In-canon 5* Character Power Ranking

mdreyer93

I posted this in another thread, but it was way off topic. There was a discussion on how 5* Characters may rank based on their in-canon (comics, movies, etc.) power levels and not based on their MPQ powers. I thought this was really interesting and would be fun to compare how their power levels in the comics compares with how powerful they are in MPQ.

I used the Power Grid from the Marvel wiki: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Database to get each 5* character's power rank (1-7) for the different categories based on the official Marvel handbooks and then added them up to get their total power. For those not familiar, the Power Grid uses the following:

Intelligence: Slow or Impaired (1), Normal (2), Learned (3), Gifted (4), Genius (5), Super-Genius (6), Omniscient (7)
Strength: Weak (1), Normal (2), Peak Human (3), Superhuman 800 lbs - 25 tons (4), Superhuman 25-75 tons (5), Superhuman 75-100 tons (6), Incalculable >100 tons (7)
Speed: Below Normal (1), Normal (2), Superhuman (3), Speed of Sound (4), Supersonic (5), Speed of Light (6), Warp (7)
Durability: Weak (1), Normal (2), Enhanced (3), Regenerative (4), Bulletproof (5), Superhuman (6), Virtually Indestructible (7)
Energy Projection: None (1), On Contact (2), Short Range (3), Medium Range (4), Long Range (5), Multiple Types (6), Virtually Unlimited (7)
Fighting Skills: Poor (1), Normal (2), Some Training (3), Experienced Fighter (4), Master: Single Form of Combat (5), Master: Several Forms of Combat (6), Master: All Forms of Combat (7)

So a perfectly normal/healthy human would have a total of ~11 and max total is 42. Grouping their totals gives you:

36+: GE Doom (38), Odin (38), Knull (37)
31-35: Beta Ray Bill (33), Onslaught (33), Iron Man (33), Apocalypse (33), Thor (32), Thanos (32), Silver Surfer (32)
26-30: Ronan (30), Phoenix Cyclops (30), Phoenix Jean (30), Phoenix Colossus (30), Ultron (30), Hela (29), Sersi (29), Captain Marvel (28), Banner Hulk (28), Loki (28), Mister Sinister (27), Magneto (26)
21-25: Doctor Strange (25), Adam Warlock (25), Immortal Hulk (24), Ghostpool (23), Cable (23), Rescue (23), Carnage (22), Black Panther (21), Iceman (21), Black Bolt (21), Wasp (21), Ghost Rider (21), Green Goblin (21)
16-20: OML (20), Samurai Daken (20), Black Widow (20), Gamora (20), Killmonger (20), Doc Ock (20), Daredevil (19), Spider-Man BiB (19), Spider-Man PP (19), Professor X (19), Yellowjacket (19), Abigail Brand (19), Captain America FA (18), Captain America IW (18), Storm (18), Heimdall (18), Scarlet Witch (18), Havok (18), Big Wheel (18), Shang-Chi (17), Yelena (17), Kitty Pryde (17), Star-Lord (17), Jessica Jones (17), Elektra (17), Hawkeye (16), Kingpin (16), Electro (16)
11-15: Crystal (15), Okoye (15), Archangel (15), Gambit (14)

Poor Gambit. I ignored cases where teleportation bumped a characters speed up to 7 and had to come up with my own for a few (Okoye, combined Phoenix powers w/ Cyke and Colossus, combined GR powers w/ Deadpool, Banner Hulk keeps more intellect than Immortal, etc.) but most characters had a power listing on the wiki. I also didn't distinguish MCU versions from the comics.

I'm sure many will disagree but this is from the horse's mouth. To me some seem too high (Iron Man, Black Widow, Big Wheel) and some too low (Storm, Heimdall, Scarlet Witch, Gambit).

What do you think?

Sekilicious

Okoye may be last on this list but she is #1 in my heart. 

MegaBee

You might have done Archangel dirty. He's not an Omega mutant, but he's no slouch.

fight4thedream

Nice list! I think it's worth pointing out that the Phoenix version of Colossus did not have full access to the Phoenix Force. It was split between the Phoenix Five. If I remember correctly Namor was the first to go down and then Colossus and Magik took each other out. 

So arguably he should be lower than Jean and Cyclops who both wielded the Phoenix Force at full power.

Iron Man is currently wielding god-like power although that's not the version we have in game. And yes, Scarlet Witch, Archangel and Gambit are too low. 

Immortal Hulk is actually tricky since he was running with multiple personalities and arguably his Devil Hulk persona is his most dangerous during that comic run. 

