry PVE system though....

But that has little to do with the system change, just this pve runs with bigger points and huge RB multiplier. With those values you'd have the same effect on the old system too.

Unknown

morgh wrote:

Tharos wrote:

One "mini-refresh" every 2.5 hours does not mean that you "HAVE TO" play this often. With the rubberbandding in action, whenever you play (2 hours after last clear of 15 hours after, it does not matter) you can go back to #1 if you do a full clear of essential nodes and sometimes one or two battles on the two biggest classic nodes. It worked for me.

Umm not really - if you do not play every 2.5 hours, you "lose" points - if you can get ~3k points every 2.5 hours and you only play once every 12 hours, well then guess what - you have 3k instead of almost 12k... see the difference? it means that since there's a lot of people who seem to be glued to their phones/computers, you either do the same or start lagging behind

Not really, if you play the same amount of games just clumped together you'd get the decreased values, so like 9k instead of the 12k. If there was no rubberband at all. But with RB the difference will be smaller, as at clumped play you're at bigger distance. The precise outcome is certainly dependent on the RB anchor's play.

For those who want to squeeze every single point it indeed may mean some really tight schedule but did you see it happening? In practice way less points get mined and you can catch up to top10 in a number of ways really. Might need to play little more if not on the optimal points and maybe face more levels.

The last 1-2 hours are still crucial, as a zillion points can be created there and those not playing can be overtaken in the subs. Not necessarily by that much in the main.

Those who just aim top 10-20 in subs this refresh method provides way more flexibility to balance their convenient times with point gains in the preparation phase.

Moral

This style would take a lot of stress off me. From the time I get home to the time I leave for work the next day, there just isn't time to do a 12 hour refresh. With the new mechanic, I can grind 3 rotations before bed with all nodes ready for a morning go. Another round at lunch.

I'm not forced to try to schedule my life around a 2 hour optimal play window in the middle of a sub.

daveomite

Many here may think what I'm trying is crazy. But, I already had over 85k before these last two subs started.

I have not played any node in either of these subs yet. Originally, I was just going to wait for the last 12 hour mark before doing clears, but, decided to wait a bit longer as I kept noticing incremental increases.

Now, almost 7 hours remain, and, as an example, sim09 in hard is 2,798. I definitely estimate it's cap is 3k points. Given how much it's been increasing every 5-10 minutes, it's likely it will be in the 2,850- 2,900 range by 6hr mark.

Our alliance has one player over 120k, another over 114k, but both are basically out of any decent point nodes. Given what I see in the nodes between hard/normal, I'm confident 100k is achievable, possibly 120k+. That may be pushing it. But there seems to be at least near 20k of points between the two subs...If you factor in doing at least 2-3 play through's of each essential at least. Then, a slight refresh (to original base) 2.5 hours after the clear.

The biggest issue I'll face is the scaling factor. Just like the points have risen, so has scaling. Nothing insurmountable yet, but nodes like sim05/hard is 128 all, sim09/hard is 108, sim10/hard is 121/122.

Just an FYI if it helps us all figure out this new PvE system and RB setup. I just got to the point that I was more curious in what would happen, than trying to grind my eyeballs out. I share my main bracket with another alliance mate. After Cage Match, he stated he had over 95k in sim, but was 83rd or so. My 85k gave me around 130th, now it's 254th.

Given that, just letting it happen as it happens, and curious to see what I can end up with given where the points are at right now.

daveomite

Just an update. At the 6hr remaining mark, sim09/hard is now 2,889.

Now...I get to have fun clearing and clearing and clearing.... lol