Defy Conquest a case study in base boss design

245

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  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2023

    Let's bring back Heroic Boss Events!

    Oh wait, what happened? Players cried about it until it got taken out for months, and we haven't seen them since last year.

    Being a new 3* player is different from a 5* player imagining themselves being a 3* player again. That explains why you think they wouldn't wipe boss events.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @gamecat235 said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    The side nodes scale to roster, so lower rosters can hit them until the end of the event.
    This is how it is now.

    I have 14 champed 5’s with my highest being a 469 Okoye. I still had two nodes that I could have beat 9 times out of 10 with a 1* team.

    Well yes.
    I'm assuming that is an error and not intentional.
    Because the rest of the nodes wouldn't scale higher for low tier players, either.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2023

    @HoundofShadow said:
    Let's bring back Heroic Boss Events!

    Oh wait, what happened? Players cried about it until it got taken out for months, and we haven't seen them since last year.

    No, no, no. Some players (not me) complained that they used the Dark Avengers, the worst sub-set of out of date 3* pretty much available for a Boss Event that was brutal (later rolled back by the Devs difficulty wise). C'mon Hound - you can do better!

    Oh and Edit: They couldn't bring back what had never existed before. There were no previous Heroic Boss Events. This was the first one. I don't know why they couldn't tweak it or try it again. Maybe ask the Devs?

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Honestly, what did you expect for? Is there a hard boss event designed? Because I didn't realize yet.
    Thanos and galactus are so easy and boring that can be beated without even actually watching the screen.
    On this boss event there is a heroic requisite, plus no characters boosted, and kang has the annoying shield, so he manages to send away someone. It has a bit more of interest to play for me than others.
    And there are the bugged nodes of course, hardly that was intended.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Players like to cry about every difficulty levels. When it's tough, they cry. When it's easy, they cry. Regardless of how the dev design boss events, some groups are going to cry about it. The point is, will you be the one crying about the easy ones or the tough ones? It just so happen that the OP is unhappy about it being easy. Let's be honest, if the OP starts eating healthpacks, he's going to cry about it.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bad said:
    Honestly, what did you expect for? Is there a hard boss event designed? Because I didn't realize yet.
    Thanos and galactus are so easy and boring that can be beated without even actually watching the screen.
    On this boss event there is a heroic requisite, plus no characters boosted, and kang has the annoying shield, so he manages to send away someone. It has a bit more of interest to play for me than others.
    And there are the bugged nodes of course, hardly that was intended.

    Hound is the one who steered this on to difficulty and 3* players. The rest of us have been pretty consistent and @dianetics reasons i.e. when is a Boss Event not a Boss Event seem pretty spot on.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    Players like to cry about every difficulty levels. When it's tough, they cry. When it's easy, they cry. Regardless of how the dev design boss events, some groups are going to cry about it. The point is, will you be the one crying about the easy ones or the tough ones? It just so happen that the OP is unhappy about it being easy. Let's be honest, if the OP starts eating healthpacks, he's going to cry about it.

    Some players, sure.

    Please explain, using the existing context for Boss Events which character in this Boss Event has "Boss" powers? Can you with your hand on your heart say that the Boss fight in this "Boss" Event is any different to what could be served up in a standard PvE node?

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,641 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    Players like to cry about every difficulty levels. When it's tough, they cry. When it's easy, they cry. Regardless of how the dev design boss events, some groups are going to cry about it. The point is, will you be the one crying about the easy ones or the tough ones? It just so happen that the OP is unhappy about it being easy. Let's be honest, if the OP starts eating healthpacks, he's going to cry about it.

    Stop straw manning. I want engaging events. Don’t be a simp for the devs that did no real design for this event and if you were being honest you would agree.

    There was no special or specific mechanic for this event when every other boss event has one.

    You are right I do no like to use health pack … but I use them when they are needed and I see value.
    My favorite boss event was Galactus and when I ran it I used over 30 packs per event. I think there should be a purpose to use them. Not just a PvE/PvP dump.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:

    Hound is the one who steered this on to difficulty and 3* players. The rest of us have been pretty consistent and @dianetics reasons i.e. when is a Boss Event not a Boss Event seem pretty spot on.

