Rewards Imbalance

Enigma
Enigma Posts: 53 Match Maker
edited February 2022 in MtGPQ General Discussion
@Oktagon_Support

So, hypothetically, an event happens and 28 people have perfect scores the entire way through... the way the rewards system works it seems those 28 people will be in First place, and the person who missed one single objective ends up in 29th.

My questions are.. what happens to the second and third tier rewards, do they just disappear?  Does this system seem like a good one to anyone?  Would it be possible to shift to percentile rewards rather than placement?  Or maybe give the 28 people the first tier reward, than the next group the second?  That probably wouldn't work.  I don't know, but the thing seems broken.

I just (unintentionally) advanced to Platinum and while playing the Harvestide event I so far have scored perfectly in each round except one fight which was lost due to a hard crash of the game... I'm currently placed 300+.  That doesn't seem right at all.
«1

Comments

  • Fliggl
    Fliggl Posts: 58 Match Maker
    This is a topic I would like to see some more discussion about...

    Like, at the Matrimonium Event, I missed one single 2-Points node. I have 138 of 140 points and are ranked 194 so far, and the event isn't over yet. Maybe I'll drop to 251+.

    My reward right now will be 2000 Mana and 3 pinkies. For an almost perfect score... 

    Don't know... maybe a little change here would be nice =)
  • Enigma
    Enigma Posts: 53 Match Maker
    Fliggl said:
    This is a topic I would like to see some more discussion about...

    Like, at the Matrimonium Event, I missed one single 2-Points node. I have 138 of 140 points and are ranked 194 so far, and the event isn't over yet. Maybe I'll drop to 251+.
    Yeah, see, this is ridiculous.  140 points for the Matrimonium is a perfect score.  It is not possible to get 139.  138 should reasonably be second place, right?  Not 194+

    Why do they bother to even have rewards for rank 6-25, 26-50, 51-100?  To make us think maybe we can win an extra pack or two and a few more pink or gold crystals when it's only really possible if you score a perfect game against veteran players.
  • Machine
    Machine Posts: 857 Critical Contributor
    Same here. I missed the Disturb objective once. Greg killed himself before I could pull the second guy from the yard the turn after. I am ranked 251+ with 137 points.
  • Fliggl
    Fliggl Posts: 58 Match Maker
    Event ended and I finished with rank 238. Again, with 138 points from 140 max...

    I know that there were lot of other dudettes and dudes, which were better than me, and they earn their reward, sure, but it feels somehow sad, that my reward so so so much weaker... 
  • Bubbles_CS
    Bubbles_CS Posts: 332 Mover and Shaker
    When players suggest they want second-place (or just better) prizes for max-minus-1 points, this is really seeking progression rewards, which we already have. The ask here is really to have progress-based rewards up to and including max score.

    The other issue is that max score is too easy to achieve. If we are going to have rank-based rewards, it makes sense that there is a way to rank players beyond pass/fail, which is almost what we have today. Long, long ago there were no ties and when there was a tie score the first to achieve that score was ranked higher. That was changed because it was decidedly unfair, and instead they now give first-place rewards to 200 players instead of just five or whatever it turns out to be. That seems pretty generous, but also not in the spirit of a ranked competition.

    I don’t have any bright ideas to fix this other than replacing ranked rewards with progress rewards up to max score. Forcing ranks through difficulty or randomness also feels bad so that’s not a good direction either 
  • ambrosio191
    ambrosio191 Posts: 315 Mover and Shaker
    One solution to this is to have brackets of less than 3000 people, like we used to.  The only time we used to have
    3k brackets was when the top reward was 300 jewels and the non rune rewards filtered down to ranks 251-500. 
    Those events were much harder to get 1st place, so less 1st place ties.  Even still there was more rewarded for
    finishing 251 than getting 1st place now.

    Skoti Bloodline is an example of this, although it's not a coalition event.  It's a ranked PVP event with 1000 player
    brackets.  When you miss an objective in this event you dont drop 250 rank, because you are competing against
    1000 players, instead of 3000.  It's also easier to lose objectives in this event, so not as many 1st place ties.
  • Theophilus
    Theophilus Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
    The solution I would like to see explored is to completely do away with ranked rewards. Instead, add levels beyond current progression to reflect higher achievement. These can be considered progression bonuses. A perfect score gets the top bonus. The equivalent to losing one complete match would be the next tier. For those who don't want to increase their play commitment and would rather just hit current progression, leave that in place. 
  • Fliggl
    Fliggl Posts: 58 Match Maker
    Theophilus said:
    The solution I would like to see explored is to completely do away with ranked rewards. Instead, add levels beyond current progression to reflect higher achievement. These can be considered progression bonuses. A perfect score gets the top bonus. The equivalent to losing one complete match would be the next tier. For those who don't want to increase their play commitment and would rather just hit current progression, leave that in place. 
    This sounds not do bad after all... or give away rewards for full progression, then for one node missing and so on.