Nonetheless, fun stuff to think about!

acescracked

I stopped reading when I got to the power grid and realized I'd have 6 points. 😔

MegaBee

acescracked said:

I stopped reading when I got to the power grid and realized I'd have 6 points. 😔

As long as you don't put on a costume and go out trying to fight crime, I think you'll be fine.

mdreyer93

fight4thedream said:

Nice list! I think it's worth pointing out that the Phoenix version of Colossus did not have full access to the Phoenix Force. It was split between the Phoenix Five. If I remember correctly Namor was the first to go down and then Colossus and Magik took each other out. 

So arguably he should be lower than Jean and Cyclops who both wielded the Phoenix Force at full power.

Iron Man is currently wielding god-like power although that's not the version we have in game. And yes, Scarlet Witch, Archangel and Gambit are too low. 

Immortal Hulk is actually tricky since he was running with multiple personalities and arguably his Devil Hulk persona is his most dangerous during that comic run. 

Nonetheless, fun stuff to think about!

Good point about Colossus, thanks! I haven't read that comic run yet so didn't know the specifics. In the database, Phoenix powers appears to boost Speed, Durability, and Energy Projection to 7 but doesn't affect Intelligence, Strength, and Fighting Ability, so if I drop those three down to 6s for Colossus, it'd put him at 30. Still equal to Jean and Scott but mostly because his Strength is still a 6.

The breakdown (Int/Str/Spd/D/E/F) for Scarlet Witch, Archangel, and Gambit on the Power Grid are:
Scarlet Witch: 3/2/2/2/6/3
Archangel: 3/2/3/2/1/4
Gambit: 2/2/2/2/2/4

I feel like you could argue Switch's Energy Projection could be a 7 and her speed and durability could be bumped up a bit due to her powers?
Archangel strength should be a 3 (he can lift 500 lbs, which is more than double his weight but still less than 800), his Spd should be 4 (w/ his techno-organic wings he can reach Mach1), and his Durability should be at least a 3 since he has a mild regenerative healing factor.
Gambit's speed could probably be a 3, his fighting maybe a 6 since he is a master of Savate and Bojutsu, and his energy projection is strange, since he does technically energize things on contact, but then can throw them at least short range. 

DAZ0273

acescracked said:

I stopped reading when I got to the power grid and realized I'd have 6 points. 😔

Did you forget about any energy projection powers you might have? I would count "throwing something at the cat" as a level 3 at least.

bbigler

DAZ0273 said:

acescracked said:

I stopped reading when I got to the power grid and realized I'd have 6 points. 😔

Did you forget about any energy projection powers you might have? I would count "throwing something at the cat" as a level 3 at least.

My energy projection powers have maxed as a father. I simply need to strongly say my child’s name and they will stop what they’re doing.  By mere words, I can control their actions. It’s a low level telekinesis. 

MegaBee

Definitely don't stat yourself or your friends up and try to do an RPG where you're playing yourselves with superpowers. That tends to go poorly...

DAZ0273

bbigler said:

DAZ0273 said:

acescracked said:

I stopped reading when I got to the power grid and realized I'd have 6 points. 😔

Did you forget about any energy projection powers you might have? I would count "throwing something at the cat" as a level 3 at least.

My energy projection powers have maxed as a father. I simply need to strongly say my child’s name and they will stop what they’re doing.  By mere words, I can control their actions. It’s a low level telekinesis. 

Yes although my youngest is more of a super villain so getting his attention can be a bad thing. I do have precognitive powers now - for example I can accurately predict the answer to questions like "Have you started your homework yet?" with amazing clarity.

Akoni

DAZ0273 said:

acescracked said:

I stopped reading when I got to the power grid and realized I'd have 6 points. 😔

Did you forget about any energy projection powers you might have? I would count "throwing something at the cat" as a level 3 at least.

Throwing the cat itself gives you a damage boost, but may be labeled animal cruelty. Unless it's Chewie.

Jacklag

31-35: Beta Ray Bill (33), Onslaught (33), Iron Man (33), Apocalypse (33), Thor (32), Thanos (32), Silver Surfer (32)


What do you think?

Onlaught took on the entire Marvel roster by himself, including the Fantastic Four, most of the X-Men and the Avengers, including Thor and the Hulk. I think Doctor Strange was there too.

So, the logic doesn't seem to add up here.

The Phoenix Five also did quick work of the Avengers, Fantastic Four and New Avenger's combined. Só pretty sure 5clops and Colossus would be pretty high on the list

Jacklag

Simply adding all statistics together is not an appropriate strategy, I think. The scales are clearly different. The most skilled fighter in the Marvel universe is useless against the most basic speedster. And how much Intelligence translate to power is debatable. Tony Stark used his great intellect to create an invention that boost his Strength, Resilience, Speed and Energy Projection. Is it fair that he gets additional points for all of those? Doesn't that mean any character with similar intelligence could do the same? 