    And why is not a boss event? Because there is a team of 3? Being me the one who made a comment of a boss event of a team, I think it's an interesting idea. Why not, if we always are fighting teams?
    Also in the film appears modok so it's thematically based, while in gorr's film only appears him and his minions.
    Also OP makes suggestions that obviously would increase difficulty, so don't say it's not about difficulty neither.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,641 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bad said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    Hound is the one who steered this on to difficulty and 3* players. The rest of us have been pretty consistent and @dianetics reasons i.e. when is a Boss Event not a Boss Event seem pretty spot on.

    And why is not a boss event? Because there is a team of 3? Being me the one who made a comment of a boss event of a team, I think it's an interesting idea. Why not, if we always are fighting teams?
    Also in the film appears modok so it's thematically based, while in gorr's film only appears him and his minions.
    Also OP makes suggestions that obviously would increase difficulty, so don't say it's not about difficulty neither.

    It’s about being a unique event like every other boss event. This is not that and don’t lie and act like it is.

    There is nothing here that makes this event memorable.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bad said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    Hound is the one who steered this on to difficulty and 3* players. The rest of us have been pretty consistent and @dianetics reasons i.e. when is a Boss Event not a Boss Event seem pretty spot on.

    And why is not a boss event? Because there is a team of 3? Being me the one who made a comment of a boss event of a team, I think it's an interesting idea. Why not, if we always are fighting teams?
    Also in the film appears modok so it's thematically based, while in gorr's film only appears him and his minions.
    Also OP makes suggestions that obviously would increase difficulty, so don't say it's not about difficulty neither.

    Because the "Boss" does nothing different to the already released character playable version?

    No problem with fighting teams. Sinister Six has Goblin + goons. Boss Rush (would love a crack at that again). Go nuts. But have it be special or what is the point? Might as well just stick it in a node of Simulator.

    I can't speak for @dianetics but I read this as difficulty very much not being the main basis of his gripes with this thing. Boss Events are meant to be fun diversions, at least to me they are, this is just a PvE node.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think this version of Kang does have some shield gimmick? Maybe?
    A few times I've seen some burst healing.
    But this could be the goon, I dunno.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:
    I think this version of Kang does have some shield gimmick? Maybe?
    A few times I've seen some burst healing.
    But this could be the goon, I dunno.

    Ah right! That changes EVERYTHING! Lol! :D

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    And gargantos or gorr events were so memorable? Just some puching-balls to spare some minutes.
    This kang has the annoying shield and also he hides behind the others when a cd reaches 0.
    If you want something memorable, in here there is a beautiful dawn background.

  • liminal_lad
    liminal_lad Posts: 476 Mover and Shaker

    @Bowgentle said:
    Yes I'm sure this was done on purpose.
    They probably did the non scaling nodes too to help players, right?
    Because they simply make no mistakes!

    Is there a problem with assuming positive intent on the part of the developers?

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bad said:
    And gargantos or gorr events were so memorable? Just some puching-balls to spare some minutes.
    This kang has the annoying shield and also he hides behind the others when a cd reaches 0.
    If you want something memorable, in here there is a beautiful dawn background.

    The mighty Kang the Conqueror hides behind others, lol! You couldn't make it up.

    I had forgotten about Gargantos actually, I will give you that one. Can you post the beautiful dawn background on here for me? I can't access MPQ right now. :(

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    I> @liminal_lad said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    Yes I'm sure this was done on purpose.
    They probably did the non scaling nodes too to help players, right?
    Because they simply make no mistakes!

    Is there a problem with assuming positive intent on the part of the developers?

    Judging by the last few months, I'm leaning towards this being a bug.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2023

    BCS has been interacting with the player base to find out what is and isn't working for us. We were pretty much ignored by Demiurge. Threads like this, where players suggest things that can be improved, are important feedback whether everyone in the playerbase, or the developers for that matter, agrees or not. Rather than the player base 'crying', as though the thoughts here were simply expressed for the sake of complaining.

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