    Like, when every node gives 5 points, rank one would be X-0. Rank two is X-5, rank three X-10 and so on, where X is the maximum amount of points you can achieve.
  • TomB
    TomB Posts: 269 Mover and Shaker
    I like that idea @Theophilus
    Events really should give rewards based on one or the other (ranking or progression), and progression makes more sense given the need for a perfect score to get a first place payout. I know my participation drops the minute I lose an objective and know I can't have a perfect score. I'll still make progression and maybe a few matches more, but I don't always make time on a Sunday afternoon to log in since there's nothing left to play for, and I'm not in a top coalition. It would be better if there were additional progression levels, with graduated rewards that are worth it (not runes!). You know, then I'd be much more likely to make an effort to find some time to play.
    If you want any more of my life/wallet you're gonna have to pay me for it! B)
  • Enigma
    Enigma Posts: 53 Match Maker
    @Oktagon_Support valid discussion here.
  • Tezzeret
    Tezzeret Posts: 223 Tile Toppler
    This has been the biggest shortcoming of the game since the beginning. 
  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2022
    ambrosio191 said:
    One solution to this is to have brackets of less than 3000 people, like we used to.  The only time we used to have
    3k brackets was when the top reward was 300 jewels and the non rune rewards filtered down to ranks 251-500. 
    Those events were much harder to get 1st place, so less 1st place ties.  Even still there was more rewarded for
    finishing 251 than getting 1st place now.

    Skoti Bloodline is an example of this, although it's not a coalition event.  It's a ranked PVP event with 1000 player
    brackets.  When you miss an objective in this event you dont drop 250 rank, because you are competing against
    1000 players, instead of 3000.  It's also easier to lose objectives in this event, so not as many 1st place ties.

    The issues with charge timers aside, Challenge of the Courts is one of my favorite event designs ever. It has small brackets, solid rewards, fun objectives, and you don't feel like you should quit playing as soon as you lose a single point because sometimes - occasionally - an imperfect score can still T5.
  • Tezzeret
    Tezzeret Posts: 223 Tile Toppler
    Seize the day > every  other event.
    It's the only event (other than coalition events) I legitimately  get pissed about if I lose a point. For this exact bracketing discussion! 
    If I miss  a single point, I just hit progression Than quit.

    I'm sure lots of people do the same of MOST events. From a company perspective its a BAD design stratagy as it diminishes the "active player" pool   during an event. 
  • Asylamb
    Asylamb Posts: 170 Tile Toppler
    People, take it as a life lesson. You have to understand that the life is not fair, and games are even less fair than life. Whenever you lose your top placement because of a bug/lag, it's surely frustrating. Especially because they're "not allowed" to give compensation for more than 1 rank up.
    But once you handle your emotions, you see that the life is beautiful. Until you start playing again.
    *birds chirp*
  • Asylamb
    Asylamb Posts: 170 Tile Toppler
    But also, you ask for individual rankings to become almost the same as progression rewards (in terms of calculation). Why even have the individual ranking then? Just do it like Awakened Inferno or the recent Valentine's Day event - PvP with progression only.
    When there is an individual ranking, you don't go against the game, you go against other players. And if there are 300 players who finished with a perfect score and you did not, why should you place 2nd?
  • Enigma
    Enigma Posts: 53 Match Maker
    edited February 2022
    Asylamb said:
    And if there are 300 players who finished with a perfect score and you did not, why should you place 2nd?
    Because that's a 300-way tie for 1st place, isn't it?  Then logically wouldn't the next available placement be 2nd?
  • BongoTheGrey
    BongoTheGrey Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    edited February 2022
    That's not how it works. The next place after a 300 first place tie is 301. The last Summer Olympics had a first place tie in the male high jump event and the next guy after the tie won bronze medal because he finished third, not second
  • TomB
    TomB Posts: 269 Mover and Shaker
    You guys are missing the point I think. I think Tezz is saying:
    Tezzeret said:
    If I miss  a single point, I just hit progression Than quit.

    I'm sure lots of people do the same of MOST events. From a company perspective its a BAD design stratagy as it diminishes the "active player" pool   during an event. 

    From a company perspective, running it this way results in players playing less. Less players playing is not normally a goal of a company like theirs... ;)
  • BongoTheGrey
    BongoTheGrey Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    Oh no, I 100% agree that it is a bad design and rewards should be reworked. The current system was probably designed several years ago and they thought that there weren't going to be the amount of perfect scores there are today. If not, they wouldn't have created 25-50 place rewards because they know that nobody finishes between 25 and 50 on this game (at least not in platinum). This has been discussed so many times and at least the last Q&A gives me hope that they are working on something since this was one of their answers:

    3- What would be some alternatives to the broken pvp event reward tier system that allows a player who wins every match and misses a single objective to place 250+?  Why are there so many reward tiers if players can't win them?
    Answer: Thank you for the feedback. We know that this topic has come up several times already and there are some ideas, too, but we won't be able to share anything yet.
    They are not able to share anything yet. That's not the "There are no plans so far" answer we have seen to some other questions.

    But they also deserve to be recognized that the way they handle ties is the correct one.
  • Asylamb
    Asylamb Posts: 170 Tile Toppler
    I agree that the current system is not perfect but I also think that what players ask for individual ranking will make it stop being individual ranking.
    Smaller player brackets, wider reward brackets... We can theorisize as much as we can.
    The developpers said they have plans and I don't think they would change them mid-way.
    Be patient to see what they have planned and if you don't like the new way, restart complaining.

Categories