DAZ0273

Akoni said:

DAZ0273 said:

acescracked said:

I stopped reading when I got to the power grid and realized I'd have 6 points. 😔

Did you forget about any energy projection powers you might have? I would count "throwing something at the cat" as a level 3 at least.

Throwing the cat itself gives you a damage boost, but may be labeled animal cruelty. Unless it's Chewie.

If you throw the cat at the dog then you either get a team up boost or a large Vets bill.

Captain_Trips88

DAZ0273 said:

Akoni said:

DAZ0273 said:

acescracked said:

I stopped reading when I got to the power grid and realized I'd have 6 points. 😔

Did you forget about any energy projection powers you might have? I would count "throwing something at the cat" as a level 3 at least.

Throwing the cat itself gives you a damage boost, but may be labeled animal cruelty. Unless it's Chewie.

If you throw the cat at the dog then you either get a team up boost or a large Vets bill.

Ah, the old 'furball special' move 

Akoni

Jacklag said:

Simply adding all statistics together is not an appropriate strategy, I think. The scales are clearly different. The most skilled fighter in the Marvel universe is useless against the most basic speedster. And how much Intelligence translate to power is debatable. Tony Stark used his great intellect to create an invention that boost his Strength, Resilience, Speed and Energy Projection. Is it fair that he gets additional points for all of those? Doesn't that mean any character with similar intelligence could do the same? 

This is a good point. Shang-Chi is regarded as one of the top fighters on Earth, however, he stands almost no chance against the Hulk or Quicksilver. Wolverine stands a chance because of his weapons and healing factor. To throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing, Shang-Chi can defeat Wolverine in a fight even with Wolverine's adamantium claws. So, if the Hulk can beat Shang-Chi, Shang-Chi can beat Wolverine, and Wolverine can go toe-to-toe with the Hulk, how do you rank them?

As far as Iron Man goes, if you take away Stark's suit, he'll just put on or build another one. If you take away his intelligence, then he's screwed. For this reason, he should only be given points for his intelligence. This goes for a lot of other characters too. Most characters have secondary benefits from their powers. Johnny Storm's power is not flight, but pyrogenesis. His flight is simply a result of thrust, which is just throwing a lot of fire in one direction to go the opposite way. I'm not sure that it would be right to give credit for side effects. Maybe half points?

mdreyer93

Edited to add:

Abigail Brand: (19) - 3/2/2/4/2/6
Elektra (17) - 3/2/2/3/1/6
Crystal (15) - 2/2/2/2/4/3

MegaBee

mdreyer93 said:

Edited to add:

Abigail Brand: (19) - 3/2/2/4/2/6
Elektra (17) - 3/2/2/3/1/6
Crystal (15) - 2/2/2/2/4/3

A power ranking system that puts Crystal lower than Elektra has some bugs to work out IMO.

DAZ0273

MegaBee said:

mdreyer93 said:

Edited to add:

Abigail Brand: (19) - 3/2/2/4/2/6
Elektra (17) - 3/2/2/3/1/6
Crystal (15) - 2/2/2/2/4/3

A power ranking system that puts Crystal lower than Elektra has some bugs to work out IMO.

Not to mention when Kilmonger ranks higher than Scarlet Witch and Havok and Gamora outranks Storm and actual god, Heimdall!

mdreyer93

MegaBee said:

mdreyer93 said:

Edited to add:

Abigail Brand: (19) - 3/2/2/4/2/6
Elektra (17) - 3/2/2/3/1/6
Crystal (15) - 2/2/2/2/4/3

A power ranking system that puts Crystal lower than Elektra has some bugs to work out IMO.

I agree it has some issues. What do you suggest? Maybe apply a weighting factor to the different Power Grid categories? How would you weight the different categories? Based on some of the discussions here, folks seem to think Fighting Skill get too much weight so maybe that stays at a factor of 1 and others, like Energy Projection, get a higher factor (2x?). BTW, Heimdall's energy projection is 1.

How would you rank the importance of the categories? Is it more important to be omniscient or lift over 100 tons? To travel at warp speed or have virtually unlimited energy projection?

Intelligence: Slow or Impaired (1) to Omniscient (7)
Strength: Weak (1) to Incalculable >100 tons (7)
Speed: Below Normal (1) to Warp (7)
Durability: Weak (1) to Virtually Indestructible (7)
Energy Projection: None (1) to Virtually Unlimited (7)
Fighting Skills: Poor (1) to Master: All Forms of Combat (